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Helmets REQUIRED NJ as of 4/8/11

post #1 of 278
Thread Starter 

The legislation was signed into law and takes seven months from today.

 

If you are 18 or younger you must wear a helmet if you ski or board and use a lift.

 

The parent or supervising individual must pay a fine of $25 for the first or $100 for additional offenses.

 

Local LE (sworn law enforcement), will enforce the law.

 

No area will be responsible for compliance.

 

I have to go back and read some additional chapters because I think in many ways this is a "Doctor Feelgood" joke and  will tie up police, fire police, US Customs and ICE ... IRS agents and ... read my mind.

 

This was enacted I believe due to a parent that lost a kid at Mountain Creek and never quit lobbying ... like 10 years ago.

post #2 of 278
Thread Starter 

The legislation was signed into law and takes seven months from today.

 

If you are 18 or younger you must wear a helmet if you ski or board and use a lift.

 

The parent or supervising individual must pay a fine of $25 for the first or $100 for additional offenses.

 

Local LE (sworn law enforcement), will enforce the law.

 

No area will be responsible for compliance.

 

I have to go back and read some additional chapters because I think in many ways this is a "Doctor Feelgood" joke and  will tie up police, fire police, US Customs and ICE ... IRS agents and ... read my mind.

 

This was enacted I believe due to a parent that lost a kid at Mountain Creek and never quit lobbying ... like 10 years ago.

 

So, like my wife and I used to do the high school  "chaperone" (ski free bus trip) ... instructors ... trip leaders .... parents .. eek.gif

post #3 of 278

Makes lots of sense for the chair lift with those safety bars, but what's the point on the t-barrolleyes.gif

 

post #4 of 278

More crap from "our" legislators.....

 

No matter, I wasn't headed to NJ on my next destination ski trip anyway.....

post #5 of 278

Ah yes...US of A...Land of the Free!!!!

 

 

 

 

 

post #6 of 278



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skidude72 View Post

Ah yes...US of A...Land of the Free!!!!

 



and evidently, "home of the stupid", unable to make our own choices...   nonono2.gif

post #7 of 278
Thread Starter 

Only local LE can enforce this I was taking "liberty" but I note that:

 

- The operator is exempt .. not an instructor or coach

 

- The fine may seem small but it will go to municipal court where they tack on like $150 costs, $25 "victim fund" charges for each summons.

 

- This is a nuisance funding law.

 

- How many cops will be tied up and directed away from or devoted to this?

 

- I know my way around many NJ laws and this will manifest itself as a "overtime" mechanism for many.

 

If you go back and examine all of my posts on helmets, I am certainly in the "pro-helmet" camp.  Why did they just (I love this word), not empower patrol to pull tickets?  I know that answer and that would make the area operator the bad guy and is anti-business.

 

Question .. who is going to "drop the dime" on offenders?  The operator is not required to right?

 

 

post #8 of 278

Well, safety is safety....maybe they will actually get serious about it and ban other unsafe things.....like maybe guns or cigarettes, apparently they can kill people.th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #9 of 278

Not that there are many ski areas in NJ.  But, if Vernon Twp wants to raise some money all they will need to do is send an officer to Mouintain Creek and Hidden Valley and let the fund raising begin.  No different than the seat belt stops through out the state.

post #10 of 278
Thread Starter 

My point exactly and I think little old Hidden Valley is a "Membership" area as of late.

 

Mountain Creek is a zoo anyway.

 

When one state gets it .......... actually it will be good for business in PA and NY.

 

post #11 of 278

Totally agree with the law. You "I have the freedom to do what I want with my life" types keep my insurance and tax rates high. Rode a motorcycle for 30 years, same grousing about hemet laws back when they came out. (And, no don't want to start another helmet thread, just get off the fallacious assumption that you're the only one who pays for your concussion.) We'll all get too old to ski, and the next generation will wonder what the big deal was...

 

 

post #12 of 278
Thread Starter 

Beyond, I fully agree with you.

 

The victims in an auto crash where the person did not wear a belt or a  cycle accident where the person did not take full advantage of the protection available is passed to you and me through insurance or  Medicaid/Medicare in one way or another.

 

My issue is with what amounts to a "hold harmless" clause for the hill, burden on instructors as individuals, provisions for really no rational enforcement and the potential for abuse.

 

Many towns have "safety" regulations that are no more than sting "cash cows" and I have been witness to literal shake downs.  My sentiments are usually on the other side of the fence but I know the smell of ripe fish for sure and this stinks ... ripe for abuse.

 

I have worn a helmet since first purchase in like ... 1999 or so.

 

This was passed for two reasons ... Any publicity is good for these quack and corrupt legislators in New Jersey and to shut the doctor up who had a daughter killed a long time ago.

 

Any other state I would not doubt the intentions .... OK, New York is suspect too .. but here, it is all crooked or feelgood.

 

Let me give you an example of reality.  We have lots of laws and I got dumped into a particular segment and after issuing a damned good number of serious violations there was NEVER any action or fine .. not even a hearing or wrist slap.  I just got off the phone with a retired friend who headed a group .. same thing, a lot of intro press and in ten years not a single sanction.  But it kept a bunch of people employed on computers "monitoring the situation".  Gag me.

post #13 of 278

But it's 18 and under, right?  Probably doesn't affect anyone that will respond in this thread.  

post #14 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Lee View Post

But it's 18 and under, right?  Probably doesn't affect anyone that will respond in this thread.  



It effects us all in the long run Bob. It's called getting a toe hold on stupidity. Some other State or Resort will see this and say, "they did it". First it's under 18, then all.

 

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children, let them decide this one too.

 

 

post #15 of 278

Does your skull suddenly change at age 18 ?????

post #16 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post



 



and evidently, "home of the stupid", unable to make our own choices...   nonono2.gif


Who the cap fit, let them wear it.

 

post #17 of 278



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Totally agree with the law. You "I have the freedom to do what I want with my life" types keep my insurance and tax rates high. Rode a motorcycle for 30 years, same grousing about hemet laws back when they came out. (And, no don't want to start another helmet thread, just get off the fallacious assumption that you're the only one who pays for your concussion.) We'll all get too old to ski, and the next generation will wonder what the big deal was...

 

 



What's the big deal was about.....???

 

Having lost the right to chose what we wear? What we do? So you like the idea of others choosing for you? Not just satisfied with your own choice and must dictate that it is also the only correct one for others as well?

 

Then what?

 

No big deal?   I couldn't agree any less with your attitude   nonono2.gif

 

post #18 of 278

At Squaw, such a law is pretty much un-necessary (tourists not included).

post #19 of 278

That's why they built Squaw Valley in California and not in New Jersey. Mountain Creek clientele on that hill? Oh, the carnage!

post #20 of 278


.

post #21 of 278

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post

It effects us all in the long run Bob. It's called getting a toe hold on stupidity. Some other State or Resort will see this and say, "they did it". First it's under 18, then all.

 

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children, let them decide this one too.

 

I don't necessarily disagree with you but the previous posts were all "I" and "me" and I just thought it would be good to retain perspective.  
 

Yeah, I know, retain perspective in a helmet thread.  rolleyes.gif

 

post #22 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yuki View Post


No area will be responsible for compliance.

 

 

 

This was enacted I believe due to a parent that lost a kid at Mountain Creek and never quit lobbying ... like 10 years ago.


It was Hidden Valley, Mt Creek gets enough bad press. As far as the compliance, the first time some underage kid breaks his/her face in the terrain park Mommy/Daddy's lawyer will be going after the ski company and ticket agent that sold the lift ticket for not carding the kid.

 

You're correct about the feel good part Yuki, most people I observe are already wearing helmets.

 

post #23 of 278
Thread Starter 

Bill, sorry for the confusion.  I remember the original incident (fatality), and then the constant pressure by the parent (a doctor?).

 

My favorite hill up there was "Sno Bowl at Milton" ... I like quiet places and except for the terrain I actually liked Hidden Valley.  MC was too busy, busy.

 

What happened to Vlad from MC?

 

Let's not forget that NJ has one other area.  confused.gif

 

I had to check but Campgaw still has a web site anyway but they were open and shut and then again and ... frown.gif

post #24 of 278

Vlad is now SSD at a small hill in Transylvania, or not Or he might be at Squaw. th_dunno-1[1].gif

 

Campgaw is still open, it's a county park I think. Sno Bowl and Craigmeur are both owned by the Morris County Park Commission, neither are open for skiing. Hidden Valley is barely hanging in there as a private club. Mt Creek is no longer owned by Intrawest. It is now part of the Crystal Springs Resort and the ugly tents are going away as soon as they finish the new lodge which is now under construction. And that's all we got left.

 

Sorry for the hijack.  Resume helmet discussion.............biggrin.gif

 

post #25 of 278

So will there be a cop on the hill stopping all short people without helmets, some of whom may be over 18? Will a 6' 2" 14 year old sans helmet get a pass? Because with hat goggles and whatever, it's hard to tell how old someone is. They'd have to stop everyone without a helmet to check IDs. That type of hassle will make it real easy to expand the law to everyone.

 

Good thing I wasn't planning on skiing in NJ during this lifetime.

post #26 of 278
Thread Starter 

One time I was actually asked to remove my helmet to prove I was who I was.  Which is ...  popcorn.gif

 

I had a group of Orthodox Jewish students, very Orthodox with the boys (young men), long black coats and such.  I looked up to see an old fellow running towards us.  The old Rabbi made me take off my helmet to show him that indeed my hair was white since males can only be instructed by older males.

 

He wasn't a moyle but the tip was big.  ROTF.gif ..

 

and it was, he was quite generous for taking good care.

post #27 of 278

...And I thought Massachusetts was the world's worst Nanny State.

post #28 of 278

The helmet law might reduce insurance costs for the ski resorts ? Cheaper opperating costs for the ski hill Iam for it.

 

post #29 of 278
Thread Starter 

Start adding it up if it is enforced.

 

Bill I can almost guarantee that a Bergen County Sheriff will have one officer on duty (at Campgaw), since it is a county area.  Give it into the second year.

 

Sno over in Scranton used to have 5 or 6 officers on each weekend just to watch the bar.  Not kidding and I was pissed because someone tried to destroy a locked ski rack to get to my skis like 50' away while they were shooting the breeze ... not drinking on duty but at the bar.

 

Morrison makes a point also, what would they do to make young people prove their age?  I can see lift lines being stopped while some struggle for ID or do you check in the ticket line.

 

Actually ..... that, is the remedy!  Thanks Morrison.   For every discounted kiddie ticket they sell ... especially because they like to act 16 to get the discount and yeah my kid was doing it and would never carry an ID at the area .. hmmmmmmm?

post #30 of 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rossi Smash View Post





It effects us all in the long run Bob. It's called getting a toe hold on stupidity. Some other State or Resort will see this and say, "they did it". First it's under 18, then all.

 

Parents are responsible for the actions of their children, let them decide this one too.

 

 

I don't know that too many ski states are going to use following NJ's lead as an example. Maybe if it was Colorado, California, Vermont, Utah, etc.--but NJ? I doubt it. If other states do it, it's because they decided to, not because NJ got the ball rolling.

 

AS for:

 

- How many cops will be tied up and directed away from or devoted to this?"

 

since there are only 2 or 3 resorts and they're in pretty rural areas, I don't see it affecting law enforcement too badly.
 

 

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