EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Look PX12 bindings overly stiff?
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Look PX12 bindings overly stiff? - Page 2

post #31 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

 


 And again it didn't release on a single one of my falls. ugghh... tomorrow's my last day skiing it before putting it in for testing. 

 


 

Well, if you want it to release on every fall, just have the DIN turned way down. I really don't know why some posters in this thread are concerned how the Look bindings feel (mushy?) when clicking in the heel. That has nothing to due with their intended function, which is to retain the boot on the ski (which they do exceptionally well) and release the boot in a hard fall (which they do exceptionally well if you have them adjusted properly) All my speed skis have Look bindings on them, and I trust them with my life. Other than Tyrolia bindings, I can't say that about other bindings brands when I'm doing a 70 mph SuperG or a 90 mph Downhill...
 

 

post #32 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by CaptainKirk View Post



Well, if you want it to release on every fall, just have the DIN turned way down. I really don't know why some posters in this thread are concerned how the Look bindings feel (mushy?) when clicking in the heel. That has nothing to due with their intended function, which is to retain the boot on the ski (which they do exceptionally well) and release the boot in a hard fall (which they do exceptionally well if you have them adjusted properly) All my speed skis have Look bindings on them, and I trust them with my life. Other than Tyrolia bindings, I can't say that about other bindings brands when I'm doing a 70 mph SuperG or a 90 mph Downhill...
 

 



70 mph SuperG and a 90 mph Downhill....... Did Smitty get the Warpdrive working?

 

post #33 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by John J View Post





70 mph SuperG and a 90 mph Downhill....... Did Smitty get the Warpdrive working?

 

Who is Smitty?

 

If you mean Chief Engineer Scott, he is a slowpoke and only races in technical events. LOL.

 

I raced in 10 USSA Speed Events this season, and top speeds of 60 to 70 mph in the SuperG and 80 to 90 mph in the Downhill are not that uncommon at all.
 

 

post #34 of 59

I'm not  a doctor, but that second photo - is the heel piece engaged or disengaged? If engaged it looks completely incorrect.

I can't tell from the picture. Nothing should be 'crushed' when the heel is engaged, it should be clamped though.

 

 

post #35 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

Hi folks, 

 

My secondary skis are Dynastar Contact Cross. I find when I ski them that the bindings are very stiff in all ways: stiff when I step in (a very abrupt click in), stiff to step out of (takes a lot of force to push down the heel piece) and they really feel like they don't release properly. I tore my MCL on them where I feel they should have released much sooner, and yesterday I twisted my ankle when I feel they should have released. I've barely skied them this season because the bindings frighten me. 

 

The DIN settings are at 6.5-7. I'm 6', 165lbs. Not a charger, but ski all terrain. My Peak 82s release quite nicely on 6-7. (That setting might even be a bit low on the Peak 82s as I find myself popping out sometimes when I don't want to.)

 

Is there something wrong with these bindings? Or do all PX12s feel like this? 



I have a set of Dynastar Contact 9's with the same bindings and they feel just as you described. They make a loud snap when I get into them and I just kick them off with my ski or boot because my carbon poles just bend when I use them to push down the heel piece.  I'm 5'8" 47 years old and weigh about 190 lbs and have the din set at 8. I'm heavily built not fat and I ski them pretty hard on southeastern Ice pack. I've only lost a ski one time in two seasons and that was when I took the wrong turn at Sugar to a 6' drop off. I didn't see it coming and was going too slow so I dropped like a rock and hit hard. I took a knee to the chin but skied out of it until I had to bail because of traffic. All I know is they came off when they needed to and I have not had a problem with them releasing early which I consider much more dangerous. What you described sounds like my bindings but I would take them to a shop and get them checked out just for your peace of mind.

 

Bryan

 

post #36 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBV13 View Post





I have a set of Dynastar Contact 9's with the same bindings and they feel just as you described. They make a loud snap when I get into them and I just kick them off with my ski or boot because my carbon poles just bend when I use them to push down the heel piece.

 



 



Quote:
Originally Posted by youngsman View Post

That's how my PX12s are as well.  Bent my ski pole just getting out of them.  I don't like them or trust them.  I switched them out for some Look Pivots.



Stop pushing down to release.   Push backwards and lift your heels.   They click right open.

post #37 of 59

Just saw this thread and I have to agree that these bindings are definitely much harder to release (while stationary, not skiing) - at least compared to Marker and Fischer bindings.  However, when I took a fall while going a little too fast on a bump run, they released perfectly.  That's what counts, right?

post #38 of 59
I've never had a pre release with px12 on my mythics, I love to push them too. Yet they have always released when I did something stupid. Do notice they are a little harder to step in and release manually. Even stopped using my pole and now just us the back if my ski.
Defiantly one solid binding that I feel comfortable pushing hard.
post #39 of 59

you said: it never released on a single one of my falls" ; this sounds like frequent falling is normal skiing for you....but how many times a person falls can be an issue. fall enough times and you will be hurt, with any binding IMO. the safety binding idea is that many falls can be safe falls; not all falls are guaranteed safe. so the more you fall, the more likely you will eventually fall in a way that is not protected well by a safety binding. If you fall a lot, trying new, difficult things perhaps, you really might consider a lower din setting than recommended, making the good retention of Looks a  positive feature.

 

some of this (posts about sticking poles in heel pieces) sounds like complaining about a Porsche because the door handle is not conveniently located to open with a coke in your hand.

 

Yes, my son and I have about 6 pairs of skis mounted with PX's and Pivots.

post #40 of 59

If someone thinks the bindings don't release easily enough there is an clear and obvious solution, lower the din! In this thread there was alot of words wasted on the fact that the PX heel is harder to click in to than other bindings. I alway attributed this is to the fact that the PX heel has higher forward pressure (they advertize 30% higher than the turntables) than most other bindings. Forward pressure is what helps the binding keep solid contact with the boot though the ski may be flexing under foot. Forward pressure has nothing to do with din release settings.

post #41 of 59

It is a pretty painful thread. One trip to a reputable shop would have the OP sorted out and everyone's undies de-bunched. Then we could talk about fear and lift lines in far away places. smile.gif

post #42 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

It is a pretty painful thread. One trip to a reputable shop would have the OP sorted out and everyone's undies de-bunched. Then we could talk about fear and lift lines in far away places. smile.gif



 

Well, I'm over my limit for giving a thumbs up to this post, but I think it's a pretty darn good post.

post #43 of 59

Not sure if it's been said yet, push back, not down to release.

post #44 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post

Not sure if it's been said yet, push back, not down to release.



I just stomp with one ski on the binding of the other ski release lever of the seconds ski, then with the free boot on the lever of the first ski. Poles play no role at all, its not hard folks.

 

 

post #45 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post



I just stomp with one ski on the binding of the other ski release lever of the seconds ski, then with the free boot on the lever of the first ski. Poles play no role at all, its not hard folks.

 

 



I do it with rentals but I hesitate for fear of damaging the bases. I've cracked the tips of my leki poles using them to click out of the PX, so that's not a much better option.

post #46 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by karpiel View Post

Not sure if it's been said yet, push back, not down to release.



icon14.gifEXACTLYicon14.gif

post #47 of 59

_DSC0001a.jpg

 

Look at the attached picture to show the correct position of the binding in the mount (left side) and correct tension of the binding ( right side). This are Look/Dyanstar Px14's.  Download the manual(s) as there are two, based on vintage (search google for look, dynastar, rossi service/shop manual).

 

I had issues with professionally mount bindings being done incorrectly and had to correct the issue.

 

Ugly Legal Stuff...For informational purposes only!  Have a professional do this!

 

G

post #48 of 59
Thread Starter 

Thanks guys. It turned out to be a problem with the bindings themselves. I have a new set of PX12s that are fine. Still relatively stiff when stepping in and out, but no death grip. Not related to the DIN setting or sole length. Good call on getting a pressure test -- good luck on trying to get one done though as many shops lack the tools for it (whether or not they should have the tools is a totally different story). 

 

As far as davluri's comments on "why are you falling": people sometimes fall during skill development, or even when freeskiing--sometimes even more than one time ever in their lifetimes! You may have also seen racers or instructors fall. (It can sometimes be safer to fall than to attempt a recovery.) While not every fall will release safely using current binding technology, that's no reason to ignore particularly unsafe equipment.

post #49 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Metaphor_ View Post

As far as davluri's comments on "why are you falling": people sometimes fall during skill development, or even when freeskiing--sometimes even more than one time ever in their lifetimes! You may have also seen racers or instructors fall. (It can sometimes be safer to fall than to attempt a recovery.) While not every fall will release safely using current binding technology, that's no reason to ignore particularly unsafe equipment.

There seems to be some ego in play here. Let's leave that out of it.

1) davluri responded perfectly to you! If you want to "push it" and fall a lot, lower the DIN and take advantage of the greater elasticity.

2) There's nothing "particularly unsafe" about the PX / Pivot 2 heel's design. Nothing you experienced suggested there is such a situation. What you may have experienced is a single item defect, which is far different than a defective design. Please see your local plaintiff's product liability lawyer for a more thorough explanation on his dime! biggrin.gif
post #50 of 59

FWIW, I have had the same experience w/ PX12's being significantly more difficult to get out of, to the point of damaging poles being used to push the release. Mine were mounted in spring 2012 & I've skiied on 6-7 different pairs of skis w/ non PX12 bindings. They did release when it counted - on a yard on mine on DIN 5.
 

post #51 of 59

I have PX12 bindings on my Outland 72 skis.  I'm 6'1 270.  When adjusted by the shop I took them to when bought new, I identified myself as a type 3 skier.  The shop set my bindings at 8 DIN.  According to the manual I looked up, this would be indicated for someone my size as a type 2, however I have no complaints.  They have released the 1 or 2 times I wanted them to, and never have when I didn't.  They are a bit tough to click out of with the pole.  I'd take them to a shop where they can properly set and test the release.  

 

Edit:  I'm a dummy and didn't read the entire thread before posting.  Glad you got them checked and replaced!

post #52 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson71 View Post

I have PX12 bindings on my Outland 72 skis.  I'm 6'1 270.  When adjusted by the shop I took them to when bought new, I identified myself as a type 3 skier.  The shop set my bindings at 8 DIN.  According to the manual I looked up, this would be indicated for someone my size as a type 2, however I have no complaints. 

 

What's your BSL?

post #53 of 59

BSL is 345.  Had to look it up on the workorder from having it done.  Seems like I also have NX10 and not PX12 as I thought...redface.gif

post #54 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by jameson71 View Post

BSL is 345.  Had to look it up on the workorder from having it done.  Seems like I also have NX10 and not PX12 as I thought...redface.gif

 

That's pretty big.    If your BSL was lower, your DIN window setting would be higher.

post #55 of 59

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN_tKBQyOgE

 

 

On the redesigned PX12 for 2015.  Just past one minute "It takes much less effort to get into and out of this new heel piece"

post #56 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by PRAGMATICSKIER View Post

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RN_tKBQyOgE


On the redesigned PX12 for 2015.  Just past one minute "It takes much less effort to get into and out of this new heel piece"

Old thread but another example of the best getting even better.
post #57 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coach13 View Post


Old thread but another example of the best getting even better.

Yeah, I've had no problem whatsoever coming out of the new Look bindings. Staying in them? Completely different story.

post #58 of 59
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

Yeah, I've had no problem whatsoever coming out of the new Look bindings. Staying in them? Completely different story.
YMMV and you're a shop guy I respect, but Look and my Tyrolia Railfex are the only bindings I've owned that I haven't had issues with pre-release.
post #59 of 59

Get both the sole length setting and the release settings checked by a fully qualified shop.  I like Look/Rossi/dynastar bindings a lot, but they aren't the most user-friendly.

 

Blizzard (part of the Technica/Nordica group) puts Marker bindings on their skis.

 

I think there are just four binding makers left, or just four big ones.  Marker (owned by Jarden who owns K2 & Volkl), Head/Tyrolia, Rossi (including Look & Dynastar), and Atomic/Salomon owned by Amersport (Atomic & Salomon look different--are they different under the skin?).  These makers, especially Head and Marker, label the bindings for many other ski makers.

 

One more thing--when getting out of these bindings, it is a big help to strongly lift your heel as you push down on the binding piece.  Other bindings release more easily without the strong heel lift.


Edited by SoftSnowGuy - 5/1/15 at 10:52am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Look PX12 bindings overly stiff?