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What Exactly Is "Fast" - Page 4

post #91 of 116

It seems to me that there's a proper place for both the objective and subjective measurement of speed. The velocity at which I can maintain control has gone up drastically since I started, but in a real way my subjective sense of 9/10ths hasn't changed all that much.

 

I have no idea how fast I've gone, and I'm not sure I care all that much except as a measure of my improvement in skills. To me the exitement is about the sum total of acceleration, how quickly things appear to be moving past me, and how far I had to stretch myself to get there. That's all gonna depend on where I'm skiing that day.

 

If I'm adrenaline rushing at the bottom of the run then it was fast.

post #92 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

 

One of the fastest runs I've ever been on is a lonnnnnng blue run at Keystone.  Its not very steep, but long and shallow can really put you in a false sense of safety when you gradually pick up speed, and (sad to say) can be more dangerous because of those you encounter and the false sense of security.

 

 

 


 

Keystone has some great* places to go fast.  I think the fastest times I have skied have all been at Keystone, either over on Go Devil or back near the Montezuma lift. Always on a weekday in off-peak season, obviously, but you can really fly there. 

 

* "great" meaning don't do something dumb, like open it up on a weekend. People are always dying at Keystone, it seems ... 

 

  

 

post #93 of 116

Speeds of +60 mph are possible in ski clothing on Intermediate slopes when snow conditions are hard on 180 cm skis by seniors.redface.gif

post #94 of 116

For me I'd rather be rocking 25-30 mph on a SL ski digging trenches & grazing alternating hips into the hill than 70 on a SG board.  I don't think I like fast as much as I prefer quick.....

post #95 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

It's exactly the point of the post. what does 69 look like, feel like, need to occur?



Quote:
Originally Posted by prickly View Post

Should be the point of any good post. Perhaps not on this forum, but still.

 



But why? Are we talking about they eye of the beholder? No, then in my very humble opinion, what 69 feels like is much more important than how it looks and that picture proves the point.

 

post #96 of 116

Prickly's comment is tongue in cheek, a reference to a reversed position with good alignment. I just walked into it, as did you, apparently there are forums for that content, you know: gear, technique, professional instruction. roflmao.gif

 

to the point, I guess 69mph can be attained on a 10* slope, according to the guys who should know. I didn't think so. not to dispute what anyone is alleging, just opinion.

post #97 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

 a reference to a reversed position with good alignment.

ROTF.gif

post #98 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

For me I'd rather be rocking 25-30 mph on a SL ski digging trenches & grazing alternating hips into the hill than 70 on a SG board.  I don't think I like fast as much as I prefer quick.....



It's a cycle.  First you want to go 70 mph, then you want to lock into alternating turns with you hips (and as much of everything else as possible) almost touching down, then you want to lock into alternating 70 mph turns with your hips (and as much of everything else) almost touching the ground, then same thing on more consequential terrain, closer to hard objects.  Speed, turns, controlling g-force, it's all about the sensation of power and control.

post #99 of 116

Does anybody feel like they are hauling ass when on a commercial jet 30,000 feet in the sky?  I surely don't... I'm pretty sure I have slept on flights, while going 550.  Now, I could never sleep banking 35 mph turns on a groomer.

 

 

Also, acceleration is important.  G-forces are important.  Compressions, roll-overs, lateral g's, etc.

post #100 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

 

Keystone has some great* places to go fast.  I think the fastest times I have skied have all been at Keystone, either over on Go Devil or back near the Montezuma lift. Always on a weekday in off-peak season, obviously, but you can really fly there. 

 

* "great" meaning don't do something dumb, like open it up on a weekend. People are always dying at Keystone, it seems ... 

 

  

 

Exactly!

And.....to add to that....

After you've skied the day in the Outback, on more technical terrain, heading back to the parking lot(or bar) on those amazingly long easy groomers makes it seem easy.  Not a good recipe for safety, especially on fatigued legs.

But, yeah!  Righteous Rippin!  
 

 

post #101 of 116

 

Anyone using handwings instead of poles like that guy in Utah?

post #102 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

Anyone using handwings instead of poles like that guy in Utah?



that guy in utah is kinda of lame.

 

He skis at snowbird and Hates powder.

 

not to mention that his wing give him lift and not downforce., I think downforce would make sense for maching groomers like his is doing.

post #103 of 116

Speed Skiing NIGHT league in the mid 80s taught me a few things about going fast! Things i learned you don't do at speed.  The snow groomers would start grooming the hill about 4pm and we would make our 1st warm up about 6-630 depending how cold it got (i think it was a safety issue). The 1st warm up run would start 1/2 way down the hill and speeds would be 60-70 mph, each run would start higher and be faster.  Don't blink at night at speed, I don't know how far i would travel with my eyes closed but it was not cool. Duck tape on my goggles would keep my eyes from watering (see blinking). If i stood up too soon or too quickly out of my tuck ( think of ski jumpers that get into the iron cross position after they land), it felt like someone had push me in the chest backwards and my skis would get light. I later thought of a drag boat flipping backwards. If i stayed in my tuck too long i might run into a ruff or as one person, a snow blower. Once (only once) at high speed  i thew my skis into a hockey stop as all racers do at the end of a race and i my skis skipped off the snow somewhere from 5-10 feet each time they touched down. Skiing sideways was gnarly! And any downhillers here ever race on a sunny day and ski into the shade then back into the sun again. I think of gambling all morning  in Vegas and walking outside in the sunshine at 6 a.m. without sunglasses. My belief is going fast is easy and each person knows whats fast to that individual was but knowing how to stop teaches you how to respect WHATS fast!

post #104 of 116



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

For me I'd rather be rocking 25-30 mph on a SL ski digging trenches & grazing alternating hips into the hill than 70 on a SG board.  I don't think I like fast as much as I prefer quick.....


I am so much more into digging trenches now as well....

 

In my youth I once was clocked at 66 on radar, around 55 on a snowy road behind a truck and almost 60 behind a snow machine. However I have gone way faster many other times without a way to clock it. All this makes me remember skiing Outer Limits at Killington on SG skis after a fresh groom in a GS suit. The problem is when you (slow down) you are still going way to fast it just doesn't seem it, like into the lift line and you still doing like 20+mph!


 

 

post #105 of 116

It's not down to that simple duality. such a wide range of ways to go fast, many (most)  having nothing to do with racing gear or 70mph. 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

For me I'd rather be rocking 25-30 mph on a SL ski digging trenches & grazing alternating hips into the hill than 70 on a SG board.  I don't think I like fast as much as I prefer quick.....



 


Edited by davluri - 10/6/11 at 8:49pm
post #106 of 116


 

If we look at it as a continuum defined by two extreme points, irip gives us a fairly broad spectrum in between the two to play in.

 

The SL is snow interaction with an extremely high level of skier input based on high speed mental awareness, the SG is snow interaction with a measured level of skier input that is dependent on high speed mental awareness.

 

Do you have a fun point that can be technically described as fast, that cannot be said to fit between irip's  two points?    Other than speed skiing, I can't say I do.     Maybe you're a good bumper, but that fits over by the SL side of the spectrum.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

It's not down to that simple duality. such a wide range of ways to go fast, many (most)  having nothing to do with racing gear or 70mph.  

 



 

post #107 of 116

skiing large sections of the mountain with a continuous progress that takes all the transitions and terrain with a variety of turns, jumps, and straight-lines in a fast, flowing run. that's the fast I enjoy. playing with the potential energy a mountain holds: a chairlift or hike loads, a skier releases. (gravity)yahoo.gifI could think about fast all day!

post #108 of 116

Unless you are in an actual race.... fast is whatever the skier thinks is fastth_dunno-1[1].gif

post #109 of 116

that's true because we all live in our own reality.

 

Given the subjectivity of all perception, we could talk about what skis we believe are good for going fast in an off piste scenario, or what performance characteristics make a good fast ski.

 

I think the Legend Pro is a hecka' fast cruiser, far and away the fastest ski I have ever owned for soft packed and cut fresh snow.

 

And on a powder day, I see guys on the Kuro absolutely ripping big untracked lines. (just the ski I noticed some friends on, and my S S Huge are no slackers )

post #110 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

skiing large sections of the mountain with a continuous progress that takes all the transitions and terrain with a variety of turns, jumps, and straight-lines in a fast, flowing run. that's the fast I enjoy. playing with the potential energy a mountain holds: a chairlift or hike loads, a skier releases. (gravity)yahoo.gifI could think about fast all day!



Tactical thinking at GS speeds.   OK.

 

 I could think about fast all day too, but its not work safe.

post #111 of 116


that's exactly right; couldn't have expressed it more succinctly myself. and didn't. all day, all mountain fast.  fun you can live with all season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

Tactical thinking at GS speeds.   OK.

 

 I could think about fast all day too, but its not work safe.


 

 

post #112 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by cantunamunch View Post

 

Anyone using handwings instead of poles like that guy in Utah?



I don't know what those are, but lots of folks are losing the poles these days.  I lost mine a few years ago, and never found them again.

post #113 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralVortex View Post

A couple of recent posts and other conversations I've had got me thinking about what it means when people say they ski "fast."

 

For example, a friend who is a relative newbie says he's a bit of a spead freak and likes to go fast, but his "fast" is nowhere near my cruising speed, which to me feels comfortable and controlled. My "fast" would probably scare the living sh*t out of him, but it wouldn't cause any problems for a proper gate crasher, whose idea of "fast" would make me a bit nervous to say the least.

 

So given that "fast" means different speeds (in terms of mph or kph) to different people, when people say they ski fast (or like the exhileration of speed), does it really mean that they ski on, or over, the edge of control? When you hear people say they like to ski fast, do you get the impression that, regardless of whether or not they actually ski faster than you, they are likely to be a bit out of control much of the time? Do you get a bit put off by people who seem a little too interested in using GPS to record their speeds?



Skiing fast means you are skiing faster than the flow.  You are passing everyone.  This can be done at 20 mph in a slow skiing zone.  You might need to do around 50 mph on another non-ski-slow place.  So it's always relative, and there is always someone faster.  As for the GPS deal, I think it's a cool, and fun thing to check out.

 

post #114 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacques View Post

I don't know what those are, but lots of folks are losing the poles these days.  I lost mine a few years ago, and never found them again.



mogul skier with out poles yeah?

post #115 of 116

I rarely see anyone skiing moguls without poles.  I think it's even rarer than snowboarders doing moguls.  The last time I spent a day lapping moguls, I wasn't using poles (due to a thumb injury).   I've tried to do another training session in the bumps a few times since then, but due to lack of snow most days I've been afraid to ruin my skis on the gravel between the bumps so cut it short each time after one run.  BTW, I suck at mogul skiing.

post #116 of 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

mogul skier with out poles yeah?



I hate moguls.  Thank god we don't get many at Bachelor.  (I'm too old for all that work, and pounding!)   It snows enough to fill that stuff in.   Super chopped up stuff on a steep is much hader without poles, but I can do it.  Give me virgin pow, or a groomer!    When I do my filming I'm holding a camera, so poles just don't work there.  All the folks who do blocking for Oregon Adaptive Sports do not use poles.  Look for a video this season.  I'll give my cam to somebody to film me. 

 

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