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How badly does carving on a 90mm ski hurt the knees? - Page 3

post #61 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givethepigey

IMO the S3 would ski VERY different than the Mantra or Bonafide.  I have not skied the latter 2, but skied the S3 (usually ski the Prophet 100 186 or Nordica Girish 185) and gave them back rather quickly.  Good luck in your quest - I would ski them all and pick the one you like best (not what you read about on the interwebz) and 100 is not that fat. I appreciate the advice (and same from others) and in a perfect world I should do this, but don't know... I had to miss my locals hill's full-blown 2012 demo day b/c of a work commitment.

 

I ski the 110's now more than anything when it isnt frozen solid.  I have a much different "helping" of hill compared to yourself.

 

Also, just a suggestion, you say you like to race, go look at the videos on Line's website and see if the 100 or 115 would not match what you want to do. I race on 66mm.  If this was dry humor I shall check out the videos.



I'm actually now thinking more along the lines of 88mm... I know these will still carve, but be obedient off-piste and in crud (to a degree).  These would be good to own, then if I go out west and get a 12+ inch day, I could demo a super-fat and see how I like it.  I mean, from what I hear you guys saying for some days out there the super-fats are really the best (and I never intended--at least right now--on buying one of those... and those could get spoiled well if I were to acquire a 98ish ski).

 

88mm just makes more sense all things considered (like it is actually worth my investment where a fatter at this point wouldn't be).  This will work when there are "deep" days locally and in NY (which they do have and all my skis amply sucked)... I'll need something and I'm not gonna be one of those people who takes an S7 to Boston Mills.

 

Dang... there's just a huge gap between 66mm and 98mm (partly why I'm leaning toward 88mm)... on that 66mm ski: jeez if it in not perfect firm groomed snow or smooth boilerplate the things don't have much use...

 

Sorry, not that anyone cares... I'm more thinking out loud.

post #62 of 81

 

  • I wasnt being funny - the Prophets carve turns just fine, sidecut and metal
  • 30mm is only 1 inch or half an inch on either side of your boot
post #63 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givethepigeye View Post

 

  • I wasnt being funny - the Prophets carve turns just fine, sidecut and metal
  • 30mm is only 1 inch or half an inch on either side of your boot


alright man I appreciate the advice, but I can't race on 100mm skis... I mean I could, but it wouldn't go down so smoothly.  I can notice 6mm of difference, so I think 30mm would be alot.

 

 

If you weren't aware I'm already set for the hard snow and racing skis.  Just looking for a soft-snow, all-mountain type deal.

post #64 of 81

I just picked up a set of 184 Mantra's at the end of this past season. I only skied on them for one day that started off firm and turned into nice soft spring snow. I really enjoyed the way they would just plow right through the spring crud. Great edge hold, and I had no problems carving on them. My regular ski is a 84mm Nordica HR Jet Fuel.

 

I skied the Gotma on the same day in a 193...not as enjoyable.

 

post #65 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

 

If you weren't aware I'm already set for the hard snow and racing skis.  Just looking for a soft-snow, all-mountain type deal.


Exactly - 100 is only about 10% wider and provide way more upside when you go out West and it does snow.  Just buy these and be done, thousands of people cant be wrong:

 

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/103186/for-sale-09-line-prophet-100-w-salomon-sth-14s-186

 

It will be fine, trust me. And if it doesnt work out - you are only $450 out vs. $1,000 with newer Volkl/Bliz boards

 

I do not think that you would like current Mantras if you are trying to lean/ ski more bumps (the newer version has a softer tail from what I have heard) - JMHO

 

post #66 of 81

 

So what is the mission / expected conditions for using this ski? Western daily driver / travel ski?

 

You are talking about a ski for when it snow 12"+...  Daily drivers are not optimized for a foot of snow althought hey will do better by a fair margin than your race skis... Don't loose sight of your priorities and style.

 

 

 

What are your priorities? Do you prefer to mix it up 50/50 groomed / off trail? Prefer off trail, 30/70? Love off trail and avoid groomers 10/90? Prefer groomers 70/30?   etc...

 

When you are off trail are you skiing mostly open terrain in long turns? Mostly tighter terrain (glades, trees, chutes, moguls etc...) in medium to short turns? a mix? Again how do you want to ski it?

 

 

When you are skiing on groomed trails do you demand a fun sporty feel from the ski or are you ok with a more just cruising / traveling along feel on the groomed runs?

 

Do you prioritize performance in firmer snow  (including hard pack groomers and heavy crud) , softer snow (including deeper pow), or neither / both (prefer a ski with no obvious weakensses, even if that also means no great stenghts)?

 

 

post #67 of 81

If BWPA concedes that a wide ski (110 +) can hurt his young healthy knees, just imagine how it will affect a person who is 50 + years old with 40+ years of skiing in the knees. The stress on knees is relative to the skier's age and physical condition. The level of strain is relative to snow conditions and terrain. Given that skills are constant. IMO

post #68 of 81
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

 

So what is the mission / expected conditions for using this ski? Western daily driver / travel ski? <----Yes

 

You are talking about a ski for when it snow 12"+...  Daily drivers are not optimized for a foot of snow althought hey will do better by a fair margin than your race skis... Don't loose sight of your priorities and style.

 

 

 

What are your priorities? Do you prefer to mix it up 50/50 groomed / off trail?  <--- for this ski it will probably be this Prefer off trail, 30/70? Love off trail and avoid groomers 10/90? Prefer groomers 70/30?   etc...

 

When you are off trail are you skiing mostly open terrain in long turns? Mostly tighter terrain (glades, trees, chutes, moguls etc...) in medium to short turns? a mix? Again how do you want to ski it?  If I had it my way I'd ski nothing but open bowls, but in reality trees and "trails" are both more available to me, and trees something that holds snow longer

 

 

When you are skiing on groomed trails do you demand a fun sporty feel from the ski or are you ok with a more just cruising / traveling along feel on the groomed runs?  If a wide ski allowed cruising carves, that'd be fine... I wouldn't be trying to aggressively pull G's, just smooth carves (and actually on edges... skidding isn't cool)

 

Do you prioritize performance in firmer snow  (including hard pack groomers and heavy crud) , softer snow (including deeper pow), or neither / both (prefer a ski with no obvious weakensses, even if that also means no great stenghts)? If it was truly "firm," I'd take out my cheater race skis... if it is "soft" or snowy, then that'd be what these skis would be for.

 

 

All in all more of a wider daily driver that could still basically do anything/everything (off-piste, of course) much better than anything in my current quiverYour sentence in blue is basically what I'm looking to get

 

 



 

post #69 of 81

 50/50 is what most ski companies designate for their 86 - 92 mm skis... that pretty much tells you all you need to know right there.

post #70 of 81

85-90mm width, medium flex, around 20m radius, 175-180cm length.

 

 

post #71 of 81

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post #72 of 81

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytierney View Post

 50/50 is what most ski companies designate for their 86 - 92 mm skis... that pretty much tells you all you need to know right there.

 

post #73 of 81

BMBW - Click on the video - expand your current view of ski width.  Nothing revolutionary here to most, just breaking down "imagined" walls/structure w/ respect to skiing

 

http://lineskis.com/skis/prophet-100

 

PS. not a Line shill - just shows versatility of any 100mm ski w/ some sidecut

post #74 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by givethepigeye View Post

BMBW - Click on the video - expand your current view of ski width.  Nothing revolutionary here to most, just breaking down "imagined" walls/structure w/ respect to skiing

 

http://lineskis.com/skis/prophet-100

 

PS. not a Line shill - just shows versatility of any 100mm ski w/ some sidecut

 

Here's the thing about the Line videos -- you don't really know what skis they are on. If you look at videos for multiple Line skis you will see some of the same footage used in videos that are supposed to be featuring different skis. Unless you can actually identify the ski model in the video, you don't actually know what they are on. For example, after watching the P100 video, watch the P115 video -- you'll see Andrew in the red-white striped jacket in a few seconds of the same footage in both videos. Lame.

 

I own two pairs of Line skis and like the brand, but am disappointed in their video editing -- seems a bit dishonest.
 

 

post #75 of 81

Didnt look that close - but the 115's are pretty easy to pick out. That said the 100 will turn for sure w/o too much effort. Is it a "perfect" ski - no, does it hurt my knees, well not that much and only if I ski groomers all day fast and turn a lot (which is sometimes fun).  I would gladly take a Advil and have the extra 10mm for off-piste.

post #76 of 81
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by givethepigeye View Post

BMBW - Click on the video - expand your current view of ski width.  Nothing revolutionary here to most, just breaking down "imagined" walls/structure w/ respect to skiing

 

http://lineskis.com/skis/prophet-100

 

PS. not a Line shill - just shows versatility of any 100mm ski w/ some sidecut

 

Pigeye, I watched the videos...  looks like a good ski (but they are not exactly focusing on the hard-snow potential).  I heard Line was even worse than K2, but I don't know.  I might consider the Prophet 90.
 

 

post #77 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

If BWPA concedes that a wide ski (110 +) can hurt his young healthy knees, just imagine how it will affect a person who is 50 + years old with 40+ years of skiing in the knees. The stress on knees is relative to the skier's age and physical condition. The level of strain is relative to snow conditions and terrain. Given that skills are constant. IMO



I think 100 is safe on REALLY hard snow but yeah 110 on some skis can cause some weird side to side loading on my knees on hard snow. I love big skis but dont go over 100 unless I am skiing mostly not hard pack. I also ski at high edge angles, and I am naturally A-frame I am think these thing hurt my knees as well. by knees I mean specifically the IT band. i am guessing people who pivot smear most things wont have issues on huge skis.

 

this is my reason for recommending 100mm ish skis. I feel it keeps it sane on hardpack, while skill killing it in alot of off trail scenarios especially with rocker.

post #78 of 81
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

I'm thinking about adding a 90mm ski to my quiver next year (to allow me to ski more of mountains I'd go to on vacation, and even the occasional local deep day).

 

However, I may think twice if carving on a 90mm ski is really as bad on the knees as people say it is.

 

Just wondering how painful/dangerous it is.



^ If vacation = West you and all of us have spent too much time on this.

post #79 of 81



FWIW: I can't go 80mm + w/o it hurting my knees.......now I have 98s,104s,125s...but I have to really alter my style. 



 

post #80 of 81

bored, I ski a 97mm for my daily driver, and I'm old, with age the main factor. On soft pack,  and fresh groomers, even western firm off piste I wouldn't give it a thought. On the other hand, with a 115mm, I'm changing out my skis around noon pretty often. I think that's pretty standard, except for people under 35 or so with much more shock absorption and elasticity.

post #81 of 81

My only skis are 115 and 103 waist. This is my knee.

 

186998_596762904_5157011_n.jpg

 

It's fine, I promise. If you feel pain, go faster.

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