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Very good carver decent in bumps

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

First let me start by stating that I used this site primarily to pick out my last set of skis and I couldnt be happier with my Fischer Watea 94s. I also used this site to land a smokin deal on them from Philpug at Starthaus. Thanks again Phil, these skis are awesome. (That wasnt a review BTW) So now that the offseason is pretty much here, I find comfort in trying to find my next ski. I am in so cal and have been skiing the local resorts due to time constraints and I am lookin to upgrade my current groomer/hard snow ski from my old Olin comp DTSL (pretty outdated). I took the Fischers out a few times in those conditions and found them to be adequate but a little difficult to maintain speed control on the steeper pitches. I'm thinking about trying out Nastar next season. I also encounter bumps from time to time. I am 6 ft 170 lbs 38 yrs old and fairly athletic. I would consider myself high intermediate/low advanced and looking to improve. I was thinking of something in the high 60s low 70s waist width 15-16 radius. Here are my current ideas (a couple year old models mainly for budgetary reasons):

 

Fischer Progressor 9 or Cool Heat

Dynastar Contact 10 or Cross Ti

Nordica Firearrow 74

Kastle RX 12 (summer sale maybe or is sale and Kastle an oxymoron)

Hart Phoenix

K2 Apache Crossfire

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks very much.

 

 

 

post #2 of 25

I really like the fischer progressor 8 as a carver which is also good in the bumps, if you want something cheaper try find a pair of rx-8's


 

post #3 of 25

Didn't even see the Progressor 9 on ur list. Another good ski, similar to the 8,but stiffer.

post #4 of 25

Replace Progressor with WC.  Just my 2 cents.

post #5 of 25

Of the skis you list-the two dynastars, Hart Phoenix, and the K2 Crossfire fit the bill as good carvers, solid in bumps (with the Dynastar Cross Ti  and Hart Phoenix as a very good carvers). 

 

The Fischer P-9 is a burly ski (IMHO) and pretty rough in bumps.  Doable by a good skier, of course, but not Ideal.  I've never skied the WC fischers.

 

I'd want something a little softer tip and tail.  I've skied the Hart Pulse-which is wider (77mm waist) but has a shorter radius and carves nicely and is an excellent bump ski (put a vist plate on it and it steps up the carving significantly).     I really like the Cross Ti as well.

 

I haven't skied the FA 74-but I did try a Fire Arrow 80-stiff, powerful, turny wider carver.  Probably a handful in bumps as well.

 

Anyway, good carver AND bump performance, for me, would involve going with a ski that is a little softer in the tip and tail that a typical front-side ripper.

 

 

post #6 of 25

i've owned and skiied both the contact 10 and its successor, the contact cross ti.  First, of the two, get the contact cross, i find i preferred its wood core (more damp, but a little less lively) to the not wood core of the contact 10.  Second, i'll admit i cannot compare the ski to the others on your list as i do not own them and haven't skiied them either.  For where you are at and what you want the ski for you, in my experience you cannot go wrong with the cross ti.  And, from my own experience, its my opinion you may be better off on a good carver without metal in it at this point in your skiing.  Finally, if you'd like to learn more about the pair i'm considering getting rid feel free to send a message.  There is also a hart phoenix available in the gear swap i believe.  Enjoy whichever ski you choose. 

post #7 of 25

Keep in mind that a ski for Nastar is unlikely to shine in bumps, and vice-versa. ^^^^ speaks the truth about Contacts, best of the bunch for bumps, variable snow, different turn styles and shapes. And super fun. OTOH, I'd take a Progressor for Nastar style turns and grip. The Kastle will be the best of these by far in terms of speed limit, refinement, potential, but also the most $$, and the most demanding. Not impressed with the rest on your list for what you want. One you don't mention, the Blizzard Supersonic, might be a nice compromise, can handle speed, excellent grip for a lighter skier, dances through bumps, good ski on which to perfect your carving. 

post #8 of 25

 

Quote:
Keep in mind that a ski for Nastar is unlikely to shine in bumps, and vice-versa. ^^^^ speaks the truth about Contacts, best of the bunch for bumps, variable snow, different turn styles and shapes. And super fun. OTOH, I'd take a Progressor for Nastar style turns and grip.

 

This.

 

The Progressor 8+ or 10+ might be a bit more bump-friendly.  The 9+ is supposed to be the stiffest of the bunch -- the 10+ has (I think) carbon fiber rather than metal, or maybe it's a layer of metal and one of carbon while the 9+ is all metal.  I can handle the 9+ in bumps, but I'm a big guy and don't have a problem bending them.

 

The Contacts are really versatile and extremely responsive.  I still teach on those.

 

I've heard good things about the FireArrow, but haven't demoed them -- they didn't have a long demo pair at the mountain's ski shop this year.

 

If you want great NASTAR times you might want to look at the 'race' models from Dynastar or Fischer.  But those will be significantly less pleasant in the bumps.

post #9 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matthias99 View Post

 

If you want great NASTAR times you might want to look at the 'race' models from Dynastar or Fischer.  But those will be significantly less pleasant in the bumps.


+1.  In the bumps you want a ski that is light and lively.  You want a ski that can quickly be disengaged and tossed in a different direction easily.  That is pretty much the opposite of what you want carving railroad tracks or skiing GS gates.  There you want a ski that stays locked when engaged until the turn has been completed.

 

post #10 of 25

I have a pair of Fischer Progressor 8+ and continue to amazed at their versatility.  Have about 40 days on them now and have skied them in everything from boilerplate, to 10 inches of powder to spring corn and slush.  Great carver, very good in bumps and surprisingly good in the soft stuff.  I find less and less reasons to pull the Dynastar Legend 8000s out of the ski bag.  Never skied the Progressor 9+ but everything I've heard says the 8+ is a better fit for you.

post #11 of 25

Agreen, the Hart Phoenix has my strong vote. I have been on these all winter and have very impressed with the versatilty of this ski. It is 116/66/101, made by Blossom in Italy which makes the VIST line which is top quality. I used the Phoenix last week at the Gathering. It ripped the groomers, was remarkably stable in wind-blown crud and pretty nimble in the bumps for a 16.5 meter ski. I also skied it in February at Vail in powder up to 5" and it was a hoot. I ski it in a 174cm with a VIST TT plate which makes the ski even more stable, and protects against boot-out. Liam mentioned the Hart Pulse. I have that too in 180cm, but have not yet figured that ski out. Still moving the bindings around to find the sweet spot. The Phoenix is love at first ski ski. When I skied with Bob Peters last week (ultimate ski guru) he was on a pair of Hart SL's. He thought the Phoenix was one of the best citizen racers out there. And you know that Hart's strong suit is bump skis. More than a little has rubbed off on the Phoenix. Should mention that these replaced my Blizzard Supersonics in 167cm. The Harts, in 174cm, are much more stable and secure, though perhaps not so quick edge to edge (perhaps because of the extra length).

David

post #12 of 25

A carving ski is not the best tool for the bumps. A narrow carving ski will be quicker edge to edge (think leverage) then a wider one which would make it better suited for bumps but is far from the best tool. I think all mountain skis & carving skis with lots of side cut are over rated in how well  they ski the bumps. I like a 74mm tail or narrower in the bumps & old straight skis with a soft shovel with newer bindings put on is for more practical in the bumps (for someone on a budget) but not as practical for Nastar. The reviews can say what ever they want but when they say a ski "skis well in the bumps & is good @ carving & would be good @ Nastar" they are wrong.

post #13 of 25

I agree, but the OP asked for a hard snow/groomer ski that will also be good in the bumps and maybe Nastar.  Doesn't sound like an old school bump ski to me.

Originally Posted by Powder Jet View Post

A carving ski is not the best tool for the bumps.

post #14 of 25
Thread Starter 

Thanks for all the info, I appreciate it. I am looking for a carver first and foremost that can take me to the next level with my turns on faster/harder conditions. I am thinking the Nastar thing to possibly help in that regard. Maybe partake in a race camp if offered. I figure bumps will just take more practice/lessons but I dont want to shy away from them when they present themselves and I dont want something so stiff (cheaters) that they make them even more difficult then they already are. I actually forgot to mention the Supersonic and RX 8 on my original post but was thinking about those as well. The truth of the matter is I probably wouldnt go wrong with many of the listed skis as they all would be a significant upgrade and I havent had the chance to demo any of these  skis so I wouldnt know the difference. With that said, I want to make an informed decision and not get into something that would hinder my progress. Thanks again, and I will take all these opinions to Hart.

post #15 of 25

not sure if you've checked, but the only place for Nastar in SoCal is MtHigh, and they set up a course 3 times this yr, once in Jan, Feb and Mar...

not much reason to buy something specifically oriented to a full race calendar...

you can prolly get a decent used GS ski on ebay and use that

 

... there are no bumps on Mt HIgh, no bumps in all of SoCal, this is the turf of boarders, hence all bumps are ground to pancake flat surface

'terrain' is park stuff...

straights are a fun diversion out there...

 

maybe get some ballet skis...

post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 

moreoutdoor, thanks for the reply. I do get to mammoth 1-2x/yr and tahoe 0-1x/yr and so I'm thinkin on the days when I'm there and they havent had snow in awhile I could use one of the above mentioned skis. also to be used on the local resorts/nastar. i agree I havent encountered any real bumps at mt high or baldy (and I sure feel outnumbered) but can definitely find some up north. i am not really into straights or especially ballet. thnks.

post #17 of 25

Quote:

Originally Posted by agreen View Post

moreoutdoor, thanks for the reply. I do get to mammoth 1-2x/yr and tahoe 0-1x/yr and so I'm thinkin on the days when I'm there and they havent had snow in awhile I could use one of the above mentioned skis. also to be used on the local resorts/nastar. i agree I havent encountered any real bumps at mt high or baldy (and I sure feel outnumbered) but can definitely find some up north. i am not really into straights or especially ballet. thnks.

 

If I could only do one or 2 short trips to the Sierras, a season, aside from considering sewercide eek.gif, I prolly wouldn;t even pass a thought about stayin on the flats and swishin nastar gates....

but you're right, with the trend to wider, there's prolly a bunch of nice mid to high 70's skis which will be had for minimal dosh. If the Fischer Cool Heats have any of the 'heat' my Cold Heats generate, they'll be a rockin ski on most everything, but the Cold Heats are bears in the bumps. The different Nordicas I've ridden are tenacious on the hard and my HR Burner Pros (178) rock in the bumps - just the right flex, but still carvin machines. At 84 waist with a solid tail and not much taper, They're gonna be my go-to ski when conditions are hard and thin.

 

post #18 of 25
very good carvers, decent in bumps: fischer progressor 10 and dynastar contact groove. the fischer is a better bet for nastar because of the greater turn radius.
post #19 of 25

+1 for the hart Phoenix's ability in the bumps.  The hart Phi-Nomenal is the woman's model of the Phoenix and it was used by some of Team USA's comp level mogul skiers this past season.  I ski the hart F17 Classic which is a comp level mogul ski, but has slightly larger shovels than anything else on the market.  I do notice a lot of tip wear due to the shovels hitting each other occasionally, but only while running zippers.  I would expect even more chipping from the much larger shoveled Phoenix, but also would dominate the hardpack where my F17s merely perform well, not great.

 

Aside from the ski itself, the other issue is that race skis and carvers like plates...bumpers prefer flat mount.

 

Good luck.  As for the Pulse... was told by a guy holding his 2 skis in 3 pieces to think really hard before taking them into the bumps with any kind of gusto.   

post #20 of 25

I second the recommendation for the Blizzard Supersonics, if you can find a pair. They are the best carving ski I have owned and are decent in the bumps. I have yet to find a speed limit, even on my 167s (or thereabouts, I get the length confused with my similarly sized Vokl 6 Stars). Come to think of it, if you can find a used pair of 6 Stars in decent shape, those would be a cost effective option. Since getting the Supersonics, my 6 stars got demoted to rock ski status, but they still are very good. While their hard snow performance is a touch less than the Supersonics, their crud performance is better. They have less of a tendency to get tossed around in the heavy chopped up crud we get in CA.

post #21 of 25

I third the Supersonics.  Not designed for bumps, but absloutely fine in bumps.  A strong, quick carving ski with some versatility.  Not quite as stiff as a pure race ski, so more bump and crud compatible.

post #22 of 25
Thread Starter 

OK, thanks for all the replies. I think I narrowed it down to Fischer P8, Dynastar contact cross ti, Blizzard supersonic, and hart phoenix. I will spend the off-season looking for a good deal on one of these. Moreoutdoor brings up a very debateable topic: if you can only ski a small mtn with below average snow conditions (man-made/hard packed)... is it worth the hassle? To me it is but I'm still improving proper technique and tinkering with things. To someone much more skilled than I it may not be.  I hate to change the topic but mo brought it up.

post #23 of 25

don;t get me wrong, I'm not dissin small mtns/hills, nor suggesting that skiing them is not worthwhile.

this type of skiing, different from a big resort mtn offers the 'opportunity' to focus on the details of ski technique and improvement.

AND - I'll catch some crap for this - Skiers who ski the Ice Coast harder hills can and do become 'sturdier' skiers than those who spend all their time on western resort groomers.

Ice Coasters just have to adapt to the idea that you can ski 'snow' as opposed to perennial hardpack (this year being the exception back there).

 

I spent quite a bit of time in the SoCal hills these 2 yrs, with the intent to work on specific technique - the discipline to do this with my time at Mammoth would have been very hard to do (impossible).

So skiin the SOCal areas was fun and very productive.

And gettin a set or two of skis you can work at these places is a good idea. What I meant was I wouldn;t be too particular as to brand as long as the model range covers the 'variable' snow down here - so a decent carver is a good call - especially if you don't mind comin home with raked bases and burred edges. I've done a ton of ptex-ing and hrs of filing these 2 yrs. But no matter, tuning gets you to know more about your skis.

do bump your thread again next season, when you get to try what you buy - I'm very interested to hear about what you go with and how it comes together.

post #24 of 25
Thread Starter 

Wow, I totally misunderstood your previous post. I guess that happens on these forums. Thanks for clarifying. I will definitely post an update next season. As a side note, have you had a chance to ski some of the backcountry terrain at Mt Baldy? I have read it is quite nice and challenging. 45 deg narrow chutes and also steep open bowls. It is supposedly easy to hike to but very difficult to hike out of. Seems like people head up there in the spring time for some corn.

post #25 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by agreen View Post

... As a side note, have you had a chance to ski some of the backcountry terrain at Mt Baldy? I have read it is quite nice and challenging. 45 deg narrow chutes and also steep open bowls. It is supposedly easy to hike to but very difficult to hike out of. Seems like people head up there in the spring time for some corn.


haven't gone out of bounds there, don;t know enough about the area... would be stupid...

I did ski almost all the faces within bounds and there's plenty of steepish, open tree faces.

But the area does face south, so it loses snow rapidly on many faces.

I got up there the day after the Christmas dump and worked all the faces inbounds - nice!

go to the webcam,

http://www.mtbaldy.com/mtbaldy/002/index.php and hit the webcam button

you'll see how the coverage varies as you move across - some areas are deep others show large bare patches

left side, out of view is a huge bowl face which is great fun, steep and trees, but needs a lot of fresh to cover and becomes unskiable quickly when the sun comes out.

Great ski terrain for 1200 verticle, very '60's equipment and conditions, staff needs better training, I'm on the fence if I'm gonna pop for a season pass again next yr...

I like the Olde Style atmosphere... boarders get to 'rough it', grooming is basic. But iff'n you want to ski 'hardpack', this place packs it hard...

The groomer brings up some decent size rocks so you have the full experience rolleyes.gif

Mt High has better snow, cause it's on the north face... but flatter.

 

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