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SL race plate queston

post #1 of 28
Thread Starter 

I am looking to get a new pair of 2010 race stock SL volkl with bindings but no race plate.  (I am a high school racer).  What are the advantages/disadvantages of having/using a race plate, and is it worth spending the money on one?

post #2 of 28

its all about lift giving you a bigger lever arm to edge easier (smaller movements to get on edge) and 2) to avoid boot out.

 

As long as the stock bindings are high enough off the base/edge they will  be fine

 

post #3 of 28
Thread Starter 

thanks for the reply,  but can you just explain what a boot out is and how "high" would be high enough from the base?

post #4 of 28

If you don't know what booting out is, you're unlikely to have it happen.

 

However, I'll still explain. Booting out occurs when your skis are on such a high edge, the side of your boot hits the snows and often causes you to fall by pulling your boot out of your bindings or just dragging you into the ground.  By having a riser plate, that edge angle needs to be much higher because the wide part of your boot is further from the edge.

 

  

without riser

 

boot       |                      |

ski              |----------|

 

draw a line from the boot and edge.

 

now put the boot higher on a riser

boot       |                      |

 

ski              |----------|

 

Draw a line, see how much more perpendicular that angle is?

 

 

FIS limits the height of rise, which includes race plate + binding lift + ski thickness. I don't recall exactly what the number is, because I don't race FIS. But i think its about 55mm.

 

But I believe anywhere between 2-4cm total is fine.

 

post #5 of 28
Thread Starter 

thanks for insight.  by the way i have done that before, just never knew what it was called.  

 

But would it be inperitive to get a race plate, a riser plate, or would i be fine with just the ski and the binding?

post #6 of 28

Nothing is imperative, but a plate would allow you to get higher edge angles without booting out. It depends how far up the performance ladder you wish to climb. The winners of your SL races will likely have plates on their skis and will be hitting the gates with their shin and pole guards.

 

Have you raced SL yet? Did you hit the gates? Were you in the top 10 or so at a race? Are you going to be using pole guards, shin guards and a face guard?

 

These questions will help us understand your competition level.

post #7 of 28
Thread Starter 

Yes i have race SL,  Yes i do hit the gates (combo of blocking and shinning),  I averaged around 11ish in my league, I used everything but a face guard, which i am going to get a face guard next year.  this past year was my first year racing and i am racing the the NJ highschool league.

post #8 of 28

It sounds like you do pretty well in your league, congratulations. If you think back, did most of the kids that beat you have race skis with plates on their skis? If so, to be competitive, you'll want the plate.

post #9 of 28
Thread Starter 
I don't remember whether or not they all do, but the one kid better than me on my team defiantly did. I would assume that most of them didi since the majority of them race USSA. I also used "consumer skis" last year. Based on this I get the feeling that you would advise a plate.


Thanks for the help:p
post #10 of 28

For racing and hard snow carving plates seem to be the norm for the reasons pointed out here. Increased leverage and decreased chance of booting out.

post #11 of 28
Plates also make the skis bend in a more even way
post #12 of 28


My kids raced for years. And I race Masters. I have never EVER seen any one on a Slalom ski with no plate. Only a couple of manufacturers (Volkl, Stockli and may Blizzard even produce their Slalom race ski (or even Rec. SL ski) without an integral plate.

 

Most of those skis(Particulalrly Volkl) use a Marker Race binding which is the Comp. 20 EPS or Comp 16 EPS on a Marker World cup PC Interface . There used to be 2 model, s one for Speed and one for Slalom. The plates are 11mm in the front and 9 in the rear. The binding standheights are 19mm So you are 30MM plus the ski. I belieive the standheight Max. is 50MM (Ski, Plate Binding) so this would leave you 20MM for your ski. But I assume since Volkl and Marker are relative companies (at least Marketed together) the binding and plate and ski combo meets FIS & USSA rules.
 
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skisalot View Post

I don't remember whether or not they all do, but the one kid better than me on my team defiantly did. I would assume that most of them didi since the majority of them race USSA. I also used "consumer skis" last year. Based on this I get the feeling that you would advise a plate.
 


Thanks for the help:p


 


Edited by Atomicman - 6/1/11 at 11:30am
post #13 of 28

As stated, Volkl race skis are one of the few that doesnt come with a plate.

 

If you are going to use Marker bindings, I have a pair of Marker World Cup plates from 4 or 5 seasons ago sitting in my workroom I could sell you. PM me if interested

 

Richr

post #14 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoal007 View Post

its all about lift giving you a bigger lever arm to edge easier (smaller movements to get on edge)

 

 

Just a slight clarification to what you stated.  The longer lever arm allows you to 'hold' an edge easier (forces against the ski are more easily counteracted by the longer lever arm given by a plate).

 

And a correction.  A longer lever arm (with the addition of a plate) requires bigger movements (not smaller) to tip the ski the same amount (the end of the lever must move a longer distance through the arc to tip the ski the same number of degrees).

post #15 of 28
Thread Starter 

Would a "marker 11 mm spacer" work instead of a race plate if not what would be the main diffrences

post #16 of 28


You might be illegal. since the WC Piston Interface is only 9mm in the rear. You need to measure your ski thickness where the highest point of the heel piece meeets your boot and then add 30MM (19 Binding plus 11mm ) to assure you are 50MM or less.My guess is you'd be fine. Also a spacer may not give you as positve and interface as the plate. (You don't want any play or torqueing of the spacer between the binding and the ski.

 

Also you would not have the Piston Control Mechnism

http://www.marker.net/en/products/World-Cup-Piston-Control-Interface 

 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by skisalot View Post

Would a "marker 11 mm spacer" work instead of a race plate if not what would be the main diffrences



 

post #17 of 28

Do HS races have rules for gear?

post #18 of 28
Thread Starter 

In my league pretty much anything goes.  Definatly not FIS regulations. In GS most kids use SL skis.

post #19 of 28

Although, if the league is part of the New Jersey Interscholastic ski racing Association USSA rules apply.

 

and yeah I am sure slaloms are OK in GS until someone Podiums on them and the protests come out!

 

In other words if you are in the top ranks, you'll get scrutinized, at least from all my past experience.

 

If you are coming in 59 out of 60 no one cares!


Edited by Atomicman - 6/5/11 at 11:23am
post #20 of 28
Thread Starter 

I just found this on from NJISRA.

 

 "Boots, Anti vibration Plates and Skis

SECTION 2.

a. The maximum heights between the lower part of the ski and the ski boot sole shall comply with national and international standards listed on www.ussa.org.

b. The maximum height between the bottom of the ski boot sole and the base of the skier’s heel shall comply with national and international standards.

c. Poles must have baskets

d. Failure to comply with equipment standards shall result in a disqualification.

e. Coaches should note, that although there is no ski length requirement, and also that www.ussa.org lists length requirements, which will affect anyone racing in USSA races and Eastern Regional Competition.  Please check that site for current ski length rules as they apply to both GS and Slalom. " 

 

good call on the height requirement actually having an effect.

 

 

post #21 of 28

While I have heard of protests regarding ski length and radius, I have never heard of anyone outside of world cup being protested regarding binding stand height or boot sole height. If you had a ridiculous amount of lift, so that other coaches could tell by looking that they were illegal, and if you were competitive, there could be a protest. But using an older race plate that is 2 mm too high is not going to get protested at a high school or USSA race.

 

Richr

post #22 of 28

I have seen both boot and standheight issues at USSA races as low as J3.

post #23 of 28

Just spend an extra 50-100 bucks and plate it, it's worth it.

post #24 of 28


icon14.gif +1
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by RaceDude View Post

Just spend an extra 50-100 bucks and plate it, it's worth it.



 

post #25 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by skisalot View Post

I am looking to get a new pair of 2010 race stock SL volkl with bindings but no race plate.


Why would you do this? If you can't get a ski/plate/binding then buy a consumer SL ski with integrated binding, going Race Stock and skipping the plate just does not make any sense.

 

post #26 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

I have seen both boot and standheight issues at USSA races as low as J3.


Did they ship the gear off for measurement?  I thought that with boot sole thickness, it takes a special measurement tool that they only have at world cup races and at Park City headquarters.

 

post #27 of 28


Actually they pulled some kids from the start.  I beleive those incidents were back when the boot standheight rule was first instituted and The Atomic race boot with the red lugs was illegal.

 

It was then a new Atomic  boot my kid was skiing in and we had to buy him a  Salomon WC Course boot. The rules had been published after we bought the boot. I don't remeber what the height rule was then, but I beleive it was 50mm which was marked right on the boot. When you add a custom orthotic, they were illegal.

 

I've seen other protests on stack height and ski length/radius.   But yes they were going to confiscate boots and send them to be measured. As a matter of fact, Atomic manufactured the measurement tool and an official showed up at some races with one and measured anyones boots who was interested.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richr View Post




Did they ship the gear off for measurement?  I thought that with boot sole thickness, it takes a special measurement tool that they only have at world cup races and at Park City headquarters.

 



 

post #28 of 28
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post


icon14.gif +1
 



 



I have played w/ all kinds of combos: boots & plates/shims...........my wife on the other hand always go w/ the stock set ups.  Funny thing, those WC folks know what they are talking about.  I now go w/ the factory advised set ups & maybe only play w/ toe shims on the speed skis.  Spend the $$$ & get the real plate to go w/ the skis. 

 

 

 

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