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What happened to the '12 Patrollers fired at Sunshine Village' thread??? - Page 7

post #181 of 249
7/29/11 at 9:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

I don't know that SSV or the Scurfields have figured out this social media thing yet:

http://www.powdermag.com/stories/re-making-locals-jaded/

 

Kind of whiny and poorly thought out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

SSV submitted an editorial reply to Powder magazine, which they ran, over the whole issue. They make mention of the thread on TGR and that their C&D to them was because of the vitriolic and libelous language, not because of censorship (in there opinion). I like how they conveniently ignore the C&D sent here because our discussion of the matter was much more civilized than TGR so their argument doesn't hold water.

I specifically take offense at their claim in the article because of that. They used one of my posts as justification in the C&D letter. They claimed I took the quote out of context. I simply quoted one of the dismissed patrol members with direct knowledge of the situation and what he claimed went on. Until proven otherwise in a court of law his statement holds true as a witness to the situation and is not as far as I know considered libel if I quote him. Especially if his claim is filed to the court. I think it is very telling that the quote itself was not libel in that the C&D letter said the quote from Taylor Scurfield I posted they claimed was "taken out of context", not that he never said that. I still am not sure how claiming that "Me and my buddies could jump you and beat you up right now" (to paraphrase him) could be taken in another context. I guess the Scurfields argument is going to be that he has a misunderstood sarcastic wit that the patrol mistook as being a serious threat. I would happily believe their statement of defense if it wasn't for the fact that it just doesn't feel right. Their defense never adds up to being believable.

Thats my thoughts on the article^
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post #182 of 249
7/29/11 at 9:47am

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

Thats my thoughts on the article^


Sorry, I'm guilty of not reading the thread thoroughly.  Well said on your part.  

 

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post #183 of 249
10/4/11 at 8:17am

Any updates on this (the patroller's situation, not the removal of the original thread)?

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post #184 of 249
10/4/11 at 8:33am

I saw on their FB page yesterday that the Alberta Employment whateverthegovernmentagencythatinvestigatesstuff was investigating SSV for employment violations. 

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post #185 of 249
10/4/11 at 2:30pm

SSV management must be some of the most stupid SOBs on earth. The whole incident with ski patrol was garbage, but the world might just have forgotten about it in a year or two. In fact, people weren't even talking about it much when they went all communist party on the forums. Directly attacking and censoring the public debate is something I won't ever forget, and I'm betting a lot of other skiers and riders feel the same.

 

Sunshine Village was pretty high up on my list of places to check out. Now, I'll never go there. Sorry, Sunshine, you mishandled this situation beyond belief and no amount of spin is going to dig you out of that hole. Hell, I wouldn't even accept a paid trip there at this point, unless I could cash in on free airfare and go to Louise instead.

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post #186 of 249
10/4/11 at 2:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

I saw on their FB page yesterday that the Alberta Employment whateverthegovernmentagencythatinvestigatesstuff was investigating SSV for employment violations. 


 

Hearsay!!!!!!!!tongue.gif

 

 

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post #187 of 249
10/4/11 at 7:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylrwnzl View Post

I saw on their FB page yesterday that the Alberta Employment whateverthegovernmentagencythatinvestigatesstuff was investigating SSV for employment violations. 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

Hearsay!!!!!!!!tongue.gif

 

 

The Sunshine Village Watch (SVW) claims they have confirmation of an Alberta Employment Standards investigation in progress: http://sunshinevillagewatch.com/2011/09/30/employment-standards-investigation-in-progress/ .  The SVW article insinuates the investigation centers around not fully paying employees for their time worked.  Regardless, JoeUT has it right in his posting.  The 6th degree of separation is real.  The bad press and ill feelings that could of and should of been avoided will now be remembered for a lifetime.
 

 

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post #188 of 249
10/4/11 at 7:33pm

Interesting topic. It's always hard to judge from a distance, but between the resorts C&D actions and some of the specific responses in the defense filings I don't find them to be terribly credible.

 

The best is found in points 8 and 9 in Jr's filing.  Four paid patrollers abused the owner's son and his guests in that manner? Really?

 

BSmeter.gif

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post #189 of 249
11/3/11 at 5:07am

From the affidavit of Chris Chevalier, line item 43:

 

 

Quote:
I have reviewed an email sent by Taylor Scurfield that is insulting and abusive to the patrollers
involved, and expresses his pleasure with our dismissal in very insulting terms. This is consistent
wi th this threat to Chris Conway and to Charlie Hitchman that they would "pay" for enforcing
the Sunshine Village rules as against him. Out of respect for young Taylor Scurfield, I have not
attached that email here, although I note that he specifically says in his email, "I have a
responsibility to not be intimidated and bullied by low life losers who abuse what little power is
granted to them as ski patrollers"; "dont arrest the owners son and threaten him"; "I hope you
cant find a job"; and that our dismissals "were a blessing for the company". In light of the report
that he told Chris Conway that the patrollers were going to "pay" for their actions, I conclude
from this email that Taylor Scurfield was involved in the decision to dismiss the four Plaintiffs.

 

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post #190 of 249
12/19/11 at 1:30pm

Bump!!  In case you haven't decided where NOT to spend your holiday break...icon13.gif

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post #191 of 249
1/28/12 at 1:03pm

Any updates on the patrollers, their legal issues or the legal issues with epicski's business?

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post #192 of 249
1/28/12 at 7:03pm

Several of the management level people are now working for KPOW cat skiing which is own by and operated at Fortress Mountain. The resort side of the mountain has been shut down for several years now (maybe 6) due to losing their leases, condemned lodge, change of ownership (twice I think). It is good to see something happening at Fortress even though it is relatively expensive cat skiing and not lift based.

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post #193 of 249
1/29/12 at 6:16am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

SSV management must be some of the most stupid SOBs on earth. The whole incident with ski patrol was garbage, but the world might just have forgotten about it in a year or two. In fact, people weren't even talking about it much when they went all communist party on the forums. Directly attacking and censoring the public debate is something I won't ever forget, and I'm betting a lot of other skiers and riders feel the same.

 

Sunshine Village was pretty high up on my list of places to check out. Now, I'll never go there. Sorry, Sunshine, you mishandled this situation beyond belief and no amount of spin is going to dig you out of that hole. Hell, I wouldn't even accept a paid trip there at this point, unless I could cash in on free airfare and go to Louise instead.



By not going to SSV you are not missing much, especially if Delerium Dive happens to be closed. Unless, of course you like flat light and flat terrain.

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post #194 of 249
1/29/12 at 9:18am

actually there is pretty good skiing on Goat's Eye before that opened I would have agreed on the flat aspect. Unless you bushwacked or conditions allowed getting into what is now called Delirium. "Fired Patrollers" at some point the whole true story might come out. Until it does can't see it making any more diference on where i ski than firing of the patroller in Utah who swore at a boarder and whose buddy filmed it.   

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post #195 of 249
1/29/12 at 11:36am

It's not so much the firing of the patrollers for me. That's an internal situation much like the Snowbasin incident you reference. Unless I happened to know one of them and had the inside scoop, that wouldn't affect my travel plans.

 

The deciding factor was how SSV used its lawyers to try to censor the public discourse. I know they did it at TGR and I believe they did it here, too - basically sent some legalese that said the forums had to remove the defamatory posts about the resort. And by that they meant freedom of speech exercised by anonymous posters with a right to express their opinions. We're not talking about journalists here, but forum posters. Completely heavy handed and unacceptable, basically preying on the fact that people that the forum owners aren't going to want a legal battle.

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post #196 of 249
1/29/12 at 12:54pm

sounds a bit like nailing jello. These days how does anyone stop someone from saying what ever they like on line. I can see the resort wanting to curtail any obvious misinformation posted on a site they pay to advertise on, but can't see them thinking they might come out ahead by trying to get it removed. Suspect more likely the site (here) may have wanted to keep getting the revenue, if there was anything to the censorship in the first place.

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post #197 of 249
1/29/12 at 3:48pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by noncrazycanuck View Post

sounds a bit like nailing jello. These days how does anyone stop someone from saying what ever they like on line. I can see the resort wanting to curtail any obvious misinformation posted on a site they pay to advertise on, but can't see them thinking they might come out ahead by trying to get it removed. Suspect more likely the site (here) may have wanted to keep getting the revenue, if there was anything to the censorship in the first place.



We were sent a formal Cease and Desist letter from SSV's legal counsel. It's quite funny to read; They quoted one of my posts as justification for removal because I quoted Taylor Scurfield out of context. Specifically when he said that he and his buddies were going to jump the patrolman. So apparently there is a context where saying you're going to jump someone does not involved assault. 

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post #198 of 249
1/29/12 at 5:49pm

I'd just like to take this opportunity to say:

 

I was in Banff 2 weeks ago. Sunshine was 5 minutes away, and I skipped it.  Drove the 45 minutes to Lake Louise instead.

 

Money does talk.  Our money as consumers.  'nuff said.

 

 

 

And on a related note though:  it's not cool to vilify people who do go to Sunshine.  Somebody taking their kid for a day of fun, etc don't deserve ridicule either.  Make your own decisions and stand by them, but realize that other people have the right to make their own decisions as they see fit.  Respect their right to an opinion and choice, even if it doesn't agree with your own opinion.

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post #199 of 249
1/30/12 at 10:41am

Free speech, mang..  I can villify whomever I want to for whatever reason.  If you disagree, then have your lawyer send me a C&D letter

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post #200 of 249
1/30/12 at 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzanman View Post

Free speech, mang..  I can villify whomever I want to for whatever reason.  If you disagree, then have your lawyer send me a C&D letter



Sometimes the whole freedom of speech concept gets abused. There are plenty of types of speech that aren't free and plenty more that may be free in the strictest sense but are still in poor taste. Like vilifying someone for not sharing your personal opinions and priorities. People are free to use their wallet to support or not support whatever pseudo-political causes they want. Or not. Why anyone needs to vilify someone else for essentially having their own priorities is beyond me. Kind of sad on the person doing the vilifying, really. Sounds a lot like bandwagon bullying.

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post #201 of 249
1/30/12 at 11:31am

One person's abuse is another person's free exercise.  

 

There certainly are legal limits on what kind of speech is condoned in particular types of forums... but insulting a bunch of WASPs for not being conscientious enough/caring enough doesn't fall into that category.

 

I guess free speech starts to lose its luster when its directed at you, eh?  That is the price you pay for being afforded the right.

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post #202 of 249
1/30/12 at 11:45am

Not directed at me, certainly. I agree that people should run away from Sunshine en masse.

 

Still, copping freedom of speech when it comes to "vilifying" others is a drastic oversimplification. Freedom of speech relates to the government, not privately operated environments (forums). Chastising someone could quickly cross the line of forum regulations.

 

So to say "I can villify whomever I want to for whatever reason" is simply incorrect. Also, it's still kind of sad.

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post #203 of 249
1/30/12 at 11:51am

Well put!

 

In any event, I put my dollars elsewhere.  I actually asked a bunch of locals about SSV while on the lifts at Lake Louise.  Their response?  "It's an okay resort".  For the most part, the consensus was there are plenty of awesome places to visit other than SSV, don't lose sleep about it.  And I'm not.  Kicking Horse, Fernie, and Revel are on my To Do list.  SSV is somewhere much MUCH lower.

 

All the other stuff from SSV serves to confuse the issue.  Was he, or was he not, out of bounds?  Simple question, simple answer.  If "yes", then SSV can apologize and feel the wrath from paying customers.  If "no" then the patroller can apologize and life goes on.  I'm inclined to believe the former, by the way.

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post #204 of 249
1/30/12 at 12:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JoeUT View Post

Still, copping freedom of speech when it comes to "vilifying" others is a drastic oversimplification. Freedom of speech relates to the government, not privately operated environments (forums). Chastising someone could quickly cross the line of forum regulations.

 

So to say "I can villify whomever I want to for whatever reason" is simply incorrect. Also, it's still kind of sad.


Exactly true.  Vilifying someone just because you can is "bullying" plain and simple and there's no excuse for it.  It may be exercising freedom of speech but it is still bullying none the less and if the person doing it either doesn't know the difference or simply doesn't care, that's a sad individual.  There have been way too many instances of kids committing suicide because of incessant bullying over the last couple of years.

 

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post #205 of 249
1/30/12 at 4:48pm

Again, any updates on progress in the legal department?  On the status of the patrollers case?

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post #206 of 249
1/30/12 at 6:45pm

Do a search. Either here, TGR or Google. I believe there was something posted here or TGR, but I didn't look closely at it. It's out there if you want it.

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post #207 of 249
1/31/12 at 9:38am

Thanks for your suggestion, Joe.  There is some mention that the patrollers have found new employment, but nothing on the court case, which is why I'm asking if anyone has current information. 

 

I wonder how much Sunshine management enjoys defending the right of the owner's son be be an obnoxious, spoiled brat who got patrollers fired for enforcing the basic rules of any resort.  Young Mr. Scurfield could have been the kid killed in the closed area at Vail this season.  I wonder what Scurfield the elder would have said after the kid died and the patrollers told him they let his kid ski in dangerous areas and did nothing about it because they knew daddy would fire them if he complained. 


Edited by mike_m - 1/31/12 at 10:01am
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post #208 of 249
1/31/12 at 6:15pm

Probably not much as it sounds as if his father was killed in an avalanche while heli-skiing as a direct result of disregarding his guides instructions.  You might think he would be extra sensitive to the risks of skiing in avalanche terrain and the need for safety protocols.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mike_m View Post

Thanks for your suggestion, Joe.  There is some mention that the patrollers have found new employment, but nothing on the court case, which is why I'm asking if anyone has current information. 

 

I wonder how much Sunshine management enjoys defending the right of the owner's son be be an obnoxious, spoiled brat who got patrollers fired for enforcing the basic rules of any resort.  Young Mr. Scurfield could have been the kid killed in the closed area at Vail this season.  I wonder what Scurfield the elder would have said after the kid died and the patrollers told him they let his kid ski in dangerous areas and did nothing about it because they knew daddy would fire them if he complained. 



 

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post #209 of 249
11/22/12 at 10:28am

Hey,

 

It's been a while.... From what I can gather the main case is due for discovery by the end of the year, so no further progress there.

 

However, SSV has raised a claim of it's own as reported here:

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgary/story/2012/11/18/calgary-sunshine-village-suing.html

 

http://www.edmontonjournal.com/news/Sunshine+Village+suing+former+employees+over+boycott/7572849/story.html

 

I took a trip to the courthouse and got the latest claim:

 

http://ramzee.net/Files/SSVStatementOfClaim.pdf

 

The rest of the documents are still available here:

 

http://wp.me/p11ESp-2em

 

Enjoy!

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post #210 of 249
11/22/12 at 12:57pm

Wild world where what's considered true and real in terms of an individual's character (or a corporation's rolleyes.gif) totally depends on how much money you can pump in to litigation instead of what the facts actually are..

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