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Best way to learn bumps? - Page 14

post #391 of 419

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abox View Post




 

Isn't everything you have to say on the subject already in this thread somewhere?  As well as all the others?   Paragraphs, diagrams, pictures, videos, QCT, stuff tips, pivot/slip/skid, rut slamming, where's your video, etc. etc. etc..over and over and over. Clearly I can't look away...maybe impressed, maybe just morbidly curious...but how do you muster the energy to re-post thread after thread, page after page, with such unflagging enthusiasm?

 



 

post #392 of 419

Nail, do you have a link to video of race type carved turns on a groomer? Also would like to see wide pow and crud skiing.

post #393 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post



 Why would you even post?  No one has dominated this thread but if you have a message lets hear it?  It is SKIING & IT IS STILL THE SAME AS IT ALWAYS WAS.

 

No one listens everyone is an expert on skiing. If you don't care then stay out. This is fun, plus we know it would help ever skier on the thread if they don't lose focus or if they stay on task.

 

 lars go skiing and try some new stuff. Oh I guess you do, already done that. lars hits an new high on the BS meter of the rector scale.

 



This being only the second post i've put up here at Epic Ski for 6 months now. I've become bored at your repetition of you and nail touting the same old bullshit about QCT's and the technical line. For two years now I really doubt anyone with any real knowledge of ski technique or experience at mogul skiing thinks you two guys can explain what your game really is and the motive behind your rantings, other than to try and defend your beliefs and teaching methods.

 

Frankly, I fault the Moderators and Admin of epic Ski for allowing this crap to taint the minds of people who aspire to become better mogul skiers and skiing in general. It's threads like this that have become the demise of this website for allowing it to go on for 14 pages and months of you guys slaming world cup skiers and others who don't happen to agree with your drivel.

 

It's threads like this that have turned a probable teaching tool into senseless mindgames. I don't care to ever be a part of it again.

 

post #394 of 419

Then why are you adding to the non sense?  Your say the moderators should ban or delete  this thread. Maybe you should be go to Mogul Skiing .Net where if you have any other ideas other than those of the the 90,s crew on low angle runs where speed control is not needed and ride the zipper line till you hurt & can not ski moguls any longer.

 

All we ask is try it as it is the same as the beloved CSIA is doing but quicker, faster. We try to dictate to the MT. & turn where we want to not where the terrain tells us to is a big difference in how you bump as opposed to how we  mogul skiing.

 

Sounds like you live on the dark side of the moon. Zipper line or rut skiing  is beginner bumping you see right where to turn so the Mt. just told you where to turn. You thought that was the best beating I ever got. Never made one turn on my own. Followed where the water would flow or went bowling but only got cutter balls all day with a score of 0. I know how to slam the bumps with my turn all in the bottom half of the C and I'm hot.

 

We have given some simple ways to improve anyone's skiing if the closed minds would try it. Rusty in a post in this thread said it helped his skiing. Why not yours lars. Get off the dark side as it is all dark were you are concerned.

 

The answer in  America today is ban ban or regulate the information. Glad that this site is a more tolerant than that.

 

Thank you Epic

 

 


Edited by cvj - 9/17/11 at 7:33am
post #395 of 419
Thread Starter 

Is carving all the time (from racing to lazy park-n-riding) bad for developing bump skills?

 

 

Is it bad for all-mountain skiing in general to never get off your train-track trenches left on the pistes?

post #396 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Is carving all the time (from racing to lazy park-n-riding) bad for developing bump skills?

 

 

Is it bad for all-mountain skiing in general to never get off your train-track trenches left on the pistes?

lars the BS meter stops here the proof is in how this kid has improved his skill and knowledge of the sport doing what we say.

 

Not at all bump skiing is still skiing the better the basics skiing skills are the better.

 

Ski how you want.

 

Back to The Best Way To Learn The Bumps= Short Radius Turn so skier can ski the fall line. Went back 2 years ago to see some improvement from then to now. This kid is not only killing the skiing but even understands the theory of loading the ski from  tip to tail. More practice more turns is how he will improve now with slight tweaks to his movements.

 

Now same skier @ 10 years old doing QCT or SVMM with much success.

 

 


 

 

post #397 of 419

I like it!  The second video link isn't showing for me.  Maybe you forgot to add it?  I would like to see his improvement.

post #398 of 419

 

Quote:

CVJ wrote:

 

Back to The Best Way To Learn The Bumps= Short Radius Turn so skier can ski the fall line. Went back 2 years ago to see some improvement from then to now. This kid is not only killing the skiing but even understands the theory of loading the ski from  tip to tail. More practice more turns is how he will improve now with slight tweaks to his movements.

 

Now that about says/SHOWS it all.  It's a cry'n shame he's going to have to "relearn" how to ski if he wants to ski like the CSIA guys someday. LOL

 

Who's trip'n the BS meter now?

 

I know my skiing "sucks" because I'm to far forward and can't execute a dolphin turn, but I'm going certify myself an official Level 1 SVMM Instructor anyways.  My certification test results are posted above in (2) videos.  Where can I find yours?  Do I get a discount on cocoa now?

 

Actually I'm an Official Certification Instructor's Certification Instructor Official. (still no cocoa discount though)

 

Thanks for putting those clips together CVJ, very nice real life example of the benefits and progression of developing a QCT and repeatedly challenging the technical line.  He knew at 8 where he wanted "to go", he saw it every mogul run, turn into the mogul face and over the tops, but it took a couple of years to dial it in.  I'd say the skiing on the Blue Grouse section (1:08 10 yr. video) is textbook SVMM skiing, that section is steep with big moguls he sticks it about as clean as anyone can ski it IMO.

 

I really like how Lucas was doing his best to "ski the tops" using round turns on Upper Holiday @ 8 and not get sucked down into the zipper and the improvement to the pole plant is really what brings it all together IMO.  When a skier can finally stabilize the Chest COM and float it straight down the fall line, which hand position/pole flick are key tools to do it, the turns become so much quicker,  rounder, smoother and powerful.  The opposite timing of the pole plants on that groomed section is "Classic"!  He never had the confusion/problem in the bumps, he'd say it was natural, didn't have to "think" about it and usually reached or at least touched the downhill pole to turn around it.

 

One thing  people may find interesting is that the skiing from :32 to the end of the 10 yr. old video is compiled from sections of (1) run/chair ride, with a 500' section of Mid Holiday missing (he videoed me).  It starts on Upper Christmas Bowl, traverse over to Blue Grouse (top section of moguls missing also) and then onto the cat over to Holiday/Lwr Holiday and out the groomed to the chair.  When its on, we may do this lap 5 times in under 2 hrs.  Imagine the skiing we get in during the rest of the day, thanks to high speed quads.  Back "in the day", this would take an entire day, kids today have a huge learning curve advantage, but the pow sure gets tracked a lot sooner too.

 

 

post #399 of 419

How many days on snow in those two years?

post #400 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Is carving all the time (from racing to lazy park-n-riding) bad for developing bump skills?

 

 

Is it bad for all-mountain skiing in general to never get off your train-track trenches left on the pistes?



yes to both. duh.

post #401 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ghost View Post

How many days on snow in those two years?


He skis on weekends & holidays so about 50 to 60 days a year. No back pedaling  either. Just reach for the snow with the tips of the skis.

 

Try playing both video's at the same time. Watch the skiers can not believe it is the same skier. Now who is blowing smoke?

post #402 of 419

We've got 10 yr olds in our bump programs at both holiday and Holimont who are just as good, if not better. The same programs that produced Olympic medalists Travis Mayer and Jillian Vogtli.

 

You put any athletic 10 yr old on skis 50 days a year for two years in a row with a good instructor and he's going to be good, whether it's bumps or gates.

 

It's all relative Joey. Your method is no better or no worse than other bump technique. Problem is, yours doesn't comply with W.C. scoring. Your Son couldn't medal because of his methods. It's not the W.C. judges fault. It's an inferior technique in their eyes. Just because you don't happen to agree with it doesn't mean it's not right.

 

That's your problem not ours.

 

Do I think it's good skiing? Yes I do. But, it's not the best way for all and not the preferred way designated for the WC or the Olympics.

 

You're a one way ticket man. Move on.

post #403 of 419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post





yes to both. duh.



You and CVJ have given conflicting information.  Hopefully the confusion subsides by the time winter rolls around.

post #404 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post





You and CVJ have given conflicting information.  Hopefully the confusion subsides by the time winter rolls around.


Thought we agreed.

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

We've got 10 yr olds in our bump programs at both holiday and Holimont who are just as good, if not better. The same programs that produced Olympic medalists Travis Mayer and Jillian Vogtli.

 

You put any athletic 10 yr old on skis 50 days a year for two years in a row with a good instructor and he's going to be good, whether it's bumps or gates.

 

It's all relative Joey. Your method is no better or no worse than other bump technique. Problem is, yours doesn't comply with W.C. scoring. Your Son couldn't medal because of his methods. It's not the W.C. judges fault. It's an inferior technique in their eyes. Just because you don't happen to agree with it doesn't mean it's not right.

 

That's your problem not ours.

 

Do I think it's good skiing? Yes I do. But, it's not the best way for all and not the preferred way designated for the WC or the Olympics.

 

You're a one way ticket man. Move on.

Lars the BS meter is all yours. So show us video. With this post that you were leaving the thread. If it is not for you than butt out as you are the expert zipper liner bumper. It is a shame when some one can not admit when they may need to improve or move on to something new. Insane doing the same thing over and over expecting a different result.

 

4th @ Olympic Trails is nothing either. He is normally the fastest skier too. But the technique does not work I read all the thread.

 

Now you mention the bumpers from your home Mt. I watched these skiers for many years but never have seen them ski any where but the man made bump course. Most of the WC skiers don't ski any where but the course so they only know the Man Made Bump Course. So the turns are all in the lower half of the C or bottom of the rut waiting to hit some thing and go the other way. They really don't like skiing as a sport for life. The Zipper line is killing real mogul skiing IMO.

 

My son was hurt so stick it where the sun don't shine. Look out for him this year as he is healed.  The WC judges are not skiers & don't know an angulated turn from a pivot turn. On I guess I don't either. Once again the Inferior technique is the zipper liners only knowing zipper lining like yourself. Go to some steep runs and get off the blue runs where your glory hole skiing is to easy and elementary.


The one ticket is what your zipper line to nowhere. Never said the zipper line was wrong, just more to it than that.

 

BTW I ski for myself and decide what works and what does not. The technique's are  for the average skier not the WC Glory hole skiers on intermediate runs. I like to ski natural moguls on expert runs...........


Edited by cvj - 9/19/11 at 6:20am
post #405 of 419

Lars why do you think that the WC is about ski technique?

 

Far from it  is an air show with the skis going across the fall line any way from Pivot Skid Slide or deflect. If the skis across the fall line it is a turn no matter how little or how far across they go.......

post #406 of 419

Okay nothing new no one answer a real ? Another dead thread but wait.

 

Don't take my word for what we have said in this thread. Go to Ski Racing 4-7-11 TECH TALK  page 61-62 as they have seen the theories in practice and they know it is different then other clubs in Freestyle are doing. Basic skiing skills come first.

post #407 of 419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

 Another dead thread but wait.

 


Let's reignite it... What do you think about these drills as a pro mogul skier?  What else would you add to help amateur mogul skiers?

 

http://www.skinet.com/ski/content/get-mogul-skiing-shape

 

 

Also, are there any exercises to beef up the muscles that TWIST the skis (steering), which is essential in bumps?  (I just can't think of anything in the gym like that.... only thing would be to twist on the lift ride up, but that'll make you look like a douche)

post #408 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post




Let's reignite it... What do you think about these drills as a pro mogul skier?  What else would you add to help amateur mogul skiers?

 

http://www.skinet.com/ski/content/get-mogul-skiing-shape

 

 

Also, are there any exercises to beef up the muscles that TWIST the skis (steering), which is essential in bumps?  (I just can't think of anything in the gym like that.... only thing would be to twist on the lift ride up, but that'll make you look like a douche)


While Patrick Deneen makes them all look easy, i'm sure they are not.

I'm sure they will help tighten down the core and add overall strength,

even if they dont directly translate to technique on the hill.

 

 

I think A/E (absorb/extend) are the major muscle effort, while the steering 

seems to require more quickness than strength.

 

On a leg press you could allow the knees to rise up on alternating sides of 

your chest, mirroring what happens on the frontside of the mogul.

 

if you find you can hold the line but run out of gas --> gym

If you cant hold the line that you want to ski --> mogul technique / practice.

 

ps  - do you ever ski at Peak-N-Peek?  They usually have nice mogul lines on Will-O-Wisp

 

 

post #409 of 419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post




While Patrick Deneen makes them all look easy, i'm sure they are not.

 

I've been at them for 4 months... the bosu-ball work is addictive... I love getting on that thing.

 

ps  - do you ever ski at Peak-N-Peek?  They usually have nice mogul lines on Will-O-Wisp

 

I get there occasionally... they do have nice bump lines... I hope I'll be able to ski them if/when I return.



 

post #410 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

Okay nothing new no one answer a real ? 


 

What is the SVMM progression to move a kid from a wedge to the QCT you make?

post #411 of 419

The best way to learn bumps? 

 

Through imitation.  Ski with someone good and imitate them.  I think it's the best way to learn everything in skiing. 

 

 

Quote:  From BoredAtBMBW
For the record, I hate bumps... I have no interest in them, and think they are bad on the knees. 

 

They're only bad for your knees if you don't absorb right. 

 

If you hate bumps, stay away from Mary Jane, it will be your worst nightmare.  lol

 

 

 

post #412 of 419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blake Saunders View Post

 

If you hate bumps, stay away from Mary Jane, it will be your worst nightmare.  lol

 

 

 



I did... I rocked Lonesome Whistle, March Hare, and White Rabbit like it was my job.

post #413 of 419

The best way to learn bump skiing is to ski the bumps.

 

Now obviously you also need to ski with correct technique, but if you're hesitate to go down a bump trail, or you don't have the opportunity to practice, you're never going to get better.

 

I'm speaking from experience, my bump technique has definitely regressed the past couple years when I've only been able to get out 5-10 times a year, and half of that time I'm limited to groomers because of the conditions.

post #414 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by St Bear View Post

The best way to learn bump skiing is to ski the bumps.

 

Now obviously you also need to ski with correct technique, but if you're hesitate to go down a bump trail, or you don't have the opportunity to practice, you're never going to get better.

 

I'm speaking from experience, my bump technique has definitely regressed the past couple years when I've only been able to get out 5-10 times a year, and half of that time I'm limited to groomers because of the conditions.


Bump skiing is like golf.

 

You can golf everyday of the year and never improve mainly because you don't have a good swing. ,

 

If you have good bump technique you will always have good bump technique.

 

If you don't, you can ski all day, everyday, and not get better.

 

The law of averages say you will probably have a few good runs though.

 

You ski 100 days with bad technique and the only thing you're going to do is refine that bad technique.

 

Only if you're a good skier can you become a good bump skier.

 

There was a quote here in another thread that rings true. " it's not that you can't ski bumps, it's that you can't ski, and the bumps prove it"

 


 

 

post #415 of 419
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post

Bump skiing is like golf.

 

You can golf everyday of the year and never improve mainly because you don't have a good swing. ,

 

If you have good bump technique you will always have good bump technique.

 

If you don't, you can ski all day, everyday, and not get better.

 

The law of averages say you will probably have a few good runs though.

 

You ski 100 days with bad technique and the only thing you're going to do is refine that bad technique.

 

Only if you're a good skier can you become a good bump skier.

 

There was a quote here in another thread that rings true. " it's not that you can't ski bumps, it's that you can't ski, and the bumps prove it"

 

 

 


That's some riveting shit right there.

 

post #416 of 419
Thread Starter 

Serious question... if I really intend to brush up my bump skiing this year, on those days I focus on bumps should I bring shorter poles?  (right now I have a pair of race poles that is a touch long by preference for racing and such).

post #417 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitamin Ski View Post

Serious question... if I really intend to brush up my bump skiing this year, on those days I focus on bumps should I bring shorter poles?  (right now I have a pair of race poles that is a touch long by preference for racing and such).



I would say if you poles are touch long then use something just a bit shorter.

 

for me its the same poles I use freeskiing, SL skiing, and literally everything but GS.

post #418 of 419

Long poles are a hindrance in bumps and a benefit in pushing at the start of a race.  I would say go for shorter poles in bumps, but I suck at bumps anyway and the last time I spent a day practicing bumps I had no poles (busted thumb was healing up), so take my advice with a grain of salt.

post #419 of 419
Take Ghost's advice and ditch the poles altogether for periods while brushing up on your bump skiing, but you don't have to break your thumb!
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