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Best way to learn bumps? - Page 9

post #241 of 419

Pssssst....Nails....Nails...

 

Over here mate,

 

 

Here is two tips for you:

 

1: Your COM is around your belly button...not center of chest.

2: Ruts go down, bumps go up.  If the tips/skier goes "up" we say he hit a "bump".  If the skier was just avoiding the bumps, the skis would never go "up.  

 

 

 

 

 

post #242 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

 

I understand the confusion in the concept of the COM and how it is mobile, that's why I stated I consider it the center of my chest because I think it is very confusing to myself and possibly others to visualize this point while it is moving and somewhere in space.  Although my COM may move out of my body and in space, the way I ski, it certainly feels as though it is located in the center of my chest.

 

When I ski, I focus mainly on maintaining a steady and floating point which is the center of my chest.  Everything I do, the movements I make are all in direct relationship to a perceivable fixed point in the center of my chest.  The center of my chest is the center point of the pendulum as my feet travel laterally beneath me from side to side or lineally as my feet move fore and aft in relationship to the fall line.  A better description and actually more realistic to the sensation is maintaining a steady, almost gyroscopic center point at the center of the chest.

 

I say I try to maintain a my center of chest as a floating point, because when I ski moguls, I attempt to mimic the floating/weightless sensation of powder skiing, forward and steady straight down the fall line.  I obviously can't maintain this feeling 100% of the time, but I try to get the feeling back as soon as possible when I lose it.

 

So you acknowledge that the true COM isn't in the centre of your chest, yet you still make a point of skiing as if it was? And you maintain that this is a good thing?

 

I do actually see the merit in considering the centre of your chest the "fixed" point as you ski though. I think about my skiing the same way, with my chest being the "fixed" point relative to my feet, which respond to terrain/turns/speed etc to maintain my balance by moving, vertically, laterally and fore/aft. What I see in your skiing though is a lot of upper body fore/aft movement, trying have your core keep pace with the feet, rather than moving the feet relative to the upper body to maintain balance.

 

 

 

Sure it is decent skiing, these guys are pros and it shows.  I'm also not saying their basic movements and intentions are wrong.  I believe they are doing a lot of things right, it's just that they could be so much better if they were able to maintain a more forward aggressive and upright stance.  It would allow them to regain shovel edge contact during transition or early in the high "C" instead of resorting to the dolphin turn recovery where the edges don't hook up until the fall line of later.  They are late in a majority of their turns, late in initiating edge pressure which results in  hanging on their edges to far back at the turn finish, this is why they get blown out the bottom of the section with GS turns.

These guys are getting on the edges of their tips quite a bit earlier than you do in your video, they're always back on snow and on their edges before the fall line, whereas most of your turns seem to consist of a pivoted skid through the fall line with the edges hooking up very hard quite late in the turn. And as for them getting "blown out into GS turns", I can virtually guarantee you that they switch to a larger radius because the terrain flattens out, and carving medium/long radius turns at speed through soft bumps is really really fun.
 

I disagree that the CSIA guys are typically "stuffing the tips" into the mogul face and going over the tops.  When you turn into the mogul face, the skier is basically finishing the turn straight down the fall line,  they are deflecting laterally near or off the bottom of the mogul sidewall/rut, especially the dolphin turns.  The skiing is very similar to the "technical mogul skiing" video above where the skiers are making very smooth and  snappy carves through the zipperline.  The terrain the CSIA skiers are skiing though is much more demanding, it's steeper and random, very disorganized moguls/ruts.

 

Here's what "stuffing the tips" or turning into the mogul face looks like and then the sweet backside turn that is linked next. The skier has to be forward to and have the ability to generate early shovel pressure in the high "C" in order to stick these turns, it raises the bar to advanced mogul skiing.  A dolphin turn here leads to quite a thrill ride, it's the last option IMO.  Why pass up "natures best groomed snow" on that relatively untouched backside.

 

I don't think you could grab any turns in those locations from the CSIA video, over the tops mogul skiing down the technical line.

Maybe not 100%, but the vast majority of their turns do exactly that. They typically don't approach pointing directly down the fall line as in your photos, more like a 45deg angle to the bumps, but pretty much every turn blasts right through and over the bump.

 

Holiday is filled with huge randdom moguls, the one in the pics above is actually jumbo.  I thought the moguls in the CSIA video looked inviting and very similar actually, I'd like to ski them sometime, what is that run called?

Haha, the moguls is jumbo in size? Or its actually called jumbo? I hope its the second one, naming individual moguls sounds like fun. The CSIA guys are all from Whistler, couldnt tell you which run though. Skidude might be able to help with that, cause he's from there too I believe.

 

You should read what I am promoting, early shovel edge pressure that progressively moves to the center and then aft at the turn finish,  The shovels are still pressured at the turn finish, but pressure is focused centered/aft. IMO, the CSIA skiers are late in most turns and ride either airborne/zero pressure anywhere or centered/aft through the turn.  I think the pics above show that clearly.

Wait, so now there's an aft stage to the QCT? You've spent the last few days talking about (and posting pictures) of a forward stance being ideal...

 

Pretty funny AA,   Are you suggesting that I ONLY generate shovel edge pressure in all phases of my turns?  Are you suggesting I DON'T open my ankles while simultaneously retracting/flexing my knees,  everting/inverting my ankles and extending my hips during transition?  Sheeesh....every turn is more like it.  Did you watch the video?  I assume you are not suggesting opening my ankles at the turn finish, but your comment is, well vague at best.  I'm not the skier that is failiing to generate shovel edge pressure to intiate the next turn, the CSIA skiers are.

Actually...as I said above, they're doing a better job than you of getting an early edge at or above the fall line, where you are typically at or after the fall line. There's definitely some ankle movement in your skiing, but you could do with more. It would help you from landing flat on your skis those times you do catch a bit of air in the bumps, which will tend to happen more and more often as you hit bigger bumps.

 

I think you should post some vide of yourself skiing some moguls so I can see some more CSIA mogul skiing, so I can continue "dreaming" of keeping up with you guys.  You could more clearly explain the benfits of the movements you are making to control speed and maintain line/ fluidity beside using dolphin turns to constantly attempt to recover.

I'd love to, unfortunately I don't have any video of my skiing on my computer, I'll see what I can do once the snow starts falling though. Ha, the constant "attempts" to recover look like they're going well wouldn't you say? Since you have me at a disadvantage in the video department, maybe you have something one a steeper run with bigger moguls, so you can show us how to ski without needing to recover your balance.

 

Maybe I'm being derilect here, I simply fail to see how developing a better dolphin turn, which IMO is nothing more than an airborne/pivot recovery move, is going to ehance my mogul skiing.  I find it revealing that you seem to fail to understand that ANY skier that can navigate the technical line and carry speed has a quite proficient dolphin turn in their quiver, they just don't need it very often.  It's there and they know when they need to use it.

You don't see how being able to maintain your coordination, complete the early portion of a turn while airborne and land in the smoothest possible fashion will help your mogul skiing? Ski a bit faster and you might find out. It mainly has to do with what I touched on above, moving the feet fore and aft under the body like the CSIA guys are doing is a much quicker way to adjust your balance as compared to the slower upper body movements that you appear to do quite a bit in your video.



 

post #243 of 419

Nails, Watch your video and see that many of the bumps are skied off the shoulder. Watch the videos I linked and see that many of the bumps are taken off the shoulder. Those guys are skiing with huge absorption and extension because they are sucking those bumps up and at very high speed on steep runs.

post #244 of 419

Nailbender,

Regarding Centre Of Mass, what's your hat size? eek.gif

 

Some systems of martial arts have different "centres" one somewhat behind and below the belly button, one centred behind the eyes, one centre of chest.  Interesting.  If you can keep three in focus at once along with your base of support and centre of pressure you can do interesting things with balance, dynamics and alignment.

 

Let me see if I have understood the last few pages.

 

Nailbender et. al.  -- You need to have lots of early tip pressure; qct method relies on tipping the skis and applying pressure to the tips to make the skis come around.  Any pivoting of the skis is to be brought about by digging in those tips while the rest of the ski slips.  From watching it is also obvious that after the slip a strong and sudden engagement of the edges applies.  Turning skis via pivoting a flat to the snow, non-engaged, ski is bad.

 

Skidude et. al.  -  extreme focus on tip pressure is limiting; the focus and direction of net force should move through the ski from tip to tail as the turn progresses.  Allowing more freedom in point of pressure focus allows one to move the pivot point wherever one wants it to be on the ski, opening up a larger range of performance options.  Just digging in the tips all too often results in a dead-end default move of push heels to hard edge set and bounce back (notice I didn't say rebound) to repeat on the other side.

 

Pretty much everybody agrees - carving pencil lines through moguls is not the way to learn bumps, and bouncing off the of bumps following the rut line at high speed, like a pinball is not the way to learn bumps.  I must note that doing the former at the top of a bump runs has you doing the latter at the bottom (if you make it that far).

 

Dolphin Turns - fun exercise that aids somewhat in developing for aft skills.  More fun and less work when done in bumps.

 

Bushwhacker - Claims to ski better than everybody who hasn't posted video, but he has posted lots of video so we know exactly how he skis.   wink.gif

 

 

post #245 of 419

 

Quote:

skiatansky wrote:

 

cvj and nails, take a look at the turns shown in this video, especially in the beginning when the kids are all skiing together. This is a great group of juniors that are just ripping it up. What is the progression you teach that gets the kids to this level and how do you teach them to get earlier and earlier high C engagement like cvj uses when he is ripping bumps?

 

Good question. 

 

I'm not a coach for SVSEF Freestyle and my boys aren't on the team yet, next year for the oldest boy (11 now), although we make it to about 5 or 6 competitions/yr. 

 

Here's a few things my boys and I work on.

 

1. Think round.  Practice/practice/practice making QCT's on the edge of the steepest groomed staying within a groomer lane. Often I'll have them ski behind me and have them "match" my tracks.  This makes them slow down and complete their turns so they don't run me over.  It also provides a rhythm or cadence to mimic.

 

2.  When doing the above, I'll ask them to focus on 1 thing during a section and a lot of the times have them exaggerate the focus.

 

3.  We'll often focus on the pole plant, keeping the hands calm, wide and out forward with a wrist flick or snap when they strike it, minimizing arm movements.

 

4.  Work on the firm edge set at the turn finish by closing the ankles sharply and extending the knees.  This brings the skis across the fall line quickly and provides the rebound energy needed to float through transition.  With repeated practice, they get the feeling for how much pressure is needed.  To much pressure and they will skid out and lose pressure.  Stinging the turn finish to late and they will get jetted backseat with their feet getting out to far in front of them.

 

5.  The next variation is to have them focus on driving the inside foot while snapping the heel down at the turn finish, and strike the pole plant at the same time.  This really starts to define the turn finish and launch them into transition.

 

6.  Now we need to harness that rebound energy and take advantage of it.  I'll have them make exaggerated retractions after the turn finish by radically flexing the knees and pulling their feet back under themselves.  This gets their tails off the snow as the ride the shovels into the next turn.   From my experience, this is really when the short turns really start to click.  At first they do all sorts of things, they try to hop, jump, whatever, but quickly start to get the feeling of floating and engaging the shovel edges to initiate the next turn. 

 

7.  Learn to powder ski.  When the kids get it, they now know exactly the feeling that we've been trying to emulate on the groomed when working on making QCT's.  Float/Touch/Sting

 

This all takes time and experimentation, it's not going to happen in day and is easier to pick up if there are others around them making good turns.

post #246 of 419

 

Quote:

Skidude wrote:

 

Here is two tips for you:

 

1: Your COM is around your belly button...not center of chest.

 

The COM at the belly button is irrelevant to me, I focus concentrating stable energy on the center of the chest, everything I do articulates around that point.   I don't focus on keeping my belly button anywhere, it moves laterally from side to side  and fore and aft constantly.  It deflects from the fall line much more than my chest.   I attempt to keep my chest floating smoothly down the fall line, again it's my main focus point when mogul skiing, everything happens relative to this point of concentration.

 

Quote:

 

Skidude wrote:

 

2: Ruts go down, bumps go up.  If the tips/skier goes "up" we say he hit a "bump".  If the skier was just avoiding the bumps, the skis would never go "up.

 

The bottom of the rut transitions to the top of the next rut.  There is a pitch change at that point which may seem like a bump, but probably doesn't go "up", it's more likely flat. 

 

To the side of the bottom of the rut is the base of the the mogul side wall or shoulder, which does go up and ranges from very small where it meets the bottom of the rut to big the further uphill you go towards the mogul face.

 

If the skier deflects off the mogul sidewall, about 12"-18"  above the bottom of the rut, or 1/3 the way up the mogul sidewal,l is best, the skier will deflect in a slightly upwards direction, which is actually more outwards away from the terrain.

 

I think CVJ refers to zipperline skiing as"bump" skiing, bouncing off the bottom of the rut or deflecting off the sidewall.  I agree, this is not mogul skiing, this is skiing around the moguls and is very different from stuffing the tips into the mogul face and linking the backside turn down the technical line.

post #247 of 419

 

Quote:

Ghost wrote:

 

Nailbender,

Regarding Centre Of Mass, what's your hat size? eek.gif

 

Some systems of martial arts have different "centres" one somewhat behind and below the belly button, one centred behind the eyes, one centre of chest.  Interesting.  If you can keep three in focus at once along with your base of support and centre of pressure you can do interesting things with balance, dynamics and alignment.

 

I'm most likely a pinhead.

 

The martial arts centers (I've never been involved or studied) are interesting.  I certainly try to maintain my head (centered behind eyes) relatively stable with the center of my chest, focusing on connecting the 3 is out of my league though.

 

As I think about it more, it does seem that the the movements of the pelvis/hips and my feet are very related to different fore/aft pressures that I generate at different phases of the turn.  The hips open as my feet retract and visa/versa in order to keep my chest over the binding toe piece.

 

In skiing, do you think there is a 4th center that is the feet or center of the skis?  With boots, bindings and skis connected to the feet, there is quite a bit of mass there, especially leveraged as far away from the center of the chest or belly button for that matter. 

post #248 of 419

Pretty typical mogul thread on Epic.  Nail gets on and endlessly repeats his dogmatic drivel.  Others point out that the videos and text don't match up.  Nail continues to repeat himself misusing terminology that he doesn't understand.  The same videos get reposted.....  They still don't show what Nail says they do.....  Because.....  They are the same videos we have already seen, that didn't show it before.  The CSIA videos show skiers who are way superior to any in the SVMM videos but Nail insists they aren't doing it right.  Early shovel pressure high in the C....  Sounds great....  Did you read that somewhere Nail?  I don't see it in your skiing.  Keep repeating it and it must become true, or at least you will continue to believe it to be true.  Natural terrain you say?  I have enjoyed skiing SV in the past, but didn't find it be a great area for natural terrain.  It's certainly no JHMR, Snowbird, Squaw, or Whistler.  There have been some great skiers who have come out of SV and who currently live there.  No doubt about that, but SV is about the last place I would go to spend a winter free skiing on "natural terrain".

 

I'd bet that Nail has far more posts in this thread than Adamadam, Skidude72, UncleLouie, and myself combined.  Keep it up.  Winter is coming soon and the person who posts the most must be right.

 

post #249 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

 

I'm most likely a pinhead.

 

The martial arts centers (I've never been involved or studied) are interesting.  I certainly try to maintain my head (centered behind eyes) relatively stable with the center of my chest, focusing on connecting the 3 is out of my league though.

 

As I think about it more, it does seem that the the movements of the pelvis/hips and my feet are very related to different fore/aft pressures that I generate at different phases of the turn.  The hips open as my feet retract and visa/versa in order to keep my chest over the binding toe piece.

 

In skiing, do you think there is a 4th center that is the feet or center of the skis?  With boots, bindings and skis connected to the feet, there is quite a bit of mass there, especially leveraged as far away from the center of the chest or belly button for that matter. 

A pinhead would have a lower CoM, not one raised up to his chestwink.gif.

 

When you're stuck on easy groomers, you have a lot of time to try out different things, so I have tried a lot of different things.  As a physicist you are free to make a free-body out of any part you want, but how useful it will be is another matter.

 

Personally I relate well to the centre being lower down (in the belly), probably because it isused in the style of martial art I practised the most.  I also relate well to the centre behind the eyes because it coincides with my point of view in a visual sense.  I've often used the "keep the eyes level" while engaged in movement activities, including bump skiing.  There's not a heck of a lot of difference between eye level variations and chest level variations, so your chest level is probably fine.  Using chest in leu of CoM, connects well with the visual-oriented centre, and gives your spring a little greater range of motion to absorb terrain while still being close to your CoM.  Sticking with Chest centre seems like a good approach to me. 

 

I've also used the chest centre in martial arts and find it helps with certain styles of punches, some times routing power from the lower centre to the upper one, then there's the Tai Chi with the power coming from the ground beneath your feet, but I digress.

 

As far as a focus on skis, on some occasions I've found it fun to think of the skis as having a life of their own (but still under my command), like a dog on a slack leash while making sharp cross under transitions, but what comes to mind is that I have often found it useful to focus on the point of application of the net force moving down the ski from tip to tail as I progress through a turn.   I recommend you try that last one.

post #250 of 419

For the record...  I don't have a problem with your skiing or the SVMM.  If it works for you great.  I also don't claim to be great at moguls.  They are not really my "thing", although I ski them everyday.  I never get up in the morning "excited to go and ski some bumps"!  For me bumps are just part of skiing off-piste.  Something you have to do and do well to ski in "natural terrain".  What I object to are the endless "one true method" posts and the written descriptions that doesn't match the video.  If I had video of myself, I would post it.  There is actually no need, because you have proclaimed me to be a "pivot skidder".  It must be true and I am ashamed.  I rarely post anymore because it's not worth arguing about on the internet with someone who only repeats the same dogma over and over.  I have already said most of what I have to say in the previous threads and don't feel like typing it again.

 

I generally choose to let my skiing talk for me.  I don't think you can find a single post of mine where I said I was an exceptional or gifted skier.  I am a strong all mountain/ all conditions skier with over 20 seasons in JH, but I see people everyday who are better than me.  That's the nature of playing in the big leagues.  I am good enough to make a living teaching upper level lessons including bumps, steeps, and tree skiing at one of the top resorts in N. America.  That means that I get paid and people pay for my advice in the real world.  I get a lot of return students, so maybe I know something practical about the subject matter and how to teach it.  Or maybe I AM just a pivot skidder.  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

 

Typical mogul thread on Epic.

 

Members that post video of themselves and use the video to support and discuss/compare their viewpoints and critiques:  CVJ, Bushwacker, TDK6 and Nailbender

 

Members that are very critical of the skiing exhibited in videos posted by members or claim that they can not only match the performance/technique of the skiers in the videos, but they have the experience and abilities to actually do it much better, but never post videos of themselves to back up the claims and enhance the discussion:  TPJ, Skidude72, etc...

 

I see a pattern here.



 

post #251 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

Members that are very critical of the skiing exhibited in videos posted by members or claim that they can not only match the performance/technique of the skiers in the videos, but they have the experience and abilities to actually do it much better, but never post videos of themselves to back up the claims and enhance the discussion:  TPJ, Skidude72, etc...

 

I see a pattern here.


For all we know Skidude72 may be one of those guys in the CSIA video, but then I guess he would be doing it all wrong.

 

Once again TPJ echoes exactly what I am thinking.  BTW, I think CVJ's skiing rocks!  It just seems a bit one dimensional.

 

Thanks again TPJ,

JF

 

 

post #252 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

BTW, I think CVJ's skiing rocks!  It just seems a bit one dimensional.

 

 

 

 

I agree, if I ski like that when I am around 60 I will be very happy. One dimensional == straight lining ;-)
 

 

post #253 of 419

Why are you guys saying cvj skiing is one dimensional? Looks like he can ski anything.

post #254 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

Why are you guys saying cvj skiing is one dimensional? Looks like he can ski anything.


I agree that he could probably ski anything & probably with more ease than most, myself included.

 

I am the one that said "one dimensional".  The reason I say that is more about the QCT than his personal all around skiing (I haven't really seen enough of it to judge).  The particular turn that the SVMM videos portrays seems very limiting as the main tool to ski the whole mountain, in many different conditions or on different types of skis.  For example, there is never any early or progressive edge & pressure in the turns, a tactic I have found useful in many situations & that I am often working on.

 

Hopefully someone else can expand on what I am trying to say.  I hate writing about this stuff on the internet & have found that I am not very good at it.  I do enjoy reading about it though.

 

Thanks,

JF

 

 

post #255 of 419

If a skier uses a technique that empowers them to ski anything then the "one dimensional" label doesn't really apply. A good example of one dimensional is the classic park and ride intermediate skier cruizin green and blue groomers. As soon as the slopes start to get a bit bumpy they fall apart. 

post #256 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

If a skier uses a technique that empowers them to ski anything then the "one dimensional" label doesn't really apply. A good example of one dimensional is the classic park and ride intermediate skier cruizin green and blue groomers. As soon as the slopes start to get a bit bumpy they fall apart. 


Well, just to defend my POV, I don't think the QCT would do me much good in a GS,SG or DH. it may get me down a SL but it wouldn't be very fast on todays SL skis.  I don't think it would get me very far on a big AK line either, I would be worn out or overtaken by slough before I got very far.  Just sayin'.

Thanks,

JF

 

 

post #257 of 419

keep in mind that cvj has mentioned that each year the SVMM guys hold a competition that is bumps and also a race (SG or GS, I don't remember, but not SL). 

 

I think that what cvj has been implying is that if the skier changes the DIRT of the QCT technique they can make a nice carved turn.

post #258 of 419
Thread Starter 

Ok let's refocus.  I've gotten lost in the last three pages of arguments.

 

 

Is it better to ease into bumps on:

 

shorter or longer skis?

 

softer or stiffer?

 

narrower or wider?

post #259 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Ok let's refocus.  I've gotten lost in the last three pages of arguments.

 

 

Is it better to ease into bumps on:

 

shorter or longer skis?       Shorter

 

softer or stiffer?                  Softer

 

narrower or wider?                Try a width in the mid-80's



The key to good bump skiing is to keep fundamentals from your skiing on the groomed terrain and adjust it a bit to fit the bumps.  A slightly flatter ski will work better (no pencil lines.....more scarve / smear  or brushed) than a heavily edged ski.  Fulcrum point at the hip.....the skis move out from underneath the body.

 

Hands always forward and at the ready.  Both blocking pole plants and "pole touch" for timing work.

 

And.....I can't say it enough......Absorb-Absorb-Absorb.

 

post #260 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Uncle Louie View Post





keep fundamentals from your skiing on the groomed terrain and adjust it a bit to fit the bumps. 

 

I think that's really good advice.
 

 

post #261 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Ok let's refocus.  I've gotten lost in the last three pages of arguments.

 

 

Is it better to ease into bumps on:

 

shorter or longer skis?

 

softer or stiffer?

 

narrower or wider?


I'm not an instructor or anything of course, but all things being equal shorter rather than longer, though really ski length is much less of a consideration in bump skiing than people think, IMO.

 

Stiffer if you're skiing hard snow, otherwise kind of depends on your tastes.

Narrower/wider doesn't matter so much to a degree, but I skied bumps a lot last year in a 105 width, and I thought sometimes (when snow was on the hard side) that that was a bit much.

 

post #262 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by skiatansky View Post

keep in mind that cvj has mentioned that each year the SVMM guys hold a competition that is bumps and also a race (SG or GS, I don't remember, but not SL). 

 

I think that what cvj has been implying is that if the skier changes the DIRT of the QCT technique they can make a nice carved turn.


Yes there is a race were the best mogul skiers compete with the best racers on Bald MT. It is called the Lane Parrish Memorial Super G & Mogul Competition.

 

Believe it or not the only winner of both the Super G & Moguls was a SVMM or QCT skier who was a mogul skier 1st & THEN  A SKIER 2ND  WHO SKI SKI ANYTHING.. If you want to get chicked come out next spring for the event. She is consistently in the top 10 in local racing against the guys and beats the lady race coaches but is a SVSEF Mogul Coach. So yes this turn works in all phases of skiing........

 

All the talk of COM is off base.I am with nails COM. If I go to a race, mogul, half pipe. or any ski event I can pick out who will win by who is diving for the fall line with there body 1st racing there skis to the bottom.

 

They are going to beat there skis down the mt. this is leading with your COM.

 

Okay lets think about today's SL skiers to me they are making SL turns that look like small GS arcs. When watching the best SL skiers you see the skis near the fall line & already the outside ski is bent & starting to carve. How they do this is 1st high edge angles, early pressure on the outside ski, & putting the pressure on the fore body of the ski. Look at the outside ski you can see the bottom of the skiers outside ski.

 

 

 

 


Best skis for skiing moguls to me is 105 tip 66 mid and 89 tail. A GS ski works best for me as I'm looking for rebound how the ski comes back to the fall line from the apex of the turn. How the skis hit a mogul is it riding smoothly over the mogul or does it talk back when you hit the mogul by straighting up the skier and throwing them out of position.

 

Bottom line the best way to learn the bumps would be the QCT or SVMM with a good short radius turn on the groomed brought to the moguls now all the skier has to do is absorb & extend to keep the skis on the snow so the skier can turn them like on the groomed run. Now the skier can look for the best place to make these QCT in the mogul field. That would be on the top or the big white spot where the good snow is. The big smooth white spot on the mogul is the top or backside of the mogul.

 

We swear by the program of 3 years to being a better skier and skiing any condition or run the skier wants to.


Edited by cvj - 9/3/11 at 8:38am
post #263 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post




Yes there is a race were the best mogul skiers compete with the best racers on Bald MT. It is called the Lane Parrish Memorial Super G & Mogul Competition.

 

Believe it or not the only winner of both the Super G & Moguls was a SVMM or QCT skier who was a mogul skier 1st & THEN  A SKIER 2ND  WHO SKI SKI ANYTHING.. If you want to get chicked come out next spring for the event. She is consistently in the top 10 in local racing against the guys and beats the lady race coaches but is a SVSEF Mogul Coach. So yes this turn works in all phases of skiing........

 

All the talk of COM is off base. If I go to a race, mogul, half pipe. or any ski event I can pick out who will win by who is diving for the fall line with there body 1st racing there skis to the bottom.

 

They are going to beat there skis down the mt. this is leading with your COM.

 

Okay lets think about today's SL skiers to me they are making SL turns that look like small GS arcs. When watching the best SL skiers you see the skis near the fall line & already the outside ski is bent & starting to carve. How they do this is 1st high edge angles, early pressure on the outside ski, & putting the pressure on the fore body of the ski. Look at the outside ski you can see the bottom of the skiers outside ski.

 

 

 

 


 



Bald MT!  WOW!  Cant argue with that! 

 

icon13.gif

 

Serioulsy, look at your own video.  Who is red pants?  That guy can ski.  Take lessons from him.  Note the performance he gets?  Note how he skis different to the poor kids with those forward pivot points.  Look at red pants, see the pivot under the foot, the resulting ski performance?  Also grey pants...he can ski too...from about 30 seconds, notice his ankle EXTEND into the top of the turn?????????????  It is dog obvious.  Red pants again at about 50 seconds.  Same thing.

 

The kids/nails all have locked forward ankles.  They have no chance of ever carving a real turn, or not embarrasing themselves in a race course.  They are tail pushers!  This went out in the 80s.

 

Your videos show so much inconsistency that they are useless.  Show red red pants from 50 secs and grey at 30sec, no one would argue with you.  But suggesting the other stuff is anything other then mediocre is where you fall apart.

 

post #264 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post


I agree that he could probably ski anything & probably with more ease than most, myself included.

 

I am the one that said "one dimensional".  The reason I say that is more about the QCT than his personal all around skiing (I haven't really seen enough of it to judge).  The particular turn that the SVMM videos portrays seems very limiting as the main tool to ski the whole mountain, in many different conditions or on different types of skis.  For example, there is never any early or progressive edge & pressure in the turns, a tactic I have found useful in many situations & that I am often working on.

 

Hopefully someone else can expand on what I am trying to say.  I hate writing about this stuff on the internet & have found that I am not very good at it.  I do enjoy reading about it though.

 

Thanks,

JF

 

 



The zipper line tech is what is one dimensional and does not really work anywhere even in the bumps. Oh unless they are on low angle runs that the bumper does not need to control speed on.

 


Edited by cvj - 9/3/11 at 8:48am
post #265 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetonpwdrjunkie View Post

Pretty typical mogul thread on Epic.  Nail gets on and endlessly repeats his dogmatic drivel.  Others point out that the videos and text don't match up.  Nail continues to repeat himself misusing terminology that he doesn't understand.  The same videos get reposted.....  They still don't show what Nail says they do.....  Because.....  They are the same videos we have already seen, that didn't show it before.  The CSIA videos show skiers who are way superior to any in the SVMM videos but Nail insists they aren't doing it right.  Early shovel pressure high in the C....  Sounds great....  Did you read that somewhere Nail?  I don't see it in your skiing.  Keep repeating it and it must become true, or at least you will continue to believe it to be true.  Natural terrain you say?  I have enjoyed skiing SV in the past, but didn't find it be a great area for natural terrain.  It's certainly no JHMR, Snowbird, Squaw, or Whistler.  There have been some great skiers who have come out of SV and who currently live there.  No doubt about that, but SV is about the last place I would go to spend a winter free skiing on "natural terrain".

 

I'd bet that Nail has far more posts in this thread than Adamadam, Skidude72, UncleLouie, and myself combined.  Keep it up.  Winter is coming soon and the person who posts the most must be right.

 

Jackson hole is the best but for my money I'll take SV for more turns for your money with no chasing around for turns get off the chair and ski that pitch for 3300 vertical with no lift lines.
 

 

post #266 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Pssssst....Nails....Nails...

 

Over here mate,

 

 

Here is two tips for you:

 

1: Your COM is around your belly button...not center of chest.

2: Ruts go down, bumps go up.  If the tips/skier goes "up" we say he hit a "bump".  If the skier was just avoiding the bumps, the skis would never go "up.  

 

 

 

 

 




COM is from the chest & hips when skiing. LEAD WITH THE UPPER BODY.

 

2 things that go wrong with my skiing are, 1 pole plant not reaching far enough to the fore-body of the ski to help with moving COM back to the front of the ski, & not having enough downhill ski pressure.

 

Today a lot of moguls are made sup triennial not made by skiers who turn all over the run.

post #267 of 419
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post






COM is from the chest & hips when skiing. LEAD WITH THE UPPER BODY.

 

2 things that go wrong with my skiing are, 1 pole plant not reaching far enough to the fore-body of the ski to help with moving COM back to the front of the ski, & not having enough downhill ski pressure.

 

Today a lot of moguls are made sup triennial not made by skiers who turn all over the run.


No.

 

Your COM is your COM.  It dont matter if you are skiing, walking, watching TV or gardening.  It is an actual point.  It is not arbitratry or a matter of "opinion".

 

Here is Wiki: 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_mass

 

You can easily find other explanations if you look.
 

 

post #268 of 419

Has anyone in this thread discussed the differences between a short carved turn, a short radius turn & what we used to & still do call a short swing turn?

 

Thanks,

JF

post #269 of 419

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

Has anyone in this thread discussed the differences between a short carved turn, a short radius turn & what we used to & still do call a short swing turn?



Not in a single post.

post #270 of 419

No need for that....  Everything the SVMM people do is completely original.  Not another skier on the planet can a perform QCT or ski the technical line, unless they learned it from the folks who invented skiingwink.gif over on Baldy Mtn.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

Has anyone in this thread discussed the differences between a short carved turn, a short radius turn & what we used to & still do call a short swing turn?

 

Thanks,

JF



 

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