Reason to use skinnier skis for heliskiing

I don't run a heli op, so I can only guess as to their motivation, but I can come up with a couple of guesses.

 

1. They don't want to replace their gear every year with the latest and trendiest skis.  It's just not worth the money.

2. Look at all the ridiculous fighting that happens on here when fat skis are discussed.  "I wanna ski in the powder, not on it, blah blah blah."  And that's here, where people are (IMO) much more knowledgable about gear than the general public.  So, the point is, does Joe Sixpack D.D.S. want Pontoons to ski on during his heli-trip?  Maybe, but I bet some people would prefer something more similar to what they normally ski, just fatter.

3. And to build on #2, how many people that *do* want to ski on something like a Pontoon already own one and plan on bringing it with them? If that's a substantial percentage, that further reduces the need to have many on hand.

 

All just guesses, someone at CMH or somewhere else would have to tell us why they've made the decisions they have.

 

Oh, and if the worst part about my heli-skiing trip is that I have to ski on Coomba's?  I'm pretty sure I'd get over it.

Isn't CMH popular with the European set?

Are fat skis (105 and over) used alot in the Alps?

And a semi midfat might be a good choice for

mixed conditions.

It's probably for people who don't have their own pow skis and thus would probably be worried about going straight to say an ARG but a coomba might look more "doable" to them.  Most people who want to ski R/R or Pintail/superfat planks and such will own them anyways so a 100mm board might not be ideal for someone like you or I on a heli trip- but I'm sure there's people out there who think their Supershape Speeds are, like, the most badass ski ever and they're going to kill it on them who will be blown away by a coomba.       

CMH most likely buys their skis in bulk for all ten lodges, and are probably shooting for a lowest common denominator type ski, so nothing real radical,  Also, I assume they get them for free or at a huge discount because it is fantastic advertising to be the skis that CMH uses, so they may not be in a position to order anything they want.

 

The other issue is weight.  Every run the guide has to take 11 pairs of skis and lift them from the snow into the basket on the chopper, and then take them all out again at the top. Last time I skied with them several years ago all the guides were wearing back brace support belts. I am sure they are not real keen on lifting fatter heavier skis all day every day.

 

 

I know this is true. But I also know they are not keen on load management or safety issues arising due to customers doing face plants, losing skis, getting exhausted & wanting to go back to base, etc...

I agree, but considering they are skiing nothing but untracked, I doubt if the customers are flailing badly on Coombas.
 

 

That was exactly my thought: if you can't ski untracked on 100 mm without face planting all day, maybe a heli trip is not the right place for you...

 

My other thought is that if turn farming is necessary, it isn't so tempting to go zooming across the snow on a traditional ski as it is on a rockered fatty. 

 

1. They replace their skis almost every season so no...

 

3. People can not bring their own skis on CMH trips, they supply the skis to the guests..
 

 

 

The last time I went we were all on Volkl Explosivs.  One of the guests was an old guy that got tired more easily, so they put him on some fatter Atomics.  The more vertical you ski, the more money they make, so they definitely try to accommodate anyone who is not keeping up. 

I have a pair of CMH Explosiv.

 

I could not imagine a ski offering more pleasure in deep powder, crud, or late season mank

 

I would be disappointed if they offered anything less...;-)

IIRC (AT skiing manuals discuss this)...one word...keep a-v-a-l-a-n-c-h-e risk at a minimum. In other words, once a guide assests that
a certain area of the slope is "safe" to ski, then all the groups ought to stick as close to it as possible and not wander around in non assesed (tested by the guide) terrain...
The more one zooms around a field, the more risk of triggering an avalanche by hitting one of the "fracture points"...

From what I have heard, Alaska heli skiing generally has different texture snow and much steeper terrain than the southern Canada CMH areas, so fatter rockered skis are a more appropriate tool.

 

The CMH posters almost always show above tree line wide open terrain, which is often skiing on glaciers.  As Nobody noted, the guides do not want you GSing all over the place and starting avalanches or falling into crevasses.  They also try to farm the snow to allow everyone to get untracked.  If you are in the first group and GS the glacier, your are hogging too much untracked, which everyone paid a lot of money to ski. Although the pictures make it look like unlimited skiing, the safe good snow is often limited.

 

FYI, many repeat CHM customers consider the Monoshees Lodge to have the best skiing because of all the steep nicely spaced tree skiing, and find it preferable to the open glacier skiing. It just doesn't make for awe inspiring poster pictures.

We (Great Canadian Heli-Skiing) use the Armada JJs as our fleet ski which are 115 underfoot. Our guests absolutely love them. In fact, they ski so well, quite a few of our guides have purchased their own pair..... and so have I, and I'm mostly a snowboarder!

 

We find the JJs the perfect ski because it allows experienced powder skier to rip in the deep snow and at the same time it enables those with less powder experience to handle the conditions much better than on skinner skis.

 

On the flip side, we don't go crazy fat because, believe it or not, it's not always super deep powder! Haha. The 115 is a good compromise because it is very versatile.

 

"Mudfoot" had a good point about the weight of the skis and guides having to repeatedly lift them in/out of the basket all day long. They don't want a load of super heavy skis. Lucky for us, we operate in what we believe is the best format: that is just 4 guests in 1 group! So that no doubt saves our guides back a bit.......... but maybe not..since we offer UNLIMITED vertical on all our trips, we do LOTS of runs....so lots of loading and unloading for the guides! Yeah "poor guides" :p

 

"Mudfoot" also had another good point about the old guy that they put on fatter skis. With a wider surface area, people aren't sinking as far into the snow, so less effort is required. This translates to guests being able to ski more and for longer, so they leave stoked!

I bought some Line Prophet 115 (179 cm) this past season and went cat skiing with K3 Cats in late March. In boot top to knee deep fairly light snow for late March, I did not really like the skis. I'm an old guy, wide stance skier who brings his feet together in powder and I just found the skis too fat. I do like to slow down in powder and make as many turns as possible (for me). I do not like to go super fast GS in the pow. BTW K3 Cats offered 90cm wide Prior skis to their customers.

 

At the end of the season I sold my Line Prophets and got some Elan 888s (177cm), so as long as I am not skiing wet coastal snow the mid fat 888s will work for me.

Prophet 100s work just fine for me

Just as a devil's advocate to those of you who want to bring your own skis...

 

CMH has been in business for decades, they've had tons of trial and error, and their business depends on return customers.  Is it so unbelievably hard to imagine that whatever equipment policy they might have is based on years (and millions of vertical feet of powder skiing) of experience???  I'm pretty sure their guides and regular clients are aware that there are fatter, funkier-shaped skis out there.  I'm pretty sure they would change if they honestly thought their client experience would be better (and ergo more profitable for the operator) on something different.

 

I mean - jeez - you can't ski perfect powder on Coombas?  

 

 

One of the things that the guys at K3 Cat Skiing said was that although they offer use of Prior skis at no charge, they don't insist on clients using them because they realize that some people will do better skiing their own skis that they are used to rather than spending part of the day getting comfortable on a new ski. Makes sense to me.

Until we hear directly from someone from CMH, I'm not going to believe that they force their clients to ski only on CMH skis.

 

Castle Dave: I have skied the Line Prophet 100s and liked them a lot, they are Line's most popular ski, but after losing $ on the resale of my Line 115s I got the used Elan 888 (very low mileage) for $250 with bindings and couldn't turn them down. Also as I mentioned in a previous post, I bang my skis togrther a lot and I have concluded that from a durability stand point I need a ski with a metal top sheet and the Elan 888 fits the bill.

Excellent - the most important thing is that they work for you.
 

 

Sorry, I should not have said "can't", it's not that you can't, but they don't want you to....

 

 

Google it, the quote is from their site.

We allow guests to bring their own skis but we do check them out in case they are too skinny and we know the guest will struggle and have a hard time.

 

I remember skiing with H20 in Alaska and this dude insisted he ripped on his skinny skis (this was ages ago, before fats really took off). Needless to say, the dude struggled. Lucky the guides at H20 were switched on and had put a spare pair of fats in the basket! Covered in sweat and breathing heavily he soon clicked into the fats!

 

You know what the main problem we see with guests and their own gear? It's their own boots! We see lots of boots that have lots of wear on the heel and toe pieces...which means the fit in the bindings aren't as snug. And of course when you are in the powder there is more resistance on the ski and people can pop out much more easier than on groomed slopes.

 

The problem I have with that logic is that there isn't a single ski out that that is universally liked by everyone who skis it.  Can I ski perfect powder on Coombas?  Sure.  But just maybe I'd have even more fun skiing it on a different ski that I've found to really love, through my own trial and error.  And if it's my dime, I'd probably at least like the option to do that, depending on what skis the operator has to offer me.
 

 

One of the best reasons not  to take your own skis to CHM is that every run they get thrown in a pile with 10 other pairs of skis, then thrown in a basket on the copter with all the other skis, and then thrown in the snow in a pile again at the top of the run.  By the end of the week they have take a beaten when they were not even on your feet. Plus, if you happen to lose one they just give you another pair.  Bob is right, they know what they are doing when they supply skis for free to their customers

Haven't gone heli skiing yet, but wonder if the company's choices are also about controlling the skis in BC/AK conditions. Given the prices, assume that the group usually includes some well-off guys who may not be strong skiers (insert disclaimer: Yep, I know one can be a good skier and have money, and yep, I know that one can be a poor skier and save for a heli trip, and yep...). But as an operator, do you really want an intermediate skier planing on a big slope that may have don't-go-there boundaries? I'd want them down in the snow just enough to create speeds they're comfortable handling, but not so much that they struggle to turn. For an average weight male, IME a 100-105 will be about right for that in BC/AK density pow. The fun shapes, like JJ's, probably are an exception, I'd definitely go that way for anything that might involve trees and more turns, slower speeds yet. Just a thought. 

 

If I dropped thousands of dollars for a week-long heli trip, enjoyment of the skiing would be far more important to me than my skis getting a little banged up.  Not saying I'd insist on skiing my own skis, but sure would want the option depending on what they had to offer.

"Thrown" may not be the most appropriate verb, but my experience after doing several heli trips, some with my own skis and some with CMH's is that it is much less hassle just to use theirs'.  They also usually have a few other models to choose from if you do not like their standard boards, but sizes may be limited. The bottom line is that I think it is unlikely you will end up on skis you do not like. Heck, it is all untracked snow, so the forgiveness factor is generally pretty high, but if you want to bring your own skis I do not think they will stop you. At least they have not in years past.

Really?  That seems like an odd thing to do.  I've sen people try and take they're 70mm frontside carvers out, only to be convinced by the guides to take the supplied skis. 

 

Every time i've been cat/heli skiing i've brought my own skis, with no issues.
 

 

Turn farming. 

 

For some reason, it's good marketing for rich Euro's.