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K2 Apache bevel?

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 



New to the forums and want to start tuning my own gear (after a 15 year hiatus from skiing).  Got a pair of K2 Apache Raiders to get into the swing of shaped skiis and am wondering what bevel to put on the side?  I don't to "wreck" what's already on it if I go with a 1 degree, for example.  Is there an easy/quick way to find out the bevel on there now?





post #2 of 21

There are measuring devices out there, but when I wrote to K2 a few years back about my Apache Outlaws, it was 1 and 1.  I've heard since then that they may have differences from that, but at the time I was told all their skis were 1 degree side bevel.  Are these used? 


The K2 site NOW says:




K2 Skis Factory Edge Bevels

Our skis come from the factory with a hot wax. They arrive tuned with a 1 degree base edge and 1.5 degree side edge bevel.

I've been looking for such a thing...not a lot available and my "adjustable" side bevel guide will not lock in between degrees.


Almost all I have found for 1.5 degree side wall involve the type of edge bevel guide that involves swapping plates in and out. 

Edited by sibhusky - 4/14/11 at 12:41pm
post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 

No they're brand new a couple months ago, got a fantastic deal on clearance, couldn't pass it up.  I'm quite happy with them.  So if they're saying 1.5, I think that's practically impossible for me to hit on my own at home.  Would you recommend a 1+1 or a 1+2?




post #4 of 21

It's a discontinued line, that's why I asked. 


I can tell you that the vast majority of people on this board will start shouting 1+2.  Personally, I've got a pair of old K2 XP's I've tuned to that, along with a coarse linear base structure for spring.  I don't know if it's the base structure or the bevel, but I really don't enjoy skiing them unless it's slushy.  And I have the Recons, which are essentially the XP's, so it shouldn't be this issue to get adjusted to it.  I don't know if it's the structure or the bevel, or the combination, but I have to think quite a bit to ski them.  My other skis are 1 + 1.  In soft snow, it doesn't make much of a difference IMO.  It's if you start hitting hardpack that the difference becomes pronounced.  What are your other skis?  I'd go with that. 

post #5 of 21

1/2!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! biggrin.gif


But sib has it right.  If you're going to be on hard snow go with a 1/2, but if you're on soft snow a 1/1 would be fine.  

post #6 of 21

No doubt there are a whole lot of folks who've forgotten more than I've ever known about tuning. Ideally they will chime in.


But, FWIW, what I've gleaned from reading over the years is that 1/1 is the industry standard for recreational skis. A 1/2 (side edge/base edge) offers a slight advantage in tipping the ski on edge (again, from what I've read).


What I know from my own experience (way too many decades) is that there is nothing better than tuned edges. I deburr (as needed) and file as needed after every trip. My 1/1 tuning has never let me down on hard pack, even when intermixed with ice (so long as I'm carving). And not to worry about wearing out the edges before the ski. At the pace ski technology advances, you'll be able to hang em' over the fireplace before the edges are toast. <g>


One further note: good tools are key. El cheapo, do it all tools are no bueno.

post #7 of 21

I know no one that skis on a 1/1. So much for industry standard for Rec. skis!   It should be based on ski owner preference!~


Most skis have a 1/2


The OP should go to a 1/3 and never look back.  No downside in softsnow, all the edge grip you need for hard snow!


Just DO it!  1/3


If you hate it (I sincerely doubt this!) you can change side edge bevel up  and down at will w/o a stone grind! So you could go back to a 2 side edge or even try a 4 (which is what I have on a couple of pair of my skis (.7/4)


post #8 of 21
Thread Starter 
Well I'm on East Coast and don't see much real powder. Most of my time is spent (currently, at least) on hard pack and groomers. The Raiders bite pretty good on the hard stuff, not much bounce. Like I said, I'm very happy with them for the price, and my first shaped skis ever!

Not to stray off my own topic here, but.........Dirt......that was gonna be my next questions actually: what edge tools would I "need" (vs "want") and if there are any recommendations. I don't wanna buy crap stuff, but I also don't want to shell out big money on tools that would be lost on recreational, non-racing use.
post #9 of 21

East Coast, definetly a 1/3!


Look at SVST Final Cut base edge beveler. Just buy a 1 degree.  and SVST Aluminum w/stainless steel glide plate Side Edge beveler. (You can buy a kit that has a 90 degree beveler  and comes with 3 additional shims to  do a 1 ,2 or 3 degree or you can by 1 dedcited 3 degree only.


As far as stones go Moonflex Diamond stones are the way to go.


A true hard Arkansas stone, a medium gummi stone and short bastard file  (Swix is good) and a 2nd cut Swix short file.  2nd Cut: (16 teeth/cm) 4 3/4 inches. No tang Bastard: (13 teeth/cm)


A Swix extra- fine 18 Teeth per cm. file (for base edge beveleing) 


Should be able to do this (And this is all top quality stuff) for mayube $225.00


One word of caution, to increase the side edge angle from a 1 to a 2 or 3 on your K2's you may have to cut the side wall back. You can do this with a dedicated side wall planer/removal tool or with a 7 degree side edge beveler (these are made specifically for the procedure known as backfiling) with a short Panser (Cross) file.


Questions? ask away!


post #10 of 21

If you're getting a kit for the side bevel, you can advance slowly to whatever you finally get to. 


Just saying, Atomicman, this guy hasn't skied in a while, let him grow into it a bit. 

post #11 of 21

With all due respect,with base bevel, yes I would agree with you. Going to a .5 or even a .7 for a returning skier would be a big adjustment and could be very detrimental to thier progression.


But, come on, a 3 degree side edge takes no such adjustment. I mean my wife's (who is a terminal intermediate) old Atomic  C9's(pretty much an intermediate ski) came from the factory with a 3 degree anjd she skis them with no problem. And she does not ski that often!


Less base bevel takes some big adjustment, more side edge bevel just gives you more edge hold, and this guy is on the East Coast on top of it.


You would not catch me (or maybe you would have to catch me) slipping around on a 1 or 2 degree on East Coast boiler!

post #12 of 21

I have the SVST tools that Atomicman recommended and can vouch for their quality and user-friendliness. However, many posters here recommend leaving the base bevel alone, i.e., not even sharpening between grinds. I personally touch up my base edges but if OP wishes to enter the world of tuning gradually, he could just get the side edge tools and files/stones. Eliminating the expensive Final Cut base tool and the v fine file will save some significant $s. I did not look up the prices but the Final Cut is expensive. 


On the question of which side edge angle, I have almost all of my skis  with .05 base and 3 side. However, I have a softer, mid-fat ski I use in deeper new snow, bumps, spring conditions and western trips that I have at 1 base and 2 side. I tried it at 3 side for a year but just didn't like it as well for some intangible reason. It may be that I do more non-carving moves with that ski. But then again I don't use that on hard pack (other than the ice under the spring slush). I would say for carving and ice hold, a side angle of 3 is preferable and not hard to adjust to. But 2 is certainly workable.

post #13 of 21
Thread Starter 

Ya that's a bit info overload for me!  LOL.  My thought was exactly that, to get into the side edges and not touch the base edge (at least for now).  I can get used to the setups and feel out on the slopes as well.  Sounds like it may be a good idea to go with a 2-degree side bevel for my conditions/location.  I spent some time just pushing the boards around for awhile and plan on juicing up the speed this winter.  Keep in mind I was only out less than 10 times this year (started late in the season) for the first time in 15 years, and first time on parabolics. In any event, sounds like some basic side edge tools is the way to go, plus waxing....get a feel for what's involved, get my wife learning to do her gear, then move up from there and add base tools.






post #14 of 21

I have the Apache Raider and have been skiing 1/3 - and as they say - I have never looked back.  Recently upgraded to the Recon - a new set from 2010 that will be getting the 1/3 treatment in the next few weeks. 

post #15 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks Hand, I appreciate the info. I think I'll start with a 1+2 and see how it goes, maybe move up to a 1+3.
post #16 of 21

I am skiing the same models and tried a 2x2 for ease of initiation, I backed it off to a 1.5 x 2 and am quite happy with that.  Very easy to start a turn for teaching on the flats, plenty of edge hold even on clear hard pack base.   I have another pair with less foot width that are 1x1 and still easy to ski.  Both pair are 177 cm and I expect to get another season from each pair.   These are  the older version of the Apache, ie Axis  XP and the XT  from about 9 years ago.    A 1 degree base bevel is a 1 mm rise at 60 mm  if you use a file to get the base angle.     HAve fun and good luck. 


post #17 of 21

A 2/2 would produce extrememly undersirable results as would a 1.5/2


1 degree of base bevel has pleenty of room and sideslip your skis with no base edge interference.


1.5 degrees would reuqire way too much tipping for most skiers in order to reach the side edge.


I would compare  a 1.5 degree to an old '50's pickup truck with a loose steering box.


A one degree would be a new American sedan with a nice anount of power steeering


.5 would be a Porsche!biggrin.gif


Jim do you have some sort of alignment issue (canting/), you should not be enjoying a 1.5 degree base bevel.



post #18 of 21

All of the alignments are just fine. If you want to ski a piece of gear that requires more effort to start a turn than I do use them. I am on slope a long time and my old legs want energy left at the end of the day.  I find my skis are easy to turn on a dime and will give me change in short quick turns and still carve a turn at 50+   I ski them the way I like them, you do your thing, I'll do mine.  And a 50's truck drove just fine on the farm.

post #19 of 21



Next time you're skiing on a farm, they should be great!rolleyes.gif


How do you figure a 2 degree  takes less effort to start a turn then a 1 degree. BSmeter.gif


And I am probably older then you are~eek.gif


I would have to respectfully disagree with your entire post.


I would be beat trying to get a 2 degree on edge all day long!duel.gif

Edited by Atomicman - 5/16/11 at 12:06pm
post #20 of 21

They come from the factory will a 1/1 bevel. Just make sure the skis are sharp all the way to the contact points. 

post #21 of 21

What they come from the factory with is pretty much meaningless!


Folks should tune them to their own liking for the best performance and skiability.

Originally Posted by cruddog View Post

They come from the factory will a 1/1 bevel. Just make sure the skis are sharp all the way to the contact points. 


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