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Poleposition Training Device - Page 2

post #31 of 45
This is just meant for slalom and free skiing, not gs right?
post #32 of 45

About 15 years ago at a PSIA Clinic at Killington, a clinician from Killington had us doing this with a length of ribbon held between our hands, as we held our poles. As we skied our hands moved to match the inclination of the slope and also to be over our ski tips (skis were a lot longer then. Hands were constantly moving, not static.

 

"You don't get too old to play, you get old because you stop playing"

 

post #33 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post

This is just meant for slalom and free skiing, not gs right?


Carl,

 

Its a device to help with drills only.  That means it can be used for all types of skiing if you can make the drill fit the need.

post #34 of 45

For racers (in the gates) the device might make a lot more sense because their primary focus isn't on technique, it's on their line. As it should be! So a secondary focus on holding the strap and thus your hands in place while simultaneously maintaining a primary focus on "line" just might be more congruent with the primary product design.

In a ski school setting the lack of hand discipline, or perhaps a lack of sensory awareness is the first step in the error correction process. So if using the strap increases that awareness it has that value. Beyond that I must say my uniform pockets are already quite full of things I am required to carry, or need for the lesson / clinic. So carrying several of these straps isn't very likely. Especially since I know a lot of hand discipline activities that don't require any additional equipment and IMO are more effective since they feature a strong primary focus on hand discipline. Secondly I will set up the situation so their focus can be on their hands without the distraction of gates, or trees, or even moguls. Once they exhibit enough mastery in a variety of relatively similar situations we can add aditional challenges like steeper terrain, or obstacles like race gates / trees / moguls.

A word of advice about developing "muscle memory". The generally accepted timeframe is 21 days of well executed practice (with no more than 72 hours between practice sessions) to develop basic ownership of a movement and then thousands of additional repetitions to further develop and refine the movement before we can reasonably expect it to happen at the unconscious competence stage commonly known as "muscle memory".  There are no short cuts in this process BTW.

post #35 of 45

The guys who were pushing these came through Vail a couple of seasons ago and gave out quite a few to the pros in our locker room. I still have one, and use it with my clients often. In fact, its almost always in my pocket!

Like most would understand, it is merely a device/tool which ecourages arm position awareness, without overly restrcting movement. And it is quite beneficial to alot of skiers who need to understand that discipline of the arms is a positive goal/outcome!

 

Many on here have trashed the idea/device as being restrictive or contributing to static positions. Until you have used it personally, or seen the improvements a student can realize with it, then the only thing static is your thought process!

 

Would I have paid the amount being asked for it? Probably not, as there have been similar ways of dealing with this issue for decades, none costing as much.

post #36 of 45

If you are going that route you can buy two and use the othe one on your ankles.rolleyes.gif

post #37 of 45

I'm still skeptical Ric, if I can do the same thing without another toy in my pocket I'm happier. Katy used to drill us weekly about hands and was very forthcoming with demo team trainer drills they developed. None used a device and I beleive in those activities because they simply work.

post #38 of 45

Hi guys,

 

I just received some samples from Poleposition Sport and stuck em in the mail yesterday. Please let me know that you received your packages.

 

 

post #39 of 45

I asked the lads in Sweden for a breakdown of who's using it and how they use it...

Just got an email:

 

Here’s a brief description of how Pole Position is being incorporated by skiers and ski instructors today.

 

Beginners - (with instructor)
Skiing w/o poles with Pole Position strapped around thumbs for hand-forward learning. Pushing left hand down at left turns and vice versa.
 
Intermediate to advanced - (with instructor)
Ski schools in Europe and Asia are incorporating Pole Position in 50+ exercises as a tool for faster learning for both individual and group training. They include Pole Position in existing drills and the major difference is that students learn faster.  Feedback and focus groups suggest that students across the board are very receptive - including kids and youth groups. Some schools are also using Pole Position in snowboarding and Telemark exercises.
 
Individual Skiers
The “everyday skier” often feel the need to “set” his/her position at the first run of the day to ensure position and balance. More dedicated skiers use it for up to ten straight runs in a row, focusing on shoulders, hips, and the fluidness of the turns. Pole Position is not used for pole planting drills.
 
Elite Racers, National Teams, Ski Clubs
National WC teams in both Alpine and Ski Cross use Pole Position primarily to prevent shoulder “in-dipping” and for hip control - keeping hands/arms leveled to hip gaining upper body tension which creates faster, more dynamic turns."
 
 
post #40 of 45

Thanks Fredddie,

JASP

post #41 of 45

BF, What I glean from your last post is thanks to the physical connection between the hands a lot of objectives are achieved.

  • A more disciplined and stable upper half,
  • the inside half remaining more aligned with the inside ski (preceeds the outside half into the turn),
  • and even the higher level of tension needed in the upper body.

 

 

That's very congruent with the drills Katy Fry (us d team and head of the S3 of Aspen) shared with all of us in our beyond level 3 training. Of particular importance is the idea of functional tension being maintained. The perception that functional tension is actually lower than it is gets a lot of traction among many here at Epic. While I understand their concerns about statue like rigidity being an unintended consequence of promoting a higher level of tension, I feel these folks mis-understand the role of the body. It need to actively participate in all of our balancing activities. To understand this we need to ask about all the possible options available and the consequence of every one of them. Since this thread isn't exactly about that, I am posting a link to a past thread where that discussion should be more appropriate.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/104011/upper-body-vs-lower-body-where-do-you-start

 

 

 

post #42 of 45
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

I'm still skeptical Ric, if I can do the same thing without another toy in my pocket I'm happier. Katy used to drill us weekly about hands and was very forthcoming with demo team trainer drills they developed. None used a device and I beleive in those activities because they simply work.


I'm not saying these devices are the end all! Just merely saying that they are of benefit to some students. It does provide immediate feedback to the student, without constant reminding by the instr. But as I also stated- other techniques /devices have been around for a long time, at less cost. Everything, from using old fashioned bungie cords to balancing a pole on the wrists is valid if used at the appropriate time.

More than anything else, it's an awareness device.

 

post #43 of 45

Yup. Hey if you have a chance please drop by the thread I linked and review the new stuff I posted, I would love to get your feedback on the 3D's and importance of functional core tension. Thanks in advance,

JASP

post #44 of 45

Freddie,

 

The device you sent me arrived today.  Thank you very much.  I will give it a try next season and post a critique here.  (If I remember.  rolleyes.gif)

 

It looks interesting.

 

T-Square

post #45 of 45
Thread Starter 

I received mine today too Freddie!  Thank you so much!!!

 

I'm going to try it out on my balance board to see if I can get a feel for it.  I'll let you know how it goes!  Thanks again!

 

~Anne~

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