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One ski quiver for Jay Peak?

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 
Hi everyone
 
I've been reading the forums a lot over the last little while hoping to find the "perfect" ski for Jay Peak. I skied a Sultan 85 (165) last season, and although I really liked the light playfullness of the ski, felt it a bit lacking when the season really got going. I'm probably a level 7-ish skier, willing to ski anywhere and anything at Jay, and although it's not always pretty I spend most of my time in the trees and bumps. I'm 5'7", 145 lbs.
 
I'm looking at something like the Rossi S3 or Blizzard The One as a replacement for the Sultan, but I'm not sure if I'll hate them when there's not much fresh snow or if I'll be giving up too much groomed capability in exchange for better performance in the trees and bumps. I know there's no 1 perfect ski, and ideally I'd keep the Sultan for early season and/or if Jay doesn't get the same amount of snow as last year, and get something else for more snow days, but I thought I'd ask the forum if I would be doing good to look at a 95-100mm ski as a one ski quiver for Jay. My order of preference would be a nimble, flexible and fun ski for trees and bumps, and then something that won't kill me if the snow is hard (or missing smile.gif )
 
Many thanks in advance
post #2 of 28

While each of those choices would be fine, I do think the Bonafide would be a better choice along because it will have an edge so to speak in hard snow performance and still be a blast in Jay's trees. I would also suggest the Fischer Watea 98 over the S98.

 

1. Blizzard bonafide

2. Blizzard One

3. Fischer Watea 98

4. Rossi S3

5. Nordica Helen Bach

post #3 of 28

Kastle MX98 and FX104 are worth a look too.

post #4 of 28

 

Phil, 

 

I'd welcome your input into why you would suggest the bonafide over the bushwacker and the hell and back over the steadfast.  Having not yet tried the blizzards for this year, I would have personally picked the hell and back for this type of situation out west.  But, given the increased snow variability in the east, I probably would have been inclined to go with the steadfast in Northern Vermont, and certainly elsewhere in the state.  And, while I recognize the bushwacker has less metal, I would have thought the same type of logic would apply to the two blizzard options.  Would you explain your thinking for these two 98 choices as opposed to the two 88 choices for the one ski quiver at Jay, which I would assume would also be similar to the analysis at Stowe, etc.?  I'd appreciate understanding your thinking on this.  Thanks much.

 

Smiles


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

While each of those choices would be fine, I do think the Bonafide would be a better choice along because it will have an edge so to speak in hard snow performance and still be a blast in Jay's trees. I would also suggest the Fischer Watea 98 over the S98.

 

1. Blizzard bonafide

2. Blizzard One

3. Fischer Watea 98

4. Rossi S3

5. Nordica Helen Bach



 

post #5 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSmiles View Post

 

Phil, 

 

I'd welcome your input into why you would suggest the bonafide over the bushwacker and the hell and back over the steadfast.  Having not yet tried the blizzards for this year, I would have personally picked the hell and back for this type of situation out west.  But, given the increased snow variability in the east, I probably would have been inclined to go with the steadfast in Northern Vermont, and certainly elsewhere in the state.  And, while I recognize the bushwacker has less metal, I would have thought the same type of logic would apply to the two blizzard options.  Would you explain your thinking for these two 98 choices as opposed to the two 88 choices for the one ski quiver at Jay, which I would assume would also be similar to the analysis at Stowe, etc.?  I'd appreciate understanding your thinking on this.  Thanks much.

 

Smiles

 


I used the Bonafide and Hell N Back since both were 98 underfoot and your two main choices were also 98 and you were looking to stay 95-100mm. You could go with the Bush and Steadfast for sure, two more great choices and then I would put in a Kastle in the mix with the FX94. 

 

post #6 of 28

I was just axed a similar question. Not much effort on my part in getting the answer.  Thank You

post #7 of 28

Phil,

 

Thanks for responding.   I know you get slammed with requests for explanations, but I'm hoping you can indulge me with at least a short one.  I would like to understand when you would suggest the Bonafide vs. the Bushwacker or the Hell & Back vs the Steadfast?  Or, had Bachus not come up with a width range, would you generally suggest the narrower width choices for Northern Vermont for the type of skiing that Bachus indicated?  I would also welcome input from others who have skied these pairs (Bonafide/Bushwacker and Hell&Back/Steadfast).  I'm not trying to hijack Bachus' thread, but I think (hope?) this is on topic enough.  Thanks again.

 

Smile
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post




I used the Bonafide and Hell N Back since both were 98 underfoot and your two main choices were also 98 and you were looking to stay 95-100mm. You could go with the Bush and Steadfast for sure, two more great choices and then I would put in a Kastle in the mix with the FX94. 

 



 

post #8 of 28
Thread Starter 


Not a hijack...that's part of my dilemma, is do I stick with the Sultan 85, and eventually get a 2nd wider ski, or do I get one of the above in the 95-100 range right now that could cover all my bases.

 

Thanks for the responses so far!

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSmiles View Post

Phil,

 

Thanks for responding.   I know you get slammed with requests for explanations, but I'm hoping you can indulge me with at least a short one.  I would like to understand when you would suggest the Bonafide vs. the Bushwacker or the Hell & Back vs the Steadfast?  Or, had Bachus not come up with a width range, would you generally suggest the narrower width choices for Northern Vermont for the type of skiing that Bachus indicated?  I would also welcome input from others who have skied these pairs (Bonafide/Bushwacker and Hell&Back/Steadfast).  I'm not trying to hijack Bachus' thread, but I think (hope?) this is on topic enough.  Thanks again.

 

Smile
 



 



 

post #9 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacchus View Post

Hi everyone
 
I've been reading the forums a lot over the last little while hoping to find the "perfect" ski for Jay Peak. I skied a Sultan 85 (165) last season, and although I really liked the light playfullness of the ski, felt it a bit lacking when the season really got going. I'm probably a level 7-ish skier, willing to ski anywhere and anything at Jay, and although it's not always pretty I spend most of my time in the trees and bumps. I'm 5'7", 145 lbs.
 
I'm looking at something like the Rossi S3 or Blizzard The One as a replacement for the Sultan, but I'm not sure if I'll hate them when there's not much fresh snow or if I'll be giving up too much groomed capability in exchange for better performance in the trees and bumps. I know there's no 1 perfect ski, and ideally I'd keep the Sultan for early season and/or if Jay doesn't get the same amount of snow as last year, and get something else for more snow days, but I thought I'd ask the forum if I would be doing good to look at a 95-100mm ski as a one ski quiver for Jay. My order of preference would be a nimble, flexible and fun ski for trees and bumps, and then something that won't kill me if the snow is hard (or missing smile.gif )
 
Many thanks in advance


 



Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSmiles View Post

Phil,

 

Thanks for responding.   I know you get slammed with requests for explanations, but I'm hoping you can indulge me with at least a short one.  I would like to understand when you would suggest the Bonafide vs. the Bushwacker or the Hell & Back vs the Steadfast?  Or, had Bachus not come up with a width range, would you generally suggest the narrower width choices for Northern Vermont for the type of skiing that Bachus indicated?  I would also welcome input from others who have skied these pairs (Bonafide/Bushwacker and Hell&Back/Steadfast).  I'm not trying to hijack Bachus' thread, but I think (hope?) this is on topic enough.  Thanks again.

 

Smile
 



Because the O.P. was looking for a ski between 95-100.mm and specifically at skis "like"  two specifically skis 98mm underfoot. 

post #10 of 28


Phil,  

 

I think we might have a misunderstanding here.  I was trying to understand when or why you would pick between the skis I mentioned if someone isn't requesting a specific width.  It was not a specific question about whether the skis you listed were skis that would work for the poster; I wasn't trying to challenge you but to understand your thinking.  I was trying to understand what you would tell a customer who walked into the store, or asked your perspective here on the forum.  For someone who is skiing the terrain the original poster noted in Northern Vermont, how do you decide whether to include the bonafide or the bushwacker on the list of recommended skis?  Same question with the Nordicas.   What are the differences within those ski pairs that would lead you to recommend one over the other, setting aside any specific request related to width.

 

And, just to be clear, I read the original post not to be asking for skis in that width, but to be asking whether he would "be doing good to look at a 95-100mm ski."  I understood that to be a preliminary question.  Is it the right range?  The natural follow-on to that would of course relate to which ski.   I took from your original response where you jumped to the follow-on question and listed skis to mean that you thought that was the right range. Now I cannot tell whether you gave the skis in that range because you think that is the right range, because it is the right range for someone who also has the Sultan (although then it really isn't a one ski quiver question), because he mentioned it, because it was easier to just reply with skis in that range because it is an acceptable range or for some other reason.  

 

Smiles

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post


Because the O.P. was looking for a ski between 95-100.mm and specifically at skis "like"  two specifically skis 98mm underfoot. 



 

post #11 of 28

Here is something else I do not understand, the following appears in my recent epicski activity on my home page, but I cannot see it in the thread itself:

 

 

Smiles
post #12 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiSmiles View Post

Here is something else I do not understand, the following appears in my recent epicski activity on my home page, but I cannot see it in the thread itself:

 

 

Smiles


The Spam machine thought the poster was a spammer.

post #13 of 28
Thread Starter 

poo :D

 

And SkiSmiles has it right...I first need to decide if the 95-100 range would be appropriate as a one ski quiver for Jay, before deciding on the exact ski.

 

Thx
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post





The Spam machine thought the poster was a spammer.



 

post #14 of 28

Check out the review of the MOMENT PB&J at www.blisterreviewgear.com   I think you will be impressed.

post #15 of 28

I've never skied Jay Peak (although it's on my list) so I'm not familiar with the terrain/snow conditions.  Do you experience a lot of that eastern hardpack (what westerners call ice), or does the snow hold up better that far north?

 

From all my research, as I was also looking to purchase a new ski for the upcoming season, I decided to buy the 2011 Volkl Bridge (95mm under foot, ELP Rocker).  The 2012 version is unchanged except for color/graphics.  There are a few 2011 models still left out there at a pretty good discount (~$125 off) if you can find it in the length you want.

 

It won Freeskier Magazine All-Mountain ski of the year.  They said the following:

"Like a Swiss Army 18.1 knife, the Volkl Bridge is a jack-of-all-trades, scoring exceptionally well in all categories. The Bridge is new and improved in 2011 with a reverse-camber shape that provides excellent float on those deep days. It shredded deep pow, carved well, and is money through the crud, said a tester. With just the right amount of rocker, the ski still turns well and performs great on hardpack. Have no hesitations when buying this ski if you are looking for that perfect one ski quiver."

 

And from one east coast reviewer:

"I had a chance to test this mid-fat rockered park/freeride ski during the 2010 season on the east coast before our massive February dump.  Needless to say this ski was tested on near bulletproof conditions of Loon Mountain's Park, and then on Upper Flume off North Peak.  The ski consistently plowed through the icey crud that can be found on the shady side of a mountain at around 3pm and floated over everything that Loon's park had to offer, which is quite a bit.  The traditional park skier may have found this ski to be a bit stiff in the past, but now with its new rockered design buttering is a breeze and carving is a cinch.  Hands down the Volkl Bridge prevailed as one of the best all around skis tested this year."

 

There are lots of similar reviews from a variety of sites, it's just supposed to be such a playfull ski you can butter through the trees but still has that great edge hold on groomers that Volkl is famous for.  I couldn't find a single bad review anywhere.  Unfortunately I wasn't able to demo them last winter, but since I'm a long time fan of volkl skis I decided to trust the reviews and I ordered my pair last week.  Check them out, and good luck in your search.

post #16 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by msawyer13 View Post

I've never skied Jay Peak (although it's on my list) so I'm not familiar with the terrain/snow conditions.  Do you experience a lot of that eastern hardpack (what westerners call ice), or does the snow hold up better that far north?



It's a little bit of both, actually.  Jay gets a ton of snow, but can also be a windblown freezer.  You have the potential for deep snow OR horrible conditions, but usually if the wond is honkin', just poke around the lower mountain glades and find where it's blowing to for a good time.  I've never had a bad time at Jay, but I could see how some on-pisters could have a bad day if it's windy and cold out. 

 

post #17 of 28
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Do Work View Post





It's a little bit of both, actually.  Jay gets a ton of snow, but can also be a windblown freezer.  You have the potential for deep snow OR horrible conditions, but usually if the wond is honkin', just poke around the lower mountain glades and find where it's blowing to for a good time.  I've never had a bad time at Jay, but I could see how some on-pisters could have a bad day if it's windy and cold out. 

 


Yep...and on those windy days you run for the trees :)

 

I actually tried the bridge last year from the Jay shop; not sure if it was the ski, the tune, or me, but they felt like a couple of bricks on my feet. That's my other concern about going to a wider ski, is losing the quick playfullness of the Sultan 85...


 

 

post #18 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by bacchus View Post

 


Yep...and on those windy days you run for the trees :)

 

I actually tried the bridge last year from the Jay shop; not sure if it was the ski, the tune, or me, but they felt like a couple of bricks on my feet. That's my other concern about going to a wider ski, is losing the quick playfullness of the Sultan 85...


 

 


Really interesting post -- and one that speaks to the individuality of skiers and skis and perhaps to the vagaries of tuning.   I tried both the Sultan and the Bridge last year...and I had the exact OPPOSITE reaction.  The Sultan couldn't get started turning in my case; I felt like I was driving an 18-wheeler.  The Bridge, on the other hand, felt light, lively, responsive... almost to a fault.  Ultimately, they carved great for me, and I loved their flexibility in mixed conditions, but I had to get used to the sense of lightness rather than the heavy, damp feel of my Contact 4x4's.

 

 

post #19 of 28

Interesting.  Did you have the 2011 Bridge (completely redesigned from the 2010 version) that just came out last year?  I couldn't find it available for Demo anywhere, so I wasn't able to try it.  All the shops I called said they had the bridge, but then after further discussion admitted it wasn't the newest version...

 

If you're certain it was the new version, well then it just must not be the ski for you!

post #20 of 28

MSawyer -- it was the 2011 Bridge, performance rental in Utah.  And I think you missed my point: I liked the Bridge!   I didn't like the Sultan 85, never found the performance so many have written about,  but once I accustomed myself to the idea that a light ski could still perform, I grew to really love the Bridge.  I'd buy a pair in a heartbeat if I didn't already have too many skis.

 

I don't think I'm alone in thinking it could be a great 1-ski for people who venture off the groomed (and beaten) path in the East.

 

post #21 of 28
Thread Starter 

tried these guys: http://www.powder7.com/Volkl-Bridge-Skis-163cm-Used-2011/for-sale

 

am now even more nervous considering I won't be able to demo any of the 95-100mm skis mentioned above!
 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by msawyer13 View Post

Interesting.  Did you have the 2011 Bridge (completely redesigned from the 2010 version) that just came out last year?  I couldn't find it available for Demo anywhere, so I wasn't able to try it.  All the shops I called said they had the bridge, but then after further discussion admitted it wasn't the newest version...

 

If you're certain it was the new version, well then it just must not be the ski for you!


 

 

post #22 of 28

Yeah, sorry tch, I wasn't replying to you but rather to bacchus when he said he didn't like the bridge he tried.  Just making sure he had the 2011 model.  I agree with you in the sense that a lot of people seem to like the new bridge, and I sure as hell hope so because I ordered a pair last week!

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tch View Post

MSawyer -- it was the 2011 Bridge, performance rental in Utah.  And I think you missed my point: I liked the Bridge!   I didn't like the Sultan 85, never found the performance so many have written about,  but once I accustomed myself to the idea that a light ski could still perform, I grew to really love the Bridge.  I'd buy a pair in a heartbeat if I didn't already have too many skis.

 

I don't think I'm alone in thinking it could be a great 1-ski for people who venture off the groomed (and beaten) path in the East.

 



 

post #23 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canyons View Post

Check out the review of the MOMENT PB&J at www.blisterreviewgear.com   I think you will be impressed.


Canyons, read that a while back, yep, very impressive. Perhaps as a dealer you can answer a couple of related questions: 1) Does the PB&J have carbon stringers in it, or solid wood core? Asked Moment but no reply yet. 2) How will it do on hardpack and ice? Which we do get back here, even at places that get 300+ a year, and the review was more focused (for obvious reasons) on soft snow. Thanks. 

 

OP, setting aside the PB&J (which could be the best of the bunch, who knows), and using your criteria of trees and bumps, I'd vote for the Blizzard One at your weight over the Bone, then either the MX98 if you want a smoother, more traditional feel, or a PM Gear 179 if you want light and lively. While I am convinced the Bone is a great ski, I am less convinced that it is a great eastern tree ski for a light skier. YMMV. 

 

post #24 of 28
Thread Starter 

Would The One still be okay early in the season or on harder snow days? Obviously that's not its strength but this would be a one-ski quiver.

 

Thx

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

 

OP, setting aside the PB&J (which could be the best of the bunch, who knows), and using your criteria of trees and bumps, I'd vote for the Blizzard One at your weight over the Bone, then either the MX98 if you want a smoother, more traditional feel, or a PM Gear 179 if you want light and lively. While I am convinced the Bone is a great ski, I am less convinced that it is a great eastern tree ski for a light skier. YMMV. 

 



 

post #25 of 28
Well everything's a tradeoff. At your weight it would have decent grip. But its strength is softer snow in the trees and bumps. If you are concerned more with grip and still want nice tree moves I'd think something like a Watea 94 or Bushwacker. Personally I would not own any 98 mm softer snow ski as a OSQ for the EC. Others who spend most of their time in the trees would. Think about priorities, what you most care about, what you can deal with.
post #26 of 28

Okay.... I gotta chip my two cents here being an avid Jay Peak'er. I'm 6', 170 lbs., ex racer, hard charger these days @ 29, skiing 25yrs. I've hucked the face of Jay, dropped the cliffs in Andres, slayed Big Jay in overhead powder, ripped up teh bumps in Veritgo, straightlined CanAm, and I've done it all while riding the last either 3 or 4 seasons on the Atomic Nomad Crimson (not the TI). The ski is one of the LIGHTEST on the market. My knees tend to hurt a lot if I wear heavy skiies. Second when you get them up to speed they are incredibly nimble, amazingly playful and fun yet super solid as if riding on railroad tracks (it's an Atomic!). The ski is 86mm underfoot, 128mm in the tip and 114mm. The tip gives you plenty of float and enough of a shovel to push through crud, while the aggresive sidecut carves almost like a slalom ski but tortional rigidity to be stable at 50+ mph. I prefered the regular Crimson to the TI for it's softer tip and tail for the bumps up at Jay and I've found it to be the best all around ski for the east coast. Super stable, killer edge traction, playful yet aggressive when commanded to be. The TI these days has a early rise rocker so the technology has changed as well as the shape slightly, but i would SERIOUSLY give the Nomad line a try.

 

Admittedly, this year I purchased a pair of last years Bent Chetlers for those deep days at Jay but basically I'm on the Crimsons day in and day out. 

post #27 of 28

Fischer Watea series offers some interesting choices for an east coast one ski quiver

post #28 of 28

i have the Bridge 179's with look px15's on them and have skied them twice so far on groomers and they did very well.  I can not wait to try them in some deeper stuff to see how they do.

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