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Section 8 ski school-Who are these guys? I like 'em. - Page 2

post #31 of 46

I will be going to Austria in a few weeks for a little pre-season warm up clinic on the Hintertux Glacier.... Will try to get a video or two done then, although I'm guessing there won't be much in the way of steep terrain open in October. Once winter hits over here perhaps we could do a steeps progression of sorts.

 

...oh and I'll be sure to wear an extra thick toque to protect my noggin!

post #32 of 46

Sounds good so glad you are sticking around....  despite the helmet-gate........

post #33 of 46

Thanks, I rarely look at that section due to the constant bickering but I do value what Bob has to offer and we actually worked a bit on this at an ESA.   One complaint:  no link?  I have to go and search now???  biggrin.gif

 

Bush, you are correct on all counts but it's a tool I don't have and need to add to the toolbox. so when it's needed, it's the best..  icon14.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILOJ View Post

Finndog...Go to the following thread posted in Ski Instructing and Coaching, and there's a vid clip by Bob Barnes on backpedaling

 

 

Best Bump Technique: Backpedaling?



 

post #34 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post

Thanks, I rarely look at that section due to the constant bickering but I do value what Bob has to offer and we actually worked a bit on this at an ESA.   One complaint:  no link?  I have to go and search now???  biggrin.gif

 

Bush, you are correct on all counts but it's a tool I don't have and need to add to the toolbox. so when it's needed, it's the best..  icon14.gif
 



 

Why would a skier make any moves backwards?

 

Keep moving downhill so the backpedaling is a move backwards. Just reach for the snow with the tips of the ski 1st. This will also load the ski as the tip comes back on the snow.
 

 

post #35 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post



Why would a skier make any moves backwards?

 

Keep moving downhill so the backpedaling is a move backwards. Just reach for the snow with the tips of the ski 1st. This will also load the ski as the tip comes back on the snow.
 

 


its not a move backwards but you delay the movement of yuur feet forwards so that your tips can be pressured. You then delay the movement of your upper body so you can absorb the bump better and then repeat. The motion looks like back pedaling from the side but in reality nothing is ever moving backwards.

 

 

 

post #36 of 46

that's the movement!  I can foresee lots of bruises early in the season.......

post #37 of 46
Backpedaling is more a frame of reference issue to me vs right or wrong.

From the frame of reference of the CoM, the feet move fore/aft below it (Bob's stickman.) From the frame of reference of the feet, the CoM moves fore/aft above them.

From the frame of reference of an observer watching the skier, most times all parts of the skier continue moving forward, just at different rates - sometimes the feet are moving faster than the body and sometimes slower. I say most times because you will see the feet stop, and a skilled skier could actually pull them back if necessary or for demonstration purposes.

You may prefer one frame of reference, but that does not mean that other frames of reference are wrong. They may be helpful to other skiers even if they don't resound with you.



Something for Finndog to ponder: Backpedaling happens in all turns wink.gif


Best,

Chris
post #38 of 46

Thanks much Chris. I appreciate that.  I worked on this movement on gs and srt with Bob. I have not taken this into the bumps but its actually something I will work on this season.

post #39 of 46
post #40 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




although I to agree he shoudl be wearing a helmet, those are not glades. Its not even tree skiing when there are 30 foot gaps to the next tree.

 

Trying to shoot a side or top angle in super tight trees doesn't make for a good demo video, I suspect.    
 

 

post #41 of 46

Okay, I can't resist...

 

Pedaling the bike backwards is just the method used to convey a movement with the legs... be careful not too confuse teaching methodology with actual technique. In skiing you can move fore/aft with a bazzillion different combinations of joint movements but because we have a nice slippery surface underneath our feet, and our legs have much less mass than our upper bodies, it is often quicker and easier to maintain balance by moving the feet back and forth under the body rather than moving our entire upper body back and forth over our feet by muscular force.

 

There is no doubt what so ever that you need to make fore/aft adjustments in the bumps. If your mass has momentum down the hill and your feet are about to hit an object that will slow them down, then it only makes sense that your base of support has to be slightly ahead of the center of mass in order to support it... the more momentum and the more the slowing action, the more the BOS needs to be ahead. These are basic physical principals that are clearly seen in any world cup bump skier. Of course then you need to be sure to pull the feet back underneath you (or in reality allow the momentum of your COM to carry through past your BOS) before going down the back side of the bump if you do not want to end up on your back. (I believe that last bit is the point CVJ is trying to make.)

 

The analogy of pedaling the bike backwards just combines this fore/aft movement with the vertical flexion/extension movements required to absorb the bumps.

 

I should get back to work now.

post #42 of 46

thanks!  you know i am lazy...
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

Finndog: here's that link. http://www.epicski.com/t/43973/best-bump-technique-backpedaling



i am honored....  thanks!  



Quote:
Originally Posted by skinerd View Post

Okay, I can't resist...

 

Pedaling the bike backwards is just the method used to convey a movement with the legs... be careful not too confuse teaching methodology with actual technique. In skiing you can move fore/aft with a bazzillion different combinations of joint movements but because we have a nice slippery surface underneath our feet, and our legs have much less mass than our upper bodies, it is often quicker and easier to maintain balance by moving the feet back and forth under the body rather than moving our entire upper body back and forth over our feet by muscular force.

 

There is no doubt what so ever that you need to make fore/aft adjustments in the bumps. If your mass has momentum down the hill and your feet are about to hit an object that will slow them down, then it only makes sense that your base of support has to be slightly ahead of the center of mass in order to support it... the more momentum and the more the slowing action, the more the BOS needs to be ahead. These are basic physical principals that are clearly seen in any world cup bump skier. Of course then you need to be sure to pull the feet back underneath you (or in reality allow the momentum of your COM to carry through past your BOS) before going down the back side of the bump if you do not want to end up on your back. (I believe that last bit is the point CVJ is trying to make.)

 

The analogy of pedaling the bike backwards just combines this fore/aft movement with the vertical flexion/extension movements required to absorb the bumps.

 

I should get back to work now.



 

post #43 of 46

I have a question. This seems to be a good example of a "here's a tip, now watch this" -style of ski instruction. It might just be because it's an internet video and the internet is more conducive to watching sick skiing than it is to technical talk.  But sometimes I find myself falling into the same trap of, "I know that I'm a good skier, and I want to show the student how to do it like I would, but just ripping the #$%* out of this and looking cool just isn't going to cut it."

 

I know that everyone likes to look awesome and impress everyone all the time.  I just wish that the videos were more like "Here's one thing I'm doing to ski like this.  And here are a bunch of different ways to feel that sensation: (a) backpedaling (b) lifting your legs off the snow (c) hang from a pull up bar and pick your legs up (d) hang from a pull up bar and have someone push your legs up (e) etc. etc. etc.

 

I know it's hard in a short little internet segment to get that kind of detail, but I just thought it would have been more helpful.

post #44 of 46

mattchuck2,

Your points are very valid but please remember that this is not a student centered learning environment. It is a quick tip. Too much information will make it less valuble. I see far to many instructors that try to impress people by talking all day. These clips are an excelent balance of just the right amount of information, demonstration and review. It sure make me want to take a class from him.

post #45 of 46
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredBroker View Post

mattchuck2,

Your points are very valid but please remember that this is not a student centered learning environment. It is a quick tip. Too much information will make it less valuble. I see far to many instructors that try to impress people by talking all day. These clips are an excelent balance of just the right amount of information, demonstration and review. It sure make me want to take a class from him.



I agree with BoredBoker

 

post #46 of 46

Very nice video, and very succinct comments (may I say, typical Canadian understatement?).

And, unusually for a technique video posted on Epic, no one dumped on it. Well, almost. 

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