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Does this look like an A-Frame to you? - Page 6

post #151 of 167

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

The fact that even up through the world cup we still see cup winners using a more vertical inside shin should also make you question the validity of posts that promote inside leg carving as more than it is. 

 


The counterpoint is that the fact that we see WC winners with an inside ski that is carving should make you question the validity of posts that promote inside ski skidding.
 

 

post #152 of 167

We really do see thing similarly Ski, we just don't call it exactly the same thing but that O.K.

I'm not really advocating skidding, just sayin that as long as the ski is traveling along it's long axis the drag is minimal.  Carving, or even if it's not a clean carve still provides directional control and prevents the ski from bouncing off line and making the skier blow up.


Edited by justanotherskipro - 6/10/11 at 10:57am
post #153 of 167

Timing is everything.  A-frame at apex is ok because from that point on, skis converging is good in most cases.  A-frame at turn initiation, not so good in most cases.  (there are always exceptions, but they only prove the rule ;) )

post #154 of 167

How much is too much?

If the inside ski is so flat to the snow that it's skidding instead of carving, that's too much of an A-frame.

post #155 of 167

Not if that's the intent Ghost. Again it really comes down what the skier is trying to do. Especially near the transition phase.

post #156 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Not if that's the intent Ghost. Again it really comes down what the skier is trying to do. Especially near the transition phase.


True enough; when you know what your doing well enough, you can do whatever you like.

 

post #157 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Not if that's the intent Ghost.

 

How often is a racer's intent to skid as much as possible?

post #158 of 167

Skiding the inside ski while carving the outside ski is very seldom my intent, but I never say never.  Oh! wait.  I just did. [Homer Simpson voice] D'oh! [/Homer Simpson voice]

post #159 of 167

Ski, Every time they go out and drill gates, slip or inspect, and even when they stivot during a race. So many of these activities get overlooked by casual observers.  If anything their skidding skills are just as developed as their carving skills.

post #160 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Ski, Every time they go out and drill gates, slip or inspect, and even when they stivot during a race. So many of these activities get overlooked by casual observers.  If anything their skidding skills are just as developed as their carving skills.

 

 

In this thread ( http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/99739/the-only-people-who-want-to-carve-any-more/240#post_1305776 ) there was a quote by a US ski team member who has represented his country both on the World Cup and in the Olympics.  His comments on stivots are highlighted in blue.  Note that he says that stivoting skills are not something that are actively trained by team members.  He asserts they are learnt as a beginner skiing in the wedge.  JASP seems to suggest that Nyman is a "casual observer" of the sport ...eek.gif  Nyman's more general comment on skidding skills is "learn to carve then learn to carve tighter." 
 

Quote: By Steven Nyman, member US Ski Team
To be frank. DONT STIVOT unless you have to. Being able to carve and go direct is way faster. We never practice the stivot and it isnt fast. Like Bode said is is a method to control speed. You carve to gain speed and you stivot to slow down. We never train it it is just something that happens. You learn it when you're learning how to wedge as a beginner skier.

Learn to carve then learn to carve tighter.
post #161 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

 

How often is a racer's intent to skid as much as possible?

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Ski, Every time they go out and drill gates, slip or inspect, and even when they stivot during a race. So many of these activities get overlooked by casual observers.  If anything their skidding skills are just as developed as their carving skills.


Everytime the racers run gates their intention is to skid as much as possible??? Slipping/Inspecting has nothing to do with the aframe ghost was referring to so that answer doesn't apply.

 

Is the intent during a stivot to skid as much as possible?

 

post #162 of 167

OMG, move away from the kool aid stand fellas. It's affecting you ability to read accurately. Racers don't alway carve, period end of story. Can we get back to why an a frame can be a positive, or are you guys intent on hijacking this thread and turning into another pulpit to preach about carving all the time. That's so tedious.

post #163 of 167



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post



 

 

In this thread ( http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/99739/the-only-people-who-want-to-carve-any-more/240#post_1305776 ) there was a quote by a US ski team member who has represented his country both on the World Cup and in the Olympics.  His comments on stivots are highlighted in blue.  Note that he says that stivoting skills are not something that are actively trained by team members.  He asserts they are learnt as a beginner skiing in the wedge.  JASP seems to suggest that Nyman is a "casual observer" of the sport ...eek.gif  Nyman's more general comment on skidding skills is "learn to carve then learn to carve tighter." 
 


Wow, well calling you a beginner is abit harsh.  But ok, he is enttiled to his opinion.

 

 

Of course the skid in the "stivot" is not hard....the skill is then locking the skid back into a pure carve at will...so that is where racers say the skill is carving..and from that point of view is true.  But anyone who knows will tell you that if the fore/aft balance point in the skid is off, you have no chance turning it into a carve...so as instructors we  focus on that aspect of the skid....ironically to enable carving.
 

People always ask here, what is the differnce between a good skid and a bad skid.  A good skid can be turned into a carve at any time...a bad skid cant.  A stivot is a good skid. Easy to do, and no need to train it if you have proper fore/aft balance and pivoting...it is just a basic tactical application.

 

post #164 of 167

What was discussed was skidding of the inside ski caused by a-frame, not skidding vs carving in general.

 

The OP was about A-frame, and what Sharpedges brings up has an interesting relation to this.

What does "learn to carve then learn to carve tighter" Imply in terms of A-frames? Will you have the tightest possible carved turn by aligning the shins, or is it possible to carve a tighter turn by allowing some A-frame?

post #165 of 167
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

OMG, move away from the kool aid stand fellas. It's affecting you ability to read accurately. Racers don't alway carve, period end of story. Can we get back to why an a frame can be a positive, or are you guys intent on hijacking this thread and turning into another pulpit to preach about carving all the time. That's so tedious.


 

You made a factually incorrect statement about what skills racers strive to develop.  No Kool-aid stand.  Just fact check.  btw, as a physicist, I suggest that your "physics" comments this year also need fact check.

post #166 of 167

GET YOU FACTS STRAIGHT FELLAS! I said their skidding skills are just as developed as their carving skills. How anyone can glean from that statement that I'm suggesting they seek to skid as much as possible is silly and you both know it. I added the circumstances where a racer would seek to skid. Are they behind the scenes and out of the public eye? Yup. That is exactly why I made the comment about casual observers. They don't see that part of the race. I suspect even Nyman would have to admit he set and inspected more than a few courses and while doing so he used a lot of skidding and slipping. Was it the primary focus? Nope but even then it doesn't discount the use of those skills. I also question if the float phase of the stivot is actually what beginners use, last time I checked a beginner in a wedge isn't ripping down a World Cup injected race course at race speeds. Different situation, different level of skills. That's why I question the accuracy of that comment. It's an overstatement and not congruent with the advice Bode and the head coach of the US team offered in their instructional videos. I choose to go with the head coach of the team and a multiple globe winner's advice, thank you. Argue with them and their advice if you wish but it is their advice not mine you are arguing with.

Finally, as far as why the inside ski and the body turn I stand by what I wrote.  Outside of a step turn and the foot to foot weight transfer associated with that, the outside ski interacting with the snow is where the primary lateral motive forces are happening. Any additional lateral motive forces created from the inside ski's interaction with the snow is just that, it's in addition to what is going on with the outside ski.

 

So back to the a frames, When a skier wants to tip the outside ski onto a higher edge angle and they choose to do so using outside knee angulation, an A frame is a likely outcome.

post #167 of 167



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by sharpedges View Post


In this thread ( http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/99739/the-only-people-who-want-to-carve-any-more/240#post_1305776 ) there was a quote by a US ski team member who has represented his country both on the World Cup and in the Olympics.  His comments on stivots are highlighted in blue.  Note that he says that stivoting skills are not something that are actively trained by team members.  He asserts they are learnt as a beginner skiing in the wedge.  JASP seems to suggest that Nyman is a "casual observer" of the sport ...eek.gif  Nyman's more general comment on skidding skills is "learn to carve then learn to carve tighter." 

 

Quote: By Steven Nyman, member US Ski Team
To be frank. DONT STIVOT unless you have to. Being able to carve and go direct is way faster. We never practice the stivot and it isnt fast. Like Bode said is is a method to control speed. You carve to gain speed and you stivot to slow down. We never train it it is just something that happens. You learn it when you're learning how to wedge as a beginner skier.

Learn to carve then learn to carve tighter.


 


On the other hand, there are members of other national teams (including racers who hold World Championship titles and other podium finishes) who do practise pivoting drills on occasion.   Examples have shown up on CSCF training DVDs, so there's nothing secret here. Doesn't mean everyone should do this, just that there can be a place for these things, even at elite levels.

 


 

 

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