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Announcement about EpicSki Academy - Page 3

post #61 of 84

Took a long hiatus from the boards this summer and came back to find ESA cancelled for the season ... eek.gif

 

To say I'm disappointed is a woeful understatement!  Although I only managed 2 ESAs at Stowe, both clinics were among the highlites of my skiing career.  I learned more, skied better and met more cool, fun people during those 4 days than I ever could have imagined.  I was certainly looking forward to #3 this year ... and really regret that won't be able to happen.

 

I'll certainly offer my $0.02 on why I attended and a couple of thoughts for attracting more skiers

 

First, Stowe was an easy call for me.  It was local (no airfare to worry about).  It was on the weekend (no work to miss).  It was early season (proper time to tune up the skills).  2 days was perfect for me ... enough concentrated time to build some skills, but short enough to make the cost "reasonable".

 

I could never justify Snowmass or the other western ESAs.  Those events would have required 4-5 days away from work, home and family during the middle of the week.  Had it been during school vacation week, I could have made it a family trip and taken a day or two for a clinic.  After my kids are both in college, the dynamics change but for now it's hard to call for a midweek ski trip out west on my own.  

 

Ironically, a weekend ski clinic out west *might* be in the cards.  I know its lousy time for instruction competing with the weekend crowds, but a Sat-Sun clinic at one of the SLC resorts could be done with a late Fri flight in and an early Monday flight out.  (One of the best things about Utah for us east-coasters is the travel logistics!)

 

I think that attendance may have been hurt somewhat by requiring an EpicSki membership.  Sure, give (HUGE!) discounts for members, but opening up the event to non-members might draw a larger crowd.  (I had a friend, who has never been on EpicSki, interested in this year's Stowe event ... just saying)  Promoting the event beyond this site may lead to both increased event attendance and increased site traffic.  Creating and promoting the brand value of EpicSki is really important to drawing new members and sparking interest in the clinics.

 

The best instruction (imho) comes from an instructor who teaches you what you need to know rather than what you want to know.  That said, many of us look for clinics that are specific to our own perceived needs - steeps, bumps, trees, etc.  I think that offering more targeted workshops would attract more skiers who just don't want a general skills clinic - no matter how good it might be.  Further development of "themes" for the event will give it more focus and more perceived value.  Bud's Synergy Camp is a good example, where focus on alignment and stance is something that most skiers would value highly and won't likely get at a general clinic.

 

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but I really do hope to see another ESA in my future.  I already miss my friends from ESA Stowe frown.gif


Edited by OldEasternSkier - 11/7/11 at 7:48pm
post #62 of 84

We miss you too!

post #63 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

We miss you too!



What he said!.

post #64 of 84

Actually....  IMO the weekend is a great time for a lesson.  Real lessons through the areas ski school come with line cutting privileges so you get more slope time than the crowds standing in the public line.  Also crowds tend to mean fast skiing might be out of the picture, when would a better time for a lesson be?  I don't know if ESA gets area privileges or not, if not then more reason for them to function during the week.  If they are paying the appropriate "kick back" to the areas SS, then they should get the privileges associated with lessons.

 

As far as an Epic membership goes...  I think it cost about $30, right?  Not a huge percentage of the cost of an ESA and it comes with other benefits like the Promotive hook-up for one that can easily compensate the small cost of an Epic membership.

post #65 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Actually....  IMO the weekend is a great time for a lesson.  Real lessons through the areas ski school come with line cutting privileges so you get more slope time than the crowds standing in the public line.  Also crowds tend to mean fast skiing might be out of the picture, when would a better time for a lesson be?  

 

Well, I feel strongly the other way. I did that Breck race camp last year, and it was on a weekend. The coaching etc was all great, but I felt overwhelmed by trying to concentrate both on doing and learning what I was trying to do and learn and on avoiding the people around me. My other two lesson experiences were both at small, empty hills ... both on weekdays, I'm pretty sure. There were no lines, so privileges were useless.  I think I learned a lot better, though, and I'll remember that in the future.
 

 

post #66 of 84

Just a point of order...the Breck race camp was not an ESA event.

post #67 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post

Just a point of order...the Breck race camp was not an ESA event.



? Neither are TPJ's lessons. I was just presenting another viewpoint...

post #68 of 84

The comment was for those who don't know what that race event was.

But really, I can't evaluate what either of you are saying, because I don't know your Cred points.

 

Please submit your user rating, aka Cred Points, so we can evaluate your statements in the full glow of a tablet.

This will enable us to figure out who's who here.

Maybe you both are from the dark side of the moon.

 

my cred rating is 45  (I was robbed and will launch a protest)

post #69 of 84

I MUST be AWESOME....  I have 51 cred points!
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

The comment was for those who don't know what that race event was.

But really, I can't evaluate what either of you are saying, because I don't know your Cred points.

 

Please submit your user rating, aka Cred Points, so we can evaluate your statements in the full glow of a tablet.

This will enable us to figure out who's who here.

Maybe you both are from the dark side of the moon.

 

my cred rating is 45  (I was robbed and will launch a protest)



 

post #70 of 84

Just a suggestion on my part.  I would encourage you or anyone else to do what works best for you.  It's not self serving on my part, because I generally prefer to teach on weekdays.  My non-peak schedule is usually Mon-Fri.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

 

Well, I feel strongly the other way. I did that Breck race camp last year, and it was on a weekend. The coaching etc was all great, but I felt overwhelmed by trying to concentrate both on doing and learning what I was trying to do and learn and on avoiding the people around me. My other two lesson experiences were both at small, empty hills ... both on weekdays, I'm pretty sure. There were no lines, so privileges were useless.  I think I learned a lot better, though, and I'll remember that in the future.
 

 



 

post #71 of 84

TPJ Trust me when I say that we've considered that and may do such a thing in the future plans.  

 

At the time we were doing a full week weekday event, it was because that was what the students asked for.  What we need to work with is that "things" are different and we need to answer the pleas of students and those potential students of the here and now.

 

Thanks for the ideas. 

 

post #72 of 84

I like the weekday event! That doesn't preclude doing a different type of weekend one though.

 

Yes, TPJ, you are awesome!

post #73 of 84

Sorry, I didn't mean to throw this topic off the rails. That's what happens when I read New Posts and don't pay attention to the context. I was just remembering how much I disliked skiing and thinking in a crowd. (and no, it wasn't even that horribly crowded... it's just me...)

 

Just don't take away my CRED points!!

post #74 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

Sorry, I didn't mean to throw this topic off the rails. That's what happens when I read New Posts and don't pay attention to the context. I was just remembering how much I disliked skiing and thinking in a crowd. (and no, it wasn't even that horribly crowded... it's just me...)

 

Just don't take away my CRED points!!



FWIW, we can run into some major lift lines at the weekend event at Stowe if conditions are just right, but since its the second weekend of December we don't usually have a huge issue.  The one time I recall having massive lift lines, it was a real drag.  IIRC the coaches spent a lot of time on trails doing drills and taking a lot of time to get back to the lift. 

It was a great event, but IMHO its always better when the lift lines are not massive. 

post #75 of 84

And my point was not even the liftlines as much as trying to do drills and learn things in the middle of other skiers who are going all different speeds and directions at all different levels of control.... But of course they (lines and crowded slopes) usually go hand in hand. Just having an instructor to speed you through the line doesn't help the crowd factor on the slope. I suppose if I took more lessons I would be more comfortable having to think and ski at the same time, though.

post #76 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by segbrown View Post

And my point was not even the liftlines as much as trying to do drills and learn things in the middle of other skiers who are going all different speeds and directions at all different levels of control.... But of course they (lines and crowded slopes) usually go hand in hand. Just having an instructor to speed you through the line doesn't help the crowd factor on the slope. I suppose if I took more lessons I would be more comfortable having to think and ski at the same time, though.



Point taken.  I quite agree with you.

Weekend clinics can make for crowded lift lines, crowded slopes and crowded lodges.  Great for fitting into a busy work schedule but may not be ideal for fighting crowds.   The trick is to find the balance to fill the need of the student outcry. th_dunno-1[1].gif

 

I think we'll put Bob in charge of that biggrin.gif

 

 

post #77 of 84

Quote:

Originally Posted by segbrown View Post.

 

I was just remembering how much I disliked skiing and thinking in a crowd. (and no, it wasn't even that horribly crowded... it's just me...)

 

Just don't take away my CRED points!!

 

Oh, so you only outrun people at A-Basin when it's not crowded?  smile.gif

What's all this thinking going on? Yes, it's Bob and "From Nothing" for you!

 

Don't worry, no one can take away your Cred points!

Although getting stuck in the snow and using beer to get out....hmmm...not sure which way that moves it!

post #78 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Quote:

 

Oh, so you only outrun people at A-Basin when it's not crowded?  smile.gif

What's all this thinking going on? Yes, it's Bob and "From Nothing" for you!

 

Don't worry, no one can take away your Cred points!

Although getting stuck in the snow and using beer to get out....hmmm...not sure which way that moves it!


Yo!

Brah!

Sup!?

 

 

post #79 of 84

Not much.

Waiting for the epic ski so I can shred with my new boots and blow up the honeys doing mach 5.

Did I mention how rad I was? I've got 45 points. (no, not Fis..)

post #80 of 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tog View Post

Although getting stuck in the snow and using beer to get out....hmmm...not sure which way that moves it!



No movement: minus for getting stuck, plus for creative usage of beer.

post #81 of 84

Joining this thread very late. Story of my life. Sorry about that. Anyway, I was very tempted by the Stowe event, but the cost - $600 before food and lodging? Do I remember right? - was way too high for two days. I think it was going to be close to a grand for me to attend the weekend, all in. (Maybe I mis-remember the logistics, in which case I apologize. But I seem to remember reading that there was a de facto home-base hotel where off-slope activities were centered, and which was the obvious lodging choice, but it was kind of on the high end, price-wise.) I say this even having taken to heart Bob Barnes's sensible observation that it's irrational how much time and money we spend on equipment, when toys are only side shows on the road to improvement and the fun that comes with it. Better we should spend that time and money on coaching. Point taken. But from a ski budget perspective, I have to weigh the fact that I can (and will) spend a full 6 day / 7 night week in Colorado - including airfare, lodging, food, transportation, and lift tickets - for a price within a hundred bucks or so of what it would cost me to make the deceptively long drive over to Stowe, for just two days at Epic Academy. I can't justify it. If I could get two half-day sessions over a two-day weekend for, say, $250, at someplace a bit closer by, I would probably be up for that.

post #82 of 84

For those who may have missed it, Bud Heishman is offering a Two Day Synergy Camp during the Tahoe Gathering.  This is a great opportunity!

 

http://www.epicski.com/t/106449/two-day-synergy-camp

post #83 of 84

Boy am I out of the loop!  Having been blest with a few of the early ESA events I know that they were top quality people putting in serious work for little return and even fewer thanks. Please allow me to say "Thank You" now even though it's way late. My wife has been commenting recently how great the training was and how much better her skiing improved after attending ESA. I can see how trying to meet constantly growing demands at diminishing attendance would be frustrating. One possible idea to kick around:

What if instead of all day group instruction each coach had a morning group from say 9-11:30 and an afternoon group say 1:30-4?

 

There is still the issue's of co-ordination, payment, commitment of attendees and all the work that goes into putting something like this together but there should be some way to spread it out.

 

Thanks again for all you have done to make so many of us ski better and have more fun doing it.

post #84 of 84
Thread Starter 

Thank you, Ryel. We really appreciate the nice feedback.

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