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I would rather be in a 2WD vehicle with winter tires… - Page 3

post #61 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post



 

 



Yep. RWD, FWD, AWD, 4WD. They all brake and turn the same.

 

Given the choice I'd rather get stuck going up hill then slide off the road going downhill.

 

Having the choice Mrs5150 and I drive Subarus and each has two sets of wheels. Takes me about 45 minutes to swap the wheels on either vehicle.

 

 



actually they do not all turn the same......

 

in a FWD or  AWD vehicle you can stop alot of skids by hitting the thottle .  You can also turn faster in slippery conditions by hanging using the cars power to tighten the line.

post #62 of 80

I would just as soon take a rear wheel drive car as a front wheel drive car, just so long as the weight bias wasn't too badly skewed to the front (e.g. Caprice ok, Mustang not so much) .  I've gotten a little extra bite from the front tires many a time with a little judicious engine braking applied to the rear, and then there's that fantastic feeling you get when you go from trailing throttle over steer to power slide, kinda like an cross-under on skis or coming about on a sail boat. 

 

 

post #63 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I would just as soon take a rear wheel drive car as a front wheel drive car, just so long as the weight bias wasn't too badly skewed to the front (e.g. Caprice ok, Mustang not so much) .  I've gotten a little extra bite from the front tires many a time with a little judicious engine braking applied to the rear, and then there's that fantastic feeling you get when you go from trailing throttle over steer to power slide, kinda like an cross-under on skis or coming about on a sail boat. 

 

 

+1

 

BK
 

 

post #64 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post




Mt Evans road isn't open during snow, anyway -- the top 5 miles are already closed, and it usually doesn't open till almost June. And Loveland Pass is steeper:  there are no 10% grades, according to the chart on this page, nothing more than 6% on Mt Evans:

 

http://www.mountevans.com/MountEvansCom/Mount-Evans-Things-Bicycling.HTML

 

I will report back and tell you all if I make it through one more winter safely with AWD and all-seasons. ;-) Although I have switched to a tire that has supposedly worse ice braking qualities than my old Duelers (which weren't anywhere to be found when I needed new tires -- they didn't have any anywhere, accordign to two tire shops), so if they do suck, I will be sure to switch. 

 

And an honest question: if snow tires are so great on dry pavement, why does CR give most of them such poor dry braking scores? 


If Mt Evans or Loveland Pass (which I have done in a 3 cylinder Suzuki rental car) are the examples of difficult Colorado driving, then it proves my point that Vermont is way more difficult winter driving than Colorado.

 

IT's true that most snow tires are worse than the best all seasons on dry pavement, but the difference is safely manageable.  The issue isn't getting through the winter safely, which only requires good judgment.  The real issue is maintaining reasonable speeds on the highway, which requires proper winter tires.  It wouldn't bother me much except for the a$$hats who can't remember the simple rule "keep right except to pass."

 

BK

post #65 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I would just as soon take a rear wheel drive car as a front wheel drive car, just so long as the weight bias wasn't too badly skewed to the front (e.g. Caprice ok, Mustang not so much) .  I've gotten a little extra bite from the front tires many a time with a little judicious engine braking applied to the rear, and then there's that fantastic feeling you get when you go from trailing throttle over steer to power slide, kinda like an cross-under on skis or coming about on a sail boat. 

 

 


It's true that RWD, AWD and FWD all respond differently to the throttle, but in my experience those who understand that already appreciate the importance of winter tires.  

 

BK

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #66 of 80

I wonder what the percentage is for those who head to the hill in their own ride vs a rental.  For me, until I can move to where it actually snows and there are actual mountains higher than a landfill, I will be renting.  I had two very different experiences in CO in general this year, and Summit Co. in particular...

 

First was April.  A lot of skiing was going on, so the best I could afford was a Kia FWD, I don't even want to post what it cost for the week.  It had all seasons on, and after the pass from Vail to Frisco finally opened that first evening of the Gathering, I nearly got stuck on 70 and became That Guy when we all had to sit on the first eastbound grade for a while and when it was time to go, the front simply didn't want to hook up.  Patience and a dim memory of living on the ice coast helped, but not before I had a knot in my tummy.  The Kia actually helped a little; it had nice steering and throttle 'feel', if for no other reason than that the crate is so minimalist that there was nothing to soften the seat-of-pants experience.

 

Next was May at A-basin.  for 8 (!!!) bucks a day, I could have had the same quirky Kia Soul, or for $14 a mid-size SUV with AWD (Chevy Traverse).  The Chevy had steering feedback not unlike the '64 Ford Galaxy 500 XL I learned to drive on, but all four wheels would turn if I had to stop on a snowy/icy grade, which was comforting since I figured I wasn't going to get soft winter tires from a rental.  The weather ended up being mild anyway.

 

I am trying to buy a car that is 'future proofed' for using as a ski rig in a year or two, and currently the ones I like are more or less in line with the OP (see? not a threadjack.  Sort of):  VW TDI, Golf and Sportwagen, 2012 Ford Focus hatch (phenomenal driving car for the price), maybe a used Mazda3 hatch, all manual.  Too bad the Mazda CX-5 isn't out yet, it looks really promising.

 

I haven't looked at snows yet, but the word count for Blizzak is like a dozen.  No wait, now Blizzak appears 13 times. no, 14, arrrgh!

post #67 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post




If Mt Evans or Loveland Pass (which I have done in a 3 cylinder Suzuki rental car) are the examples of difficult Colorado driving, then it proves my point that Vermont is way more difficult winter driving than Colorado.

 

 

That's been my point the whole time...

post #68 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post
 The real issue is maintaining reasonable speeds on the highway, which requires proper winter tires.  It wouldn't bother me much except for the a$$hats who can't remember the simple rule "keep right except to pass."


Translation: It's not just about getting to the ski area, it's about getting there as fast as I can. Keep right so I can do 70 mph in the left lane regardless of the conditions. wink.gif

post #69 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stikki View Post





Translation: It's not just about getting to the ski area, it's about getting there as fast as I can. Keep right so I can do 70 mph in the left lane regardless of the conditions. wink.gif


No.  It's about driving as fast as a safely can, and about following the law by keeping right to allow more competent drivers to pass safely.  That makes the roads safe for everyone.  I never stay home when it snows, but the last time I had an accident or lost control when I was driving winter tires was... uh...NEVER.

 

BK

 

post #70 of 80
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post




It's true that RWD, AWD and FWD all respond differently to the throttle, but in my experience those who understand that already appreciate the importance of winter tires.  

 

BK

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


Thank you.

 

I was going to respond with something like "yea, but all things being equal" and "the best brakes in the world won't make any differece if the tires can't do the job". But you saved me the trouble.

 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post





actually they do not all turn the same......

 

in a FWD or  AWD vehicle you can stop alot of skids by hitting the thottle .  You can also turn faster in slippery conditions by hanging using the cars power to tighten the line.

Your advice ^^^ rings true on dry or wet pavement. But I think if practiced on snowy or icy roads would be a bit too exciting to the occupants of the vehicle in question.
 

 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post


 


No they don't.  4 wheel disc>anti lock disk and drum>old school rear drums>really old school front drums.  Also add the ability to downshift with stick.  Also add the ability to powersteer rear wheel drive or use acceleration to redirect a FWD understeer.  Add to that the experience, knowledge, and ability to best use whatever set up given.

 



 

 

Yes I understand all of these things and you're right. But still....

 


Edited by Mr5150 - 9/10/11 at 3:37pm
post #71 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post



 


Thank you.

 

I was going to respond with something like "yea, but all things being equal" and "the best brakes in the world won't make any differece if the tires can't do the job". But you saved me the trouble.

 


 

Your advice ^^^ rings true on dry or wet pavement. But I think if practiced on snowy or icy roads would be a bit too exciting to the occupants of the vehicle in question.
 

 



 



 

 

Yes I understand all of these things and you're right. But still....

 




actually in the snow its alot easier to support high slip angles. I would be scared taking a 4wd car into a drift on public roads in the dry but would not even think twice about in the snow.

post #72 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post




Mt Evans road isn't open during snow, anyway -- the top 5 miles are already closed, and it usually doesn't open till almost June. And Loveland Pass is steeper:  there are no 10% grades, according to the chart on this page, nothing more than 6% on Mt Evans:

 

http://www.mountevans.com/MountEvansCom/Mount-Evans-Things-Bicycling.HTML

 

I will report back and tell you all if I make it through one more winter safely with AWD and all-seasons. ;-) Although I have switched to a tire that has supposedly worse ice braking qualities than my old Duelers (which weren't anywhere to be found when I needed new tires -- they didn't have any anywhere, accordign to two tire shops), so if they do suck, I will be sure to switch. 

 

And an honest question: if snow tires are so great on dry pavement, why does CR give most of them such poor dry braking scores? 

uhhh, drive up there next summer and tell me that the areas around the switch backs are only 6%,  they may be short areas but coming to a stop and swinging a complete 180 degree turn and going up (or down) a short 10 percent grade during the snow/ ice will test the traction of any car....  I suspect the chart doesn't account for steep grades that don't accumulate more than X amount of feet.   
 

 

post #73 of 80
Good thread. I drive a Hyundai Accent that with the stock tires was basicly useless in snow. With snow tires it's a great winter car. I haven't been stuck or lost control once, and I've driven through some gnarly stuff. It's fun seeing pickup trucks or big cars spinning their wheels while I drive by with ease. Driving a standard is a big plus too, it gives you way more control and "feel" for the road.

I live in Toronto which, contrary to what people from other parts of Canada might say, does get a lot of snow. And it's usually wet, so snow tires are a worthwile investment here. Something I dont't think has been mentioned - if you're going to get snows, get them on all four tires! Putting them on the drive wheels only just makes things worse when turning or braking because of the difference in grip between front and back.
post #74 of 80

I saw this posted on another thread and well, maybe it's just me, but I think it's actually really funny and clever at the same time.lol

 

"You are just like a neanderthal, participating in communal assault.  The funny thing is cro-magnons romanced your best looking women, and then killed off the rest of you worthless hominids."

post #75 of 80

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post



There's no question that there are some roads in Colorado that require a serious vehicle, but do you really think it requires 4WD to get to ski summit couny or ail?  

 

BK
 

 

 

If you ask the question the other way, which means do you really think you can get to ski Summit County or Vail with 2wd and snow tires in any I-70 weather conditions, then your answer is 'yes'.  If you stay home when you probably should, then 'no'.

 

I have been stuck in my FWD minivan with dedicated snows in my neighborhood, which is steep, wooded, and has a propensity to ice during 1-2" powder squalls.  In some conditions, studless snows are as overrated as AWD, and although it really doesn't need to be said here, what works in high water content snow conditions cannot always be relied on to the same degree in low water content snow conditions and the driver had best understand the differences (much as is also true about severe temp differences).

 

Now off to what should have been my first post thanking Phil & Start Haus for setting me up on some Kastle LX 82's on a great deal after my countless hours lurking.

post #76 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

I would just as soon take a rear wheel drive car as a front wheel drive car, just so long as the weight bias wasn't too badly skewed to the front (e.g. Caprice ok, Mustang not so much) .  I've gotten a little extra bite from the front tires many a time with a little judicious engine braking applied to the rear, and then there's that fantastic feeling you get when you go from trailing throttle over steer to power slide, kinda like an cross-under on skis or coming about on a sail boat. 

 

 

Sounds like somebody has had some professional training.When in doubt gas it! Buick Skylark worst snow car ever.........
 

 

post #77 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post

 

 

If you ask the question the other way, which means do you really think you can get to ski Summit County or Vail with 2wd and snow tires in any I-70 weather conditions, then your answer is 'yes'.  If you stay home when you probably should, then 'no'.

 

I have been stuck in my FWD minivan with dedicated snows in my neighborhood, which is steep, wooded, and has a propensity to ice during 1-2" powder squalls.  In some conditions, studless snows are as overrated as AWD, and although it really doesn't need to be said here, what works in high water content snow conditions cannot always be relied on to the same degree in low water content snow conditions and the driver had best understand the differences (much as is also true about severe temp differences).

 

Now off to what should have been my first post thanking Phil & Start Haus for setting me up on some Kastle LX 82's on a great deal after my countless hours lurking.

Noooo don't egg them on!  just let them think that "only the east coast has the worst driving conditions ever"   I mean it only makes sense that the east coast would have worse driving conditions anywhere in the west (or world)  because,,,,, ummm,,,,,,   well just F-in because!      I mean holy $hit!   dry snow is dry snow, ice is ice and wet snow is wet snow... but noooo not if you live here, or not if you live there.... blah blah blahhhhhhh.     .      
 

 

post #78 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bode Klammer View Post




If Mt Evans or Loveland Pass (which I have done in a 3 cylinder Suzuki rental car) are the examples of difficult Colorado driving, then it proves my point that Vermont is way more difficult winter driving than Colorado.

 

IT's true that most snow tires are worse than the best all seasons on dry pavement, but the difference is safely manageable.  The issue isn't getting through the winter safely, which only requires good judgment.  The real issue is maintaining reasonable speeds on the highway, which requires proper winter tires.  It wouldn't bother me much except for the a$$hats who can't remember the simple rule "keep right except to pass."

 

BK


Mt Evans ,  First,  like any day depends on the conditions.   Were you on a ski trip when you drove up there or just checking out the scenery?  Anyways, just curious what time of year you were up there... 

 

post #79 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by pdiddy View Post



Noooo don't egg them on!  just let them think that "only the east coast has the worst driving conditions ever"   
 

 


That's true.  I usually ride my bike 100 miles to the resort with my skis on my back and my kids towed behind on a sled anyway.

 

post #80 of 80
Quote:
Originally Posted by NayBreak View Post




That's true.  I usually ride my bike 100 miles to the resort with my skis on my back and my kids towed behind on a sled anyway.

 


I should try that because my roller blades are getting really worn out from the same trip. And Floyd hill is a killer on my heel brake.   :) 

 

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