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Let's talk DIRTy - Page 2

post #31 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by justanotherskipro View Post

Easy Crud, PM her with that stuff.

 

 

Done.  haha

 

This should be a good presentation.  Although every turn is different, we absorb information as we ski. Tactile info like feelings from poles, skis, feet, differences in the snow on the east vs. west aspect, temp diffs as we ski down the mountain and many other sensations are taken in as we go and thus help determine our DIRT and eventually tempo and flow.
 

 

post #32 of 40
Thread Starter 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by michaelA View Post



This is similar to what I was trying to say from a different perspective. I think any rhythm seen in a set of turns is an outcome of well-applied DIRT, not an input of any kind


 

 

Originally Posted by LitterBug 

[about rhythm] ... Can you teach it? No. But you can do what you do--teach the structure and then let the student find her own rhythm in her deviations from the pattern.

Huh? the recurring pattern itself is a rhythm. If we're standing a hundred yards above a tree island and I assign you the task of making ten round, rhythmic turns down to the tree island. I've just defined the rhythm of those turns. I didn't tell you anything about the DIRT you would need to accomplish that task. Nor is that specific rhythm relegated to an outcome. It's an objective and as such is very much an input in our decision making process. So I don't buy the idea that we can't and don't teach rhythm. We do it every time we link turns during a demo.

post #33 of 40
JASP, my post was in response to a discussion of whether you can teach a student how to find their own skiing rhythm. Sorry if that wasn't clear, or if I misinterpreted those particular posts.

Of course you can teach rhythm, model rhythm, or assign a particular rhythm as an objective. That's the task I was assigned and that I continued to set for myself through years of studying and playing classical music and mimicking Hubert Laws and John Coltrane solos. My point was that I found my music only after carefully and meticulously learning and playing a lot of other people's of music.
post #34 of 40

JASP Have you thought about lateral learning...from adaptive? "Learn to ski as if you were blind".  The adaptive people know how to do this safely. Maybe less liability there.

 

Isn't rhythm beautiful when there's flow in it? Is it rhythm that we find hard to teach or is it effortless flowing?

 

 

post #35 of 40
Thread Starter 

Litterbug, Well said. Can I lead someone there by varying it in my demos, yup. That's exctly why I feel it's so important. It's one of many things I do in an effeort to lead my students to epiphanies. That's when I've done my job. It's also the exciting thing about ski teaching.

 

Snownat, Lateral learning would be exploring a maneuver in different situations. (Changing the terrain but not increasing the steepness, or adding bumps, etc). As far as teaching a blind skier verses a sighted but blindfolded skier, well that's two very different discussions. The latter greatly increases the student's chance for injury.

post #36 of 40
What would be like wearing a blindfold without being a blindfold? I think anything that breaks continuity with the habitual experience, because once we see an activity one way we are strongly inclined to continue approaching it the same way forever. I think that when you're rattled there's a little bit of re-wiring going on in the brain. Can you 'rattle' a student without scaring them? Hmm.
post #37 of 40
Thread Starter 

A white out forces us to rely on something other than sight. Rhythm and muscle memory allow us to perform turns without actually seeing the slope. The mindset isn't quite as offensive but that doesn't mean it's defensive either. Cautious execution might sound like a contradictory term for this but if you think about it, isn't that what we asking of our students when they try a maneuver, or movement for the first few times. Their emotional state during this time is the key. Do they trust you and their ability to perform? Or do they exhibit a timidity until they get accustomed to the new move. Being aware of that emotional state and pacing the practice appropriately is often the key to success.

post #38 of 40
Quote:
Originally Posted by litterbug View Post

What would be like wearing a blindfold without being a blindfold? I think anything that breaks continuity with the habitual experience, because once we see an activity one way we are strongly inclined to continue approaching it the same way forever. I think that when you're rattled there's a little bit of re-wiring going on in the brain. Can you 'rattle' a student without scaring them? Hmm.


Here's a suggestion.  Try skiing with the bottom half of your goggles taped up.  You'll only be able to look out through the top half, so you won't be able to see your ski tips.  I use an old pair of goggles with black duct tape permanently applied to the outside for this.  

 

Skiing with these goggles on can be a mind-blower.  It was for me, since I rely so much on looking pretty close in front of me as I ski.  I become intensely aware of my skis through the sense of touch when I can't see them.  YMMV.


Edited by LiquidFeet - 4/14/11 at 4:08am
post #39 of 40
brilliant!
post #40 of 40
Thread Starter 

Too bad that wouldn't work in a clinic. I need to be much more conservative when designing group activities. The extra risk of even a partial blindfold just wouldn't sit well with SAM. To be fair if something happened where the coach got injured while using those goggles there would be a lot of questions about why we used them in the first place. My rule of thumb is if I have to ask if I should be doing something, the answer is no if my actions could be questioned in court. That's why I think the whiteout story is so useful. Most of us remember a vertigo moment and how that for that run we changed our skiing style and affective state. Connecting to that idea is IMO enough of a reminder about how conservtive and tenative a skier can get when trying new things. After a while we trust ourselves and we get less tenative but during that initial learning phase we're all a bit tenative. Getting our coaches to be sensitive to that is what I'm hoping they take away from that clinic.

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