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Side edge getting duller or changing?

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

I was wondering if someone has a side edge of let's say 2 degrees and does not tune them for a long while.  I know that they would become dull, but would the side edge change to a 1 degrees or even 0?  I was told that if a ski is a 3 degrees side edge, then they need to be tuned often to keep that 3 degrees, so it infers that the edge angles changes? 

post #2 of 11

It is a wives tale that a 3 dulls quicker then a 1 or 2. It just is not the case. And if it does. I'll take a slightly dull 3 over a sharp 2 anyday!

 I have measured many the side edge of many skis after skiing on them many times and a 3 does not become a 2 or a 1 from skiing on it.

 

But, with that said, your base edge bevel does increase with skiing. The constant abrasion of the snow and ice on the base edge rubs steel edge material away and increases the base bevel.


Edited by Atomicman - 4/4/11 at 7:30pm
post #3 of 11

The edge angle isn't changing per se, but the edge is getting progressively rounder the more it is skied on (without being re-sharpened that is).

 

Although some people with considerable experience have not found that edge angles of 3 degrees wear more quickly than 2 degrees or less, others with equivalent experience have evidence that in fact a 3 degree edge can wear more quickly, and noticeably so.   Some retailers and industry reps who have to maintain fleets of skis certainly keep this in mind, because they know the overall usable life of a ski will be influenced by the tuning configuration.

 

At what point does the dull 3 degree becomes less effective than a dull 2 degree edge?  That's an interesting, but different question.  Since I no longer have any skis with 2 degree edge angles, I won't be able to test that one.

post #4 of 11
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

It is a wives tale that a 3 dulls quicker then a 1 or 2. It just is not the case. And if it does. I'll take a slightly dull 3 over a sharp 2 anyday!

 I have measured many the side edge of many skis after skiing on them many times and a 3 does not become a 2 or a 1 from skiing on it.

 

But, with that said, your base edge bevel does increase with skiing. The constant abrasion of the snow and ice on the base edge rubs steel edge material away and increases the base bevel.



What you mentioned about the base edge bevel is very informative.  I just wonder how much skiing you would have to do to get a change.

 

post #5 of 11

I spoke with Graham Lonetto at Edgewise in Stowe in the last 2 weeks about how quickly the base bevel changes. His answer is that it varies from ski to ski. I took in 2 skis with almost exactly equal days since the last grind (I literally alternate them for training) and exactly the same maintenance procedures. A Dynastar slalom was still fine after a full season. An Elan GS has degraded. Both had been set by Edgewise to .5 and maintained with the occasional diamond moonflex filing to fix burrs, dings, etc. using the SVST base bevel tool. Graham said his skis, set to .25 often need to be redone after 3 or 4 days skiing.

post #6 of 11
Thread Starter 

That is interesting.  I did not do much to mine for 3 seasons(80 ski days) until I had them ground.  I wonder now what bevel they were before they were ground.

post #7 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnneL View Post

What you mentioned about the base edge bevel is very informative.  I just wonder how much skiing you would have to do to get a change.

 



Anne,

This is kind of like asking how long a knife will holds it's edge.  The standard answer is - "Depends."  Terrain, snow, skier ability, skier weight, grooming (or not), skidding, carving etc.  Just like a knife, what you do with the edge will determine how long the edge lasts.

 

What I focus on instead of "how long will they last" is what do I do to make sure each day they are the same.

 

Whether they need it or not, I have them ground and edges set for the beginning of the year and after almost every use, I touch them up with diamond moonflex stones.  Once you get good at it, it only takes a few minutes.  This also makes it so each and every time I go ski, my skis are always sharp and have fresh wax.  The longest I'll go is two days but my goal is to touch up and wax after every use.

 

Ken

 

P.S.  Welcome aboard!

post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 

I actually meant to say that I did not touch much my base bevel for 3 years, not the edge bevel.  But I had the shop look at them once a year because I do not have the base bevel tool.  I do all of the other tuning/waxing otherwise and like L&AirC I wax every day I go ski.  Thanks for the welcome!

post #9 of 11

Contrary to others here apparantly. I never touch my base edge "EVER", between stone grinds. All maintenance is done on the side edge only. Diamond stoning the base edge is a useless excercise that only over time additionally increasesand makes more of a mess the the base bevel. Trying to remove dings or burrs from the base edge side generally causes more damage then if it was left alone and simply worked on from the side edge.

 

Only base edge work done between,  is removing the hanging burr formed from  working on the side edge. But I use a polishing Translucent Arkansas Stone or Surgical stone only.

 

 

post #10 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Contrary to others here apparantly. I never touch my base edge "EVER", between stone grinds. All maintenance is done on the side edge only. Diamond stoning the base edge is a useless excercise that only over time additionally increasesand makes more of a mess the the base bevel. Trying to remove dings or burrs from the base edge side generally causes more damage then if it was left alone and simply worked on from the side edge.

 

Only base edge work done between,  is removing the hanging burr formed from  working on the side edge. But I use a polishing Translucent Arkansas Stone or Surgical stone only.

 

 


I didn't mean to imply this if you're referring to me.  My daily maintenance is side edge and not the base edge.  I do knock down dings to the bases but for the most part, I leave the base edge alone and agree they should be left alone.

 

I know how I wrote it would lead you to that conclusion but I have "medicine head" from the post surgery oxycontin and lack of a good night's sleep.

 

Ken

 

 

post #11 of 11

I do occasionally work on my base bevels with diamond files. At the end of a year's worth of skiing one pair still had the .5 base bevel and one pair did not. Last year, the 1 pair I brought in still had a .5 base bevel. So it is possible to maintain a base bevel without  ruining it if one works carefully and uses the appropriate tools.

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