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post #1 of 33
4/24/11 at 7:39am
Thread Starter 

I've been tracking fairways hit, GIR, # putts, # bunkers and penalty strokes for years now and have been using this data to guide where to focus efforts on and measure results. From another thread here, Mike gave me the idea to track data on where I miss my approach shots. Here's the first pass at results.

 

(For reference, the course I as playing was rated 74.4/144. I was playing from the tips at 7034. I shot 91 net 90 for a round handicap of 12. Four fairways hit, 5 GIR, 3 bunker shots, 1 penalty stroke, 34 putts [1 chip in, 3 one putts and 3 three putts])

 

On the par 3's I had 2 shots right of the green, 1 long and 1 GIR. On the 14 other holes I had 4 GIR. Of the 10 misses, 7 were short, 3 long; 5 right, 5 left. 

 

I had trouble trying to define the data I wanted to keep to explain the misses. Three of the shorts were because I had screwed up and had 200 yards to get to the green, one was because I had to use less club to get out of a bunker and another was because I had too much club and was trying to shorten my swing. On the par 3's, my misses were away from trouble that were done on purpose (i.e. if I was going to miss, that was the side I intended to miss on). 

 

I tried to track what distance I had for my approach shot, what club I used and factors like uphill/downhill, into the wind/cross wind. I started tracking my misses either per the pin or where I intended the shot to go. I'm thinking about counting anything within the width of the green as "accurate" relative to short/long or right/left, but I'm wondering if I should add missed right/left distance to the length to see if the length was off. I'm thinking I need to track intended distance vs actual distance to account for shorter swings/gripping down vs clubbing up/down to factor in wind or elevation vs not choosing the right club before making adjustments (i.e. relying on the perfect swing). I'm also thinking I need a second scorecard to somehow capture all of this.

 

Another stat I've been thinking about keeping is total length of putts. 

 

So here's the reasons for starting this thread:

1) So Mike can help my game

2) To help me figure out if I can devise a meaningful way to keep stats for missed approaches.

3) So you can share what stats you keep and why you keep them

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post #2 of 33
4/24/11 at 7:56am

Rusty, I for a while tried the total distance putted stat. What I found more important was distance I left myself from the hole and where I left them.  EI.  left,right,short or long.  I worked on that and found myself 3 putting a little less. Yes,I was not making the twenty footers,but I was also not blowing by the hole and coming back for 7,8 footers all the time either.The other thing is, If you are missing in good spots and are still giving yourself good chances for up and downs you are doing better than most.

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post #3 of 33
4/24/11 at 10:42am

This won't fall into a traditional stat category, but as someone who used to be an avid golf stat keeper, I found what helped me the most to improve my game over the years was the "eff up" stat.  As in, I would have scored better on this hole if I didn't eff up this shot.  So maybe I make a bogey and it's because I yanked my 8 iron on the approach, hit my drive in the trees, 3-putted, or had a bad chip that left me too long of a par putt, etc.  I make small notations on my score card... and while a single round won't accumulate nearly enough data, several rounds worth will, and I found it really helped me narrow in on my flaws without getting too technical about it.  I group eff ups into several categories: driving, fairway woods, long irons, mid irons, short irons, chipping, short putts (under 10 feet), and long putts.

 

This may all sound very basic but you'd be surprised what your perceptions of your golf game are vs. reality when examined from this perspective.  I came to learn that I really needed to spend more time on my driver and my mid-irons... whereas I would have guessed I needed to spend more time on my long-irons, short putts and chipping.  For example, maybe I hit an 8-iron on the green from 150 out, but it was barely on the green and on the wrong side, leaving me with an awkward long putt.  Sure, it's technically a GIR, but if I three-putt the hole I may conclude that my eff up had more to do in that case with my 8 iron than my putting.

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post #4 of 33
4/25/11 at 10:16am
Thread Starter 

Dave, I figure distance divided by number of putts will give me an approximation of how far away I'm leaving myself. I don't blow them by the hole too often. Some days I'm dropping bombs in the hole and others I make good putts but can't buy any long ones. I want to see if there's a trend there.

 

Jay, that was one of the first stats I started tracking and I still do today. But I'm only tracking F's off the tee and I'm also tracking "A"s off the tee (where I hit a shot as great as "f"s are bad). I also track penalty strokes added. It's probably time to start tracking other screw ups. I have a handful of recurring problems that come back when I don't pay attention (e.g. looking up before contact) or when other swing thoughts bump the fixes for these problems off the stack. I'm thinking about changing the stat to category of screw up vs club used.

 

 

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post #5 of 33
4/26/11 at 7:39pm
Thread Starter 

Here are my stats for another round:

 

On the par 3s, 1 GIR, 1 long and 2 short, no misses right or left

 

On the 14 others:

distance:I had 3 approach shots hit the green, 0 long and 4 short and 7 either right or left

direction:3 greens, 5 left, 3 right, 6 were on line to the green

(only one shot was off for both direction and distance - short right)

 

Shot 93, net 92. 7 fairways, 3 GIR, 6 bunker shots (3 on one hole), 1 penalty stroke; 33 putts. Two of bunker shots were abnormal problems. Otherwise, fairway hits went up from the first round while GIR went down - go figure.

 

It was maddening hitting four lefts and no rights on the front nine and knowing my stats were gong to be "messed up", but I kept telling myself to just hit the green when I kept thinking "miss right on purpose". I had two approach shots end on the fringe to count as a miss, but made par. It seems silly to count those as misses. I tried just keeping track of which club I hit for the approach shot, but gave up after a few holes. I definitely need to start using a different score card to track these stats.

 

So far it looks like I'm short more often than I thought I was, but it's not just a matter of taking more club. Some of the shorts are from taking more club and swinging easier. Some are not having the ability to hit the distance required. Some are because it's better to miss short than long. But this is beginning to look like something I need to work on. 

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post #6 of 33
4/28/11 at 6:12am
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

I've been tracking fairways hit, GIR, # putts, # bunkers and penalty strokes for years now and have been using this data to guide where to focus efforts on and measure results. From another thread here, Mike gave me the idea to track data on where I miss my approach shots. Here's the first pass at results.

 

(For reference, the course I as playing was rated 74.4/144. I was playing from the tips at 7034. I shot 91 net 90 for a round handicap of 12. Four fairways hit, 5 GIR, 3 bunker shots, 1 penalty stroke, 34 putts [1 chip in, 3 one putts and 3 three putts])

 

On the par 3's I had 2 shots right of the green, 1 long and 1 GIR. On the 14 other holes I had 4 GIR. Of the 10 misses, 7 were short, 3 long; 5 right, 5 left. 

 

I had trouble trying to define the data I wanted to keep to explain the misses. Three of the shorts were because I had screwed up and had 200 yards to get to the green, one was because I had to use less club to get out of a bunker and another was because I had too much club and was trying to shorten my swing. On the par 3's, my misses were away from trouble that were done on purpose (i.e. if I was going to miss, that was the side I intended to miss on). 

 

 

The question I would have about the rights and lefts are about the initial ball flight. For example, are the lefts straight pulls or hooks (or draws) that start out either on the target line or to the right then curve left of target? That info will give a clue as to what is happening.

 

Missing par 3's away from trouble is not a bad idea-just puts some stress on your short game,

 

For distance control practice hitting a club (e.g. a 7 iron) varying distances until you become comfortable. Usually I'll try to do that by using the same swing but incrementally choking down about 1/2" at a time. Then I don't have to worry about the swing velocity even if I eventually vary the swing length a bit. Somedays I'll start out hitting 7 irons 100 yards or less then slowly ramp up the distance until I am at my normal distance and then reverse the process. The motor skill development goal is variability-giving the brain the comfort it has been here before so we can just react instead of trying to think our way through a 1.5 second golf swing.

 

On the 7 of 10 approaches that were short do you feel they were mis hits or mis clubs?

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post #7 of 33
4/28/11 at 9:49am

If you're currently shooting in the high 80's or low 90's, I humbly suggest that your swing may not be consistent enough yet to truly benefit from this degree of statistical record keeping.  On the other hand, stat keeping tends to be a sign of passion and a drive to improve so if you enjoy that aspect of the game by all means don't let me discourage it.  As someone who's done a little instruction here and there, just make sure you don't get too bogged down by the stats and and lose focus on the technical aspects of your grip / setup / swing plane / tempo / release, etc.  I've seen simple changes at address completely transform a golfer's game to the point that their previous mishit trends became irrelevant (i.e. transitioning from a slicer to hitting a draw but frequently pulling the ball).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Here are my stats for another round:

 

On the par 3s, 1 GIR, 1 long and 2 short, no misses right or left

 

On the 14 others:

distance:I had 3 approach shots hit the green, 0 long and 4 short and 7 either right or left

direction:3 greens, 5 left, 3 right, 6 were on line to the green

(only one shot was off for both direction and distance - short right)

 

Shot 93, net 92. 7 fairways, 3 GIR, 6 bunker shots (3 on one hole), 1 penalty stroke; 33 putts. Two of bunker shots were abnormal problems. Otherwise, fairway hits went up from the first round while GIR went down - go figure.

 

It was maddening hitting four lefts and no rights on the front nine and knowing my stats were gong to be "messed up", but I kept telling myself to just hit the green when I kept thinking "miss right on purpose". I had two approach shots end on the fringe to count as a miss, but made par. It seems silly to count those as misses. I tried just keeping track of which club I hit for the approach shot, but gave up after a few holes. I definitely need to start using a different score card to track these stats.

 

So far it looks like I'm short more often than I thought I was, but it's not just a matter of taking more club. Some of the shorts are from taking more club and swinging easier. Some are not having the ability to hit the distance required. Some are because it's better to miss short than long. But this is beginning to look like something I need to work on. 



 

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post #8 of 33
4/28/11 at 2:49pm

Here is my stat, I gave myself every chance to score well Tuesday. No lost balls,either on the greenin regulation or close enough for an up and down. Once again, chipping and putting killed me,did not capitalize.I know my ballstriking is pretty decent but the two most important components need mucho work! Admitting you have a problem is the first step to recovery.

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post #9 of 33
4/30/11 at 11:43am
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikewil View Post



 

The question I would have about the rights and lefts are about the initial ball flight. For example, are the lefts straight pulls or hooks (or draws) that start out either on the target line or to the right then curve left of target? That info will give a clue as to what is happening.

 

Missing par 3's away from trouble is not a bad idea-just puts some stress on your short game,

 

For distance control practice hitting a club (e.g. a 7 iron) varying distances until you become comfortable. Usually I'll try to do that by using the same swing but incrementally choking down about 1/2" at a time. Then I don't have to worry about the swing velocity even if I eventually vary the swing length a bit. Somedays I'll start out hitting 7 irons 100 yards or less then slowly ramp up the distance until I am at my normal distance and then reverse the process. The motor skill development goal is variability-giving the brain the comfort it has been here before so we can just react instead of trying to think our way through a 1.5 second golf swing.

 

On the 7 of 10 approaches that were short do you feel they were mis hits or mis clubs?



 

The left misses are most often a result of me flipping my hands - ball starts on target, then hooks away. Right misses are mostly starting off line and straight. One of my earliest drills was hitting a 7 iron 100 yards with a full swing. I have kinda tried walking the distance from 100 to 160, but I've mainly used the 100 yard drill to just groove a good swing. My shorts are for a grab bag of reasons: some mis hits, some misjudgment of wind/temp/elevation/change, some under swinging while over clubbing. some doing the full swing and not getting the full yardage.

 

Maybe I'm just better off tracking the reason for the miss instead of the stats?

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post #10 of 33
4/30/11 at 12:00pm
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytierney View Post

If you're currently shooting in the high 80's or low 90's, I humbly suggest that your swing may not be consistent enough yet to truly benefit from this degree of statistical record keeping.  On the other hand, stat keeping tends to be a sign of passion and a drive to improve so if you enjoy that aspect of the game by all means don't let me discourage it.  As someone who's done a little instruction here and there, just make sure you don't get too bogged down by the stats and and lose focus on the technical aspects of your grip / setup / swing plane / tempo / release, etc.  I've seen simple changes at address completely transform a golfer's game to the point that their previous mishit trends became irrelevant (i.e. transitioning from a slicer to hitting a draw but frequently pulling the ball).
 



 

Jay,

 

Generally, when I play easier courses, I can easily shoot low 80s. My consistency is almost there. I had it last year when I got the handicap under 10. I get stretches where I can do a routine, pull the trigger and get a consistent swing and results. I also get stretches where "fixed" flaws creep back in and I spend entire rounds tinkering with swing thoughts and over compensating. I don't mind shooting 80s, 90s if the handicap is staying in the 10-12 range. I am trying to get it into the 8-10 range.

 

My main reason for golf is to experiment with learning in order to help my ski instruction. The main focus on my swing right now is swing plane. Keeping the detailed stats has been hard because I still need to improve the simpler stats. For now, it's just an experiment.
 

 

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post #11 of 33
4/30/11 at 3:57pm

Sweet spot %, % towards the toe, % towards the heel, and % thin I find helps for me although it's a quirkier stat.  People define sweet spot pretty differently, but for the same golfer once you know both how to check the clubface without tape and what the feel is, you can get a good baseline relative to your own definitions. 

 

% good divots is sort of a flagpost one, though it doesn't necessarily tell you too much about what to correct unless you either take a few more divot notes, or know what you're working on (I've been through a couple thin phases and one very steep, ugly gouge, phase, so in context of swing changes the divot did give good info). 

 

Ballflight stats are another good process-oriented set of stats. 

 

Finally, another quirky short-game stat is what I call the "sixer:"  if you play the same course a lot, force yourself to play 5 or so rounds where you never hit anything shorter than a 6 iron, until you're on the green, but in alternating sequence play 5 "normal" rounds.  Many players' sixer delta is actually positive, which is a good sign they should spend a few months only working on both their swing and their short game, and/or that they can carry a lighter bag.  Pelz has some version of this, and I got it from a pro back east, so it seems golf instructors have had this out there for a while.  (Another fun sixer stat is what happens when you take members of some teetotalling denominations fishin'; also an old joke with some truth.)

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post #12 of 33
5/1/11 at 7:16am
Thread Starter 

Thanks CT - that was the kind of info I was hoping for.

 

Tee hee - the only irons I have longer than a 7 are my 6 and 5. Taking out the 7 and in would be half of my clubs! There are some days when I play almost this way on every hole except for the par 5s any way. But playing a long course when it's cold/windy/soggy can do that to you. I don't know about hitting a 6 iron out of a greenside bunker though, that would be (ahem) fun.

 

I use divots as an alignment/ball starting flight check. Did I line up right/did the ball start out on the line I intended? It also helps to tell me how bad I was when I don't quite get ball first contact.

 

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post #13 of 33
5/5/11 at 4:50pm

^^^ Re: greenside bunkers, yeah, I figure it's about a 2-stroke penalty for decent and better players.  For average players, probably the same those times they get a good shot with their sand wedge...but, while I don't have stats to support this, I'd take the bet that the 90 and above crowd touches the sand, x, y and z's, so much in this situation that even for greenside bunkers using a 6 iron may not be a penalty on average. 

 

Yeah, re divots if you're conscious of swing path etc. there can be a lot more info there.  For me, another sort of derivative stat is the difference between my driving range divots and my fairway divots.  I am not what you'd call a "nervous" rider or skier, and for that matter am relaxed for sports similar to golf like shooting clays with a shotgun, but have big issues with tensing up in golf, particularly when making swing changes.  As sort of a "higher moment" stat, I noticed that my driving range versus playing divots evened out much more when I chewed gum, so now I basically force myself to chew some Wrigley's while either at the range or playing.  (Geeky excuse, but my theory is that because golf involves a lot of motion but no real visual cues -- the ball ain't movin too much until you hit it -- it's possible to get more weird things going on in terms of neural pathways than for sports like baseball, shooting, etc. where your eyes are a bit more naturally involved.)  Technical note:  it has to be Wrigely's, proven fact. :)

 

Just kinda hard to be tense when you're chewin' doublemint -- maybe it's memories of the doublemint twins in the old ads, who knows?  If you have someone gripped in skiing or riding, getting them smiling helps break the cycle, but maybe handing a stick of doublemint over could help, too.

 

For the 90 and above crowd, actually, their 3 wood, 6 iron, putter bag versus full bag delta would be an interesting stat -- again, no data, but I'd probably take the quiver of 3 bet for that one. 

 

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post #14 of 33
5/5/11 at 5:13pm

A quick tip: *never* look at your divots on the driving range.  At 99% of courses, the range turf is a completely different construction and divot analysis is beyond meaningless.  Excessive use of sand beneath the turf to encourage quick re-growth.  For the same reason, never get overly frustrated if you chunk one at the range, as even low handicappers will do this from time to time.

 

Gum I completely endorse - it can be a great tool for tempo and pacing just like listening to music with a beat.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CTKook View Post

^^^ Re: greenside bunkers, yeah, I figure it's about a 2-stroke penalty for decent and better players.  For average players, probably the same those times they get a good shot with their sand wedge...but, while I don't have stats to support this, I'd take the bet that the 90 and above crowd touches the sand, x, y and z's, so much in this situation that even for greenside bunkers using a 6 iron may not be a penalty on average. 

 

Yeah, re divots if you're conscious of swing path etc. there can be a lot more info there.  For me, another sort of derivative stat is the difference between my driving range divots and my fairway divots.  I am not what you'd call a "nervous" rider or skier, and for that matter am relaxed for sports similar to golf like shooting clays with a shotgun, but have big issues with tensing up in golf, particularly when making swing changes.  As sort of a "higher moment" stat, I noticed that my driving range versus playing divots evened out much more when I chewed gum, so now I basically force myself to chew some Wrigley's while either at the range or playing.  (Geeky excuse, but my theory is that because golf involves a lot of motion but no real visual cues -- the ball ain't movin too much until you hit it -- it's possible to get more weird things going on in terms of neural pathways than for sports like baseball, shooting, etc. where your eyes are a bit more naturally involved.)  Technical note:  it has to be Wrigely's, proven fact. :)

 

Just kinda hard to be tense when you're chewin' doublemint -- maybe it's memories of the doublemint twins in the old ads, who knows?  If you have someone gripped in skiing or riding, getting them smiling helps break the cycle, but maybe handing a stick of doublemint over could help, too.

 

For the 90 and above crowd, actually, their 3 wood, 6 iron, putter bag versus full bag delta would be an interesting stat -- again, no data, but I'd probably take the quiver of 3 bet for that one. 

 



 

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post #15 of 33
5/5/11 at 5:23pm

Great point about the turf at the range being different,very interesting. Also about the gum. I am playing in my annual Ski Patrol scramble tomorrow,I'll have to try some Wrigley's and give it a shot.I'll report back with results.    Dave

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by jaytierney View Post

A quick tip: *never* look at your divots on the driving range.  At 99% of courses, the range turf is a completely different construction and divot analysis is beyond meaningless.  Excessive use of sand beneath the turf to encourage quick re-growth.  For the same reason, never get overly frustrated if you chunk one at the range, as even low handicappers will do this from time to time.

 

Gum I completely endorse - it can be a great tool for tempo and pacing just like listening to music with a beat.
 



 



 

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post #16 of 33
5/5/11 at 7:32pm
Thread Starter 

I played a 71.9/127 (i.e. normal difficulty) course today. Shot 83, net 82 (round handicap of 9). 4 short, 3 long, 5 left, 2 right, 4 GIR. Par 3's were 2 left, 1 short, 1 GIR

 

I felt like I left a shots on the course/ should have been 4 strokes less. Excess lefts were caused by flipping the hands/draw ball flight. I felt good about my misses otherwise. What's surprising to me is that I'm not having any misses for both direction and distance.

 

What was weird stat wise today was that I had 28 putts today. I'm normally around 32. Since I holed out from the off the green on the last two holes, that sort of accounts for it. What was weird was I was not making any putts over 5 feet. I missed two good birdie opportunities in the 5-8 foot range by over reading the break. No 3 putts (I usually have 1 or 2). So the stats say a good putting day, but it felt worse than average.

 

I'm going to look at yardage vs misses next. I feel that this should be unrelated, but I think there will be some surprises.

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post #17 of 33
5/6/11 at 8:28am

Total putts are kind of like wins for a pitcher in baseball.  They tell you something - sometimes - but are so manipulated by other factors it's almost meaningless.  I've had phenomenal putting days where I had 32 putts and bad days where I've had 28.  It all depends on how many greens you're hitting and how well (or poor) you're chipping.  Not to mention that technically a putt from the fringe doesn't count as a putt, even if you're right near the flag and it's a good birdie opportunity.

 

They just started keeping a new putting statistic on the PGA tour - I think they call it putting efficiency - that takes into account the length of each putt (put into buckets of under 5 feet, 5 - 10, 10 - 15, 15 - 20, and 20+) and then contrast each putt in each bucket against the rest of the field, and it's shown to be a much better indicator of how someone was putting that day.  Of course, that doesn't do any of us any good, but it's cool that they're thinking outside-the-box to increase statistical accuracy.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

What was weird stat wise today was that I had 28 putts today. I'm normally around 32.



 

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post #18 of 33
5/6/11 at 10:29am
Thread Starter 

Just saw the new stat referenced in use on TV for the first time this week - talking about how Michelson was losing shots to the field on putting. It's called Strokes Gained - Putting.

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post #19 of 33
5/6/11 at 10:42am

That's it - forgot what it was called.  They felt pretty good about it when they did a big analysis and Luke Donald came out as the best putter on tour... which is what every other player on tour will tell you.  Good stuff.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Just saw the new stat referenced in use on TV for the first time this week - talking about how Michelson was losing shots to the field on putting. It's called Strokes Gained - Putting.



 

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post #20 of 33
5/6/11 at 12:34pm
Thread Starter 

As I understand it, they are also going to roll out strokes gained stats for other aspects of the game (e.g. driving, chipping). 

 

What will be interesting is that if these new stats lead to new "conventional wisdom" (e.g. hit more fairways -> lower scores, lay up on par 5s to take a full shot into the green vs aim for a greenside bunker and then chip on).. Will amateurs be able to get strategy/tactics from these stats that they can use to improve their game?

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post #21 of 33
5/6/11 at 3:01pm

We need balls with micro GPS and an application that will then track all this for you. 

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post #22 of 33
5/6/11 at 3:12pm

My buddy and I talked about this years ago when RFID chips got much smaller and less expensive... I think he may have even taken out a patent on it.  But in reality the golf industry does not want you to find your ball so often... hurts sales.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

We need balls with micro GPS and an application that will then track all this for you. 



 

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post #23 of 33
5/11/11 at 10:08am
Thread Starter 

Golf Digest June issue has 2 articles on stats. Trying to find an online link, I found this about error stats from last year. I especially like the count by handicap matrix. This is going to be my next stat experiment this summer. The four error categories are: penalty drive, pitching gaff, bunker gaffe and 3 putt. I already know that I'm way over the average for my handicap. My only problem is I need different fixes than what the article recommends (if only life was so simple as the article says). The good news is that I'm working on most of the things this says I should be working on. The bad news is I need more work.

 

The first current article is on page 50 by Peter Sanders (Make me better column). In it he writes about a long game efficiency index (# shots > 50 yds/ GIR). 2.0 is perfect, scratch average is 3.1, 10 handicap is 5.9, 20 =12.2. Interesting concept. Golf digest has an online service that incorporates this concept into long game and short game handicaps available through a free service you need to register for. I tried this a couple years ago and was not impressed. This looks better.

 

The second article is about the difference between tour players and scratch golfers. There's a whole slew of stats on page 108. These are not going to help me much, but the putting stats are an interesting add on to the info that Dave Pelz has already published.

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post #24 of 33
7/12/11 at 4:36pm
Thread Starter 

update - old habits die hard - but finally get results

 

I found it difficult to switch over to new stat tracking without disrupting my game and reverted back to my old method: fairways hit, GIR, bunkers, penalties, putts, great vs bad tee shots.

The last 3 weeks have been amazing. Like magic, it seems like 5-6 strokes are gone from my scores and my handicap has dropped 3 strokes in 3 weeks (now at 7) with room to keep dropping. The stats show an across the board improvement, except for putting. What's frustrating is that this is not a result so much of "working on anything" as just not screwing up as much. It started around US Open week when I played 8 times in 10 days. I had a couple of great rounds in the "new mode" and a few "tired" rounds in the "old mode". Since then every round has been in the new mode. My drives have been straighter, my irons have been straighter and my distance control has been zeroed in. I still feel like most rounds are a "struggle", but it seems like I'm struggling for one stroke less per hole than I was before and my misses are better.

 

I did try the golf digest online stats for long and short game handicap. I've only put a few rounds in, but according to it my game bounces around between long needs work and short needs work. I know my short game needs work. I've been working on it and it is getting better, but it is not the reason for the big improvement this summer. The good news is that I think I can squeeze another 2-3 strokes off the handicap with doable short game improvements.

 

The bottom line here is that stats are doing even less for me now than when I wondered if they would help me break through the funk. Now that I've broken through the funk, I still feel funky but I'm a lot better. Like skiing though, the list of things to work on never ends.

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post #25 of 33
7/13/11 at 11:44am

I've dropped the stat keeping completely this golf season so far because it's become too obvious that my swing is in fantastic shape and I'm just not putting well.  At all.  Shot a 75 the other day with 35 putts!  Had 8 birdie putts inside of 10 - 12 feet and only made 1 of them.  Ugh... golf.

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post #26 of 33
7/19/11 at 12:48pm
Thread Starter 

Well Jay, PGA tour pros average 15-25% of 12 footers during tournaments, and below 30% of 10 footers. So you only needed one more to drop to be within the tour average. But if you want to look at the half empty glass, then Pelz's research shows that 15-25 handicappers fall below 10% at 9 feet. Ohfer 8 would put you right into that range, except you'd have to miss a couple more after that.

 

I know the feeling. 2 weekends ago I had 6 birdie putts from 9 feet and only made one. That didn't phase me because my misses were only a little off and I made easy pars. But every close approach being exactly 9 feet away was getting a little eerie. 

 

This does get me thinking about putting stats again. Daveski started this in post 2. At the simplest level, putts are about reading the green to determine line and speed and making a stroke to execute line and speed. If your consistently missing putts below the hole, odds are you are misreading versus not executing the stroke. If you consistently miss putts right or left from where you're aiming, your problem is probably mechanical. Ideally we want putting stats to help us identify what area to work on. Do they? 

 

Distance the first putt is left from the hole doesn't unless you measure the distance you want to putt (e.g. step off the distance). Otherwise, if you're short you don't don't if you guessed the distance wrong or made to weak a stroke. Similarly, the number of 3 putts does not tell you why you are 3 putting. Total distance of made putts gives a skill ranking, but this does not break it down between green reading and stroke execution. Somehow we need to have stats that tell us if the putt went where we aimed it for the distance intended or if our read of distance and direction was in error.

 

That does not seem so easy to me. So I want to trying working backwards. We know there are some common putting problems. Are there stats to identify those?

Wrist breakdown - difference between "read" distance and actual distance putted

Peeking toward the hole - misses to the left of the hole (RH putters)

Putter not fit - ???

Decelerating contact - follow through distance < backswing distance;  difference between "read" distance and actual distance putted

Left eye not over the ball - ???

Not set up square - inconsistent distance for the same swing?

 

It seems to me that some of these could be covered with practice stats and some as playing stats. Hmm - needs more work ....

 

 

 

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post #27 of 33
7/19/11 at 1:21pm

Well, it's a little worse when I clarify by adding that 5 of those 8 putts were from inside 6 feet.  A couple of edge burners and a lip-out.  Should have had at least 3 or 4 birdies instead of 1.

 

Of course, I'm used to this - during allergy season my short game always goes to hell, then by mid July when I'm no longer battling the pollen, it bounces right back.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRusty View Post

Well Jay, PGA tour pros average 15-25% of 12 footers during tournaments, and below 30% of 10 footers. So you only needed one more to drop to be within the tour average. But if you want to look at the half empty glass, then Pelz's research shows that 15-25 handicappers fall below 10% at 9 feet. Ohfer 8 would put you right into that range, except you'd have to miss a couple more after that.

 



 

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post #28 of 33
7/19/11 at 2:57pm

Just curious. Has anyone ever improved their game by keeping stats? I mean, I can feel if I'm missing putts or greens and some practice is in order but actually putting pencil to paper during a round to quantify it through record keeping would suck the fun out of the game for me. Only stats I ever kept were number of dubbed shots per round at the very beginning of my attempt to be a better golfer. When that number got down to two I started keeping score. Lately I'm playing to a 10. My father (1936 Tri-City Caddy Champion) taught me the game with these 3 tips.

1- Swing easy and let the club do the work.

2- Keep your head still.

3- Only tell your wife your going to play golf every other time.

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post #29 of 33
7/20/11 at 7:02am
Thread Starter 

Well, most golfers keep at least one simple stat: their score. Score works to improve one's game only as a feedback mechanism. I play a lot as a single. The vast majority of golfers I play with do not keep stats beyond their score. Keeping stats has helped my game, because it has helped guide what areas of my game that I work on. I've played golf for 12 seasons now. I guess I started keeping stats in season two. Over the years, I've improved from consistently worse than pathetic (handicap 25+) to decent (handicap 7). I had 5 of my 12 seasons where my progress was limited by injury (e.g. 3 years dealing with collarbone issues). So the answer to the question "has anyone ever" is "yes - me". But you raise a great point. Not many people keep stats and stats don't do a lot to help anyone improve their game.

 

But let's look at Jay's problem as an example. Shooting a 75 with 35 putts is unusual. The "problem" could be putting, or approach shots, or driving, or playing from the wrong tees, or misfit clubs, or something else entirely. Jay thinks his problem is putting and I believe him. But missing 7 out of 8 birdie putts over 10 feet is not necessarily a problem. So we could use this as an example of "stats don't work" or we could search for stats that can help find the problem (e.g. average drive of 210 yards and playing from 7000 yard tees).

 

Another example is my problem. Two summers ago I broke through 10 handicap for the first time, but only briefly. Last summer I wanted to get there and stay. I knew my short game was a problem because my up and down stats were horrible (derived from GIR missed and 1 putt pars). I took a lesson that was focused on my short game. Over the summer things got much worse. They were so bad that my golf buddy was making comments about my new technique. I told him I knew what I was doing and I was going to play through it. This summer the technique change is grooved in, the chip shots are much better, my stats are much better and my handicap is 3 strokes lower (6 strokes better than the high end). I have not taken any lessons this year. I've just been looking at stats, asking why, finding problems and fixing them.

 

We have the same kind of thing going on in ski instruction. We can see a skier skidding, but skidding isn't necessarily bad. When it is bad, we start working backwards through the turn to find the reason why. So we look at "stats" like skidding, edge angle, upper/lower body separation, etc. Lesser skilled instructors may work on fixing the wrong "stat", yet gain some improvement in reducing the skidding. Higher skilled instructors can find the right "root cause" (stat) and solve the problem quickly. I suspect we have the same phenomena going on in golf. Stats don't give you a lot of information until you look at enough details and interpreting the details accurately requires some knowledge and skill. So it's real easy for keeping stats to be a waste of time. Also, it's real easy to argue that skilled ski instructors don't need to look at stats. We can look at the movements and tell you what the results are going to be. Golf is going to work mostly the same way, but has more of the element of decision making in addition to movement.

 

At a higher level, we've got a great example of how stats can work. Dave Pelz's instructional methods are mostly derived from stats. He's got a huge instruction business that has been successful for a number of years. If you read his books, a lot of his significant insights into the game came from capturing stats, finding unexpected results and then asking why. Without the stats he would never have asked the why question. Answering the why question is what led to the insight and that took great skill.

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post #30 of 33
7/20/11 at 9:49am

I'll also add that keeping track of fairways hit and greens in regulation was a huge part of my progress going from trying to break 90 to breaking 80 consistently.  Once I was consistently shooting in the low to high 70's, not so much.  The only way to get better at that point is to do everything a little bit better, tee to green.

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