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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Powder/Big Mountain = 4x4 offroad whereas Groomers/Gates = Street/Road Racing. Does the analogy stick?
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Powder/Big Mountain = 4x4 offroad whereas Groomers/Gates = Street/Road Racing. Does the analogy stick?  

post #1 of 149
Thread Starter 

Whenever I ski with my buddies out west, I always here the statement "So...you brought your race skis with you.  Why?"  I then answer "because I'm going to get my speed fix on the groomers while were out here".  I then get the response of "DUUUUUUUUDE you should just ski the POW why waste your time of the groomers???" 

 

I then ask my buddy the following question.  "Do you like your work truck, and do you enjoy going through the mud and taking it out in the woods and getting stuck?"  Of course he does.  I then ask him if he likes his Mustang, and if he enjoys taking it on the curvies out in the country, doing burnouts and drag racing.  "Hell Yes!!!"

 

So when did it become uncool to spend a day at someplace like Alta scaring the hell out of yourself on a sick pair of Slalom or GS skis?  Am I stuck in the 80's and still worship Bill Johnson? 

 

My guess is there are a ton of closet groomer skiers, but they will never admit it on a site like this.  Don't get me wrong!  Let it snow every day.  Just sayin' though.  Bump skiing isn't even cool anymore.  It's all POW POW POW.  Discuss. 

post #2 of 149

Hi, I'm a speed addict.  And I'm not interested in the Powder Skiing 12 Steps to Recovery from Powderholics Anonymous.  I respect that group very highly, but I'm not quite ready to give up my particular addiction just yet.  When I am, I will seek their help.

post #3 of 149

I like skiing groomers and powder. Some days here in the Boat, we get to ski Powdered Groomersbiggrin.gif

post #4 of 149

I mostly ski groomers, and would be perfectly content doing that all day.  I enjoy powder, but hardly ever get to ski it.  I'm not very good at bumps anymore, but even when I was I preferred higher-speed groomer skiing, which I think is the most exhilarating.

post #5 of 149

A little of this & a little of that, it's all good.

post #6 of 149

But dude if your on the groomers how are you gunna shred the gnar? Or get to show everyone who's the best skier on the mountain?

post #7 of 149

Here is my take: There are skis that make you look cool on the chairlift & skis that make you look cool on the trails.  Most skiers these days are over compensating via gear.

 

I'm here to bring technical skiing back...............

post #8 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

Here is my take: There are skis that make you look cool on the chairlift & skis that make you look cool on the trails.  Most skiers these days are over compensating via gear.

 

I'm here to bring technical skiing back...............


icon14.gif


 

 

popcorn.gif

post #9 of 149

For me (probably because most of my ski trips are in the Alps), groomers are like crowded highways and off-piste routes are like open rally courses.

 

Because of the crowds and the overly groomed surface, the groomers never offer anything exciting to me. Most of the time, I can't get up to any decent speed because of all the people around. And, even when I do get on an open stretch, the surface is so featureless that even the steepest sections don't offer any challenge. Even when I'm riding a pair of fat, soft freestyle skis (Line Elizabeth), it's just too easy to dig the edges in and make just about any turn shape I want. Even the crashes are boring because you just fall on your side and slide until you feel like stopping yourself.

 

Off-piste skiing, on the other hand, throws in a three-dimensional aspect to your turns, various snow conditions to deal with, and hazards/obstacles to avoid or play with. I don't get nearly as much speed going, but the skiing is much more engaging and entertaining. There is more to think about, more to adapt to, and more options to choose. So, I find it much more fun.

 

But, that's just me.


Edited by CerebralVortex - 9/8/11 at 2:13am
post #10 of 149

Most people dont have the skill required to ski groomers to make them as exciting as off piste.  New skis make off piste easy, so the groms love it, as they feel cool.

 

This

 

Bode.jpg

 

is definatley equal to this, but most will never experience either:

 

moto.jpg

post #11 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Most people dont have the skill required to ski groomers to make them as exciting as off piste.  New skis make off piste easy, so the groms love it, as they feel cool.

 

 

New skis also make groomers easy

 

 

, but most will never experience either:

 

 

Nor will "most" ever experience the off-piste experience that big-mountain pros have

 



But are you trying to say that if you enjoy the groomers, you are a good skier eek.gif  C'mon, that's so not skidude72 material.

post #12 of 149



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Most people dont have the skill required to ski groomers to make them as exciting as off piste. New skis make off piste easy, so the groms love it, as they feel cool.

 

 

New skis also make groomers easy - to just ski them yes, but new gear opens up a whole new performance level, althought hard to call carving skis "new" anymore.

 

 

, but most will never experience either:

 

 

Nor will "most" ever experience the off-piste experience that big-mountain pros have true, but the funny thing is, they think they are





But are you trying to say that if you enjoy the groomers, you are a good skier eek.gif  C'mon, that's so not skidude72 material.



What do you mean that is not "skidude72 material"? 

 

You can ski well and enjoy the groomed or offpiste, you can suck and also enjoy either.

 

Skiing is like sex, you dont have to be good at it to enjoy it.  But it helps!

 

post #13 of 149

I find high speed skiing thrilling, on and off the trail map (although I don't get to do much off-the-map skiing where I live, and I've officially retired from high-speed mogul skiing).  Slow speed off-piste is not so much of a thrill, but it's still fun in a different way. 

post #14 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Nor will "most" ever experience the off-piste experience that big-mountain pros have true, but the funny thing is, they think they are

 

 



So, off-piste skiers who think they are good are just dillusional, but piste carvers who think they are good are not?

 

Powder lovers are unskilled and rely on technology, but groomer lovers on their metal-laden race skis with 10-m sidecuts aren't?

 

 

What about people who got tired of groomers and started going off in the powder back in the days of the straight and narrow? Were we using the superior technology of straight, skinny skis to make up for our lack of skill and boost our egos?

post #15 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralVortex View Post





So, off-piste skiers who think they are good are just dillusional, but piste carvers who think they are good are not?

 

Powder lovers are unskilled and rely on technology, but groomer lovers on their metal-laden race skis with 10-m sidecuts aren't?

 

 

What about people who got tired of groomers and started going off in the powder back in the days of the straight and narrow? Were we using the superior technology of straight, skinny skis to make up for our lack of skill and boost our egos?



No no no, you are reading too much into it. 

 

There are dillusiional types everywhere, but my experience is, that the "off road" crowd tend to be the worst, mainly because it tend to attract young, skiing 3 years, males.  Generalisation yes, but it tends to hold true.  Groomer guys tend to race, and you cant BS the clock, so they tend to be realistic of thier skill level.

 

There are some seriously good back country guys thou, although again, and stereotyping, but these guys I also know well, and they tend to be reallly low key about it all, they sure as hell dont brag about it online.

 

 

The guys who went backcountry back in the day?  Well yah, they sucked.  Seriously.  They sucked bad.  Stereotyping again, of course, but man, these guys couldnt ski, so they went for the "out doorsy" angle, that skiing was just part of the experience.   Dont get me wrong, I love the outdoors, but I also love to ski, and those guys weren't skiers....well good skiers.

 

post #16 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by iriponsnow View Post

Here is my take: There are skis that make you look cool on the chairlift & skis that make you look cool on the trails.  Most skiers these days are over compensating via gear.

 

I'm here to bring technical skiing back...............



..right dude.

 

 the funny thing is I do not care how cool I look on trail because noone ever see me skiing anyways. I only care about how much fun it for me.

 

with that said outside of iriponsnow and skidude posting I am willing to bet every other person who doesnt like off trail skiing, does not possess the skills to ski off trail well for long periods of time.

post #17 of 149

From Realskiers.com -

We have noted a disturbing trend that seems to be accelerating. For whatever reasons, the ski industry seems bent on selling ever-wider skis to ever more skiers, no matter the brand. Worse, shop employees, ski instructors and self-described "experts" in various forums seem to promote favorite models more than they attempt to discover an individual's skiing style and goals in order to suggest the right shape.

gotama
Fischer Watea 101

There is nothing inherently wrong with wide skis (by which we mean anything with a waist wider than 88mm). Wide rides, especially rockers, are unequaled in deep snow and many of them have side cuts and the "beef" to perform well on hard snow, in chop and crud, or even, in some cases, in bumps.

But, and this is the key point, wide skis and rockers are first and foremost for deep snow. Anyone who skis more than half the time on the groomed, or who is working on developing technical skills, won't gain much benefit by using these skis as primary tools. Wide skis are slower than narrow skis to come up on edge, less nimble in the fall line and reduce margin of error in bumps.

contact
Blizzard Magnum 76

We are not "down" on fat skis, but do caution anyone pursuing technical skiing as a primary interest to consider something with a bit less girth. The truth is that a 78mm ski can handle virtually any off-piste condition, up to and including bottomless powder. Narrow skis are simply the best tools available for anyone interested in becoming a better skier. And, we can flatly state that level 6, 7 or 8 skiers trying to develop modern carving skills will be frustrated on any wide, twin-tip-or-otherwise model. To put it another way, those skiers working on technical development would be wise not to sacrifice efficiency for, dare we say, fashion. 

 

 

 

Out of balance?

We are aware of a growing tendency for skiers to be recommended to use, for example, 100mm + rockers for all situations. We hope to point out here that more fun and better value for skiing dollars (including travel, lodging and tickets) can be best had if the skier is on the best shape for his or her skiing experience and plans. 

 

 

post #18 of 149



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Most people dont have the skill required to ski groomers to make them as exciting as off piste.  New skis make off piste easy, so the groms love it, as they feel cool.

 

This

 

Bode.jpg

 

is definatley equal to this, but most will never experience either:

 

moto.jpg



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post





But are you trying to say that if you enjoy the groomers, you are a good skier eek.gif  C'mon, that's so not skidude72 material.



I would contend that novice or good skiers will not get better flopping around on a reverse cambered 125mm ski.

 

post #19 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

There are some seriously good back country guys thou, although again, and stereotyping, but these guys I also know well, and they tend to be reallly low key about it all, they sure as hell dont brag about it online.

 

 

 


Ah, so it's only the fantastically amazing groomer skiers who go online and brag about it.

post #20 of 149

your really going to listen to Harold Harb?

 

sure 78 mm skis can handle any off trail situation, as well as 100mm can handle nearly on piste situation.... I admittedly disagree that skiing narrow skis will make someone a better off piste skier. Its the same with Mountain Biking riding a fully rigid bike can improve some skill but in the end learning how to exploit a Full suspension  will make you an overall faster rider than a Hardtail or rigid rider.


If you out there ot have fun and not think about how great your BPST looks I say a 100mm ish semi rockered ski is the best ski to be used all the time nearly anywhere with real skiing.

 

 

 

 

post #21 of 149

and by the way if you love skiing groomers at alta that awesome, but I personally think your an odd ball.

post #22 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post


There are some seriously good back country guys thou ... and they tend to be reallly low key about it all, they sure as hell dont brag about it online.

 

 



There are people that are good at skiing that don't brag about it, and a whole lot that do brag about it.  The TR forum here, and all of TGR wouldn't have a place in this world if back-country brahs didn't lay siege to the forums with their bits of "stoke."  I have no problem with it, but backcountry-bragging has a strong presence here and elsewhere.

post #23 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post





There are people that are good at skiing that don't brag about it, and a whole lot that do brag about it.  The TR forum here, and all of TGR wouldn't have a place in this world if back-country brahs didn't lay siege to the forums with their bits of "stoke."  I have no problem with it, but backcountry-bragging has a strong presence here and elsewhere.


I normally say I suck and wide skis let me enjoy my suckage to a whole new level. If thats bragging ...

 

post #24 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




I normally say I suck and wide skis let me enjoy my suckage to a whole new level. If thats bragging ...

 



I wasn't talking about you, BW.  I enjoy your tree POV, and especially the music that goes along with them.  Each new video of your's adds new tracks to my Napster playlists.

post #25 of 149

Originally Posted by CerebralVortex View Post


Ah, so it's only the fantastically amazing groomer skiers who go online and brag about it.



Not at all they usually suck too.

 

If you are trying to take a dig at me, try harder.  Find a quote of me bragging about my skill, on or off piste.  I am sure you wont find it.  I debate ski technique, because I can.  But dont recall ever posting video, picture, or making statments as to my skiing ability.

 

post #26 of 149



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post





There are people that are good at skiing that don't brag about it, and a whole lot that do brag about it.  The TR forum here, and all of TGR wouldn't have a place in this world if back-country brahs didn't lay siege to the forums with their bits of "stoke."  I have no problem with it, but backcountry-bragging has a strong presence here and elsewhere.


Well what is consireded "good" is a matter of perspective.  I have seen your videos showing you ski, and while you lack alot of basics, you clearly have strenght, guts and certain level of natural athletism.  Put a GoPro on your head, you would might be amazed how good the video looks with only the most basic editing, despite the complete mess that might be behind the camera.

 

Not saying "you" would be a complete mess...just making the point that it dont take much to make a GoPro video look good.
 

 


Edited by Skidude72 - 9/8/11 at 7:11am
post #27 of 149



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post




I normally say I suck and wide skis let me enjoy my suckage to a whole new level. If thats bragging ...

 



Well no that isnt...but you dont say that all.  Infact you claim to be the greatest skier in the NE USA.  That is bragging.  And coming from you, beyond laughable.

 

post #28 of 149



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

If you are trying to take a dig at me, try harder.  Find a quote of me bragging about my skill, on or off piste.  I am sure you wont find it.  I debate ski technique, because I can.  But dont recall ever posting video, picture, or making statments as to my skiing ability.

 



You're right; you never brag about yourself. Instead, you take digs at anyone and everyone who rides any ski that you do not like on any terrain that's not your preferred terrain, associating them with groms, gapers, etc., and implying that you are better than them. But you never brag.

 

In this thread, you've basically stated that just about everyone sucks, but you never include yourself in that group. You put down pretty much everyone but yourself and professional/hard core experts.

 

Bragging without bragging.

post #29 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralVortex View Post



 



You're right; you never brag about yourself. Instead, you take digs at anyone and everyone who rides any ski that you do not like on any terrain that's not your preferred terrain, associating them with groms, gapers, etc., and implying that you are better than them. But you never brag.

 

In this thread, you've basically stated that just about everyone sucks, but you never include yourself in that group. You put down pretty much everyone but yourself and professional/hard core experts.

 

Bragging without bragging.



What? When? Where?

 

I have no prefered terrain, but I do laugh and call out people who insist that you need this ski or that ski to ski this or that.  A good skier can ski any terrain, regardless of their skis.

 

Just stated facts.  It takes more then a pair of fat skis and the ability to get down a black "off piste" run to be an expert today.

 

If you disagree fine.  Go for it, ski the GNAR...and when your done, get yourself a Bud Light.

 

post #30 of 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Most people dont have the skill required to ski groomers to make them as exciting as off piste.  New skis make off piste easy, so the groms love it, as they feel cool. 

 

 

Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

 

but my experience is, that the "off road" crowd tend to be the worst,

 

 

 

The guys who went backcountry back in the day?  Well yah, they sucked.  Seriously.  They sucked bad. 



    Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Not at all they usually suck too.

 

 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post





What? When? Where?

 

I have no prefered terrain, but I do laugh and call out people who insist that you need this ski or that ski to ski this or that.  A good skier can ski any terrain, regardless of their skis.

 

Just stated facts.  It takes more then a pair of fat skis and the ability to get down a black "off piste" run to be an expert today.

 

If you disagree fine.  Go for it, ski the GNAR...and when your done, get yourself a Bud Light.

 



Your words. You were awfully pro-groomer early on in the thread, implying that off-piste skiing is for groms on new boards who want to feel cool. Then, you said anyone who went looking for powder back in the day also sucked. After that, you said most people on the groomers suck. So basically, just about everyone sucks in your opinion. How do you feel about cross-country skiers? We haven't covered them yet.

 

No one in this thread said anything about needing a particular type of ski for a particular type of terrain, so who were you calling out? Were you just using this as an opportunity to tell everyone how much you think they suck?

 

 


Edited by CerebralVortex - 9/8/11 at 6:48am
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Powder/Big Mountain = 4x4 offroad whereas Groomers/Gates = Street/Road Racing. Does the analogy stick?