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all mountain race ski? - Page 3

post #61 of 79
Quote:

Originally Posted by chemist View Post

 

Just curious: what do you think my reaction would be to the Blizzard Bushwacker or Bodacious, which some rave about as carving skis (I suspect what they mean by a good ski on the hardpack and what I mean are two different things, though)?   


Disclaimer: I have not tried these skis. However, if you were to try these and like them, I suspect it would throw the premise of this entire thread - that 80+ or even 90+ mm waisted skis are never going to be precise, quick, and grippy enough for you - out the window. At that point you'd really have to start giving some comparable skis a fair trial. So yes, I'm guessing that when others say Bushwackers are great carvers, they mean great carvers for an 88mm ski. (And PLEASE let's do Chemist the courtesy of not letting this degenerate into another one of those "wide skis can carve" vs. "wide skis can't carve" threads.)

 

As for Atomicman's opinions, they sound very plausible to me. (Fastest guy I race with is on those D2 cheater GS skis and loves them.) However, don't forget his handle is "Atomicman," so a certain bias has to be accounted for.  rolleyes.gif

 

post #62 of 79

as soon as i read your post, i thought, Stockli and Fischer.  after i read further, i wasn't alone.  since you're on 2000 skis, how about a pair of 2003-3004 Fischer rx8's.  the first two years were awesome.  also, Stockli Laser Pro are very good.  boy, i'm glad not to be the only one on these skis lately.

post #63 of 79

Atomicman is correct at least in my opinion. actually Non FIS D2 SL skis will be even more suitable I think, since they are wider at: 124-67-109  12m,

compared to 114-70-98   17.8m in 174 D2 GS...

Unless the OP ski on much steeper terrain..

post #64 of 79

I demoed Rossi's FIS SL ski (165cm) and found it to be very easy to ski on the course and on groomers. I'm 6'1" 200. I wouldn't want to ski them off-piste, I think. Maybe it's my height and the fact that (until this year) I was still skiing on Salomon Equipe 1Ss from the 90s, but the shortness of the ski is unnerving when I think about anything but smooth groomers.

 

You guys don't find cheater GS skis to be too stiff in powder/crud? I've never tried a pair but if they're anything close to my GS12s I wouldn't want any part of that.

 

Oh, I also tried the RC4 SuperRace SC. Meh. I didn't find them lively enough but maybe I'm just too fat for them.


Edited by ohoen - 4/17/11 at 10:11am
post #65 of 79

I will add my two cents.  Take into account I coach roughly 25 kids and run a tuning business out of my shop and tune roughly 50+ race skis a week.  My stats are 6'4" and 250lbs.  We are volkl and fischer sponsored so I do have some bias.  First, I tell everyone to buy a race stock ski, especially if you live in the east.  We are usually faced with groomed manufactured snow that sets up like concrete.  Second, unless you are a running true FIS GS courses, an FIS gs ski is going to be too much for you.  Unless you can let them run, you will be dragging them everywhere.  So where does that leave you, the "cheater" ski and the SL ski.  I personally, 99% of the time ski a 165 volkl racetiger SL with marker comp 20 or 30 bindings with piston plates.  To me, they are are stiff enough to lay them on edge to bite, but wide enough in the tip to float on top of the junk.  If you are an accomplished skier, but do not like the responsiveness of the FIS ski, there is the speedwall ski (white base on the tip) that are a little softer, thus a little more forgiving.  The same holds true with the fischer WC hole skis.  The FIS GS ski is not something I would put someone on unless they are running full length GS courses.  The WC SL hole ski is a great all mountain ski.  If they are too much, fischer has had good luck with the flowflex and power rail ski.  But like mentioned, you have to try them all to get a feel.  Going to a demo day is not that much help as the skis are usually marginally tuned at best.  Any shop worth its salt should be able to provide you with a tuned ski to use for the day before you commit to buying.

 

 

 

 

post #66 of 79


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by TuckerDH View Post

First, I tell everyone to buy a race stock ski, especially if you live in the east.  We are usually faced with groomed manufactured snow that sets up like concrete.  Second, unless you are a running true FIS GS courses, an FIS gs ski is going to be too much for you.  Unless you can let them run, you will be dragging them everywhere.  So where does that leave you, the "cheater" ski and the SL ski.  I personally, 99% of the time ski a 165 volkl racetiger SL with marker comp 20 or 30 bindings with piston plates.  To me, they are are stiff enough to lay them on edge to bite, but wide enough in the tip to float on top of the junk. 

 

The FIS GS ski is not something I would put someone on unless they are running full length GS courses.  The WC SL hole ski is a great all mountain ski. 

 

 

icon14.gif  Exactly what I preach.
 

 

post #67 of 79

Telling everyone, to buy a Race Stock ski is NUTZ!!!!! confused.gif

post #68 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atomicman View Post

Telling everyone, to buy a Race Stock ski is NUTZ!!!!! confused.gif


Let me rephrase that... I tell everyone that I think can handle them. For the same money, sometimes less, you get a wood core sidewall ski. Would take that over foam any day. Plus you get to choose your plate and binding.......
post #69 of 79


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post




Disclaimer: I have not tried these skis. However, if you were to try these and like them, I suspect it would throw the premise of this entire thread - that 80+ or even 90+ mm waisted skis are never going to be precise, quick, and grippy enough for you - out the window. At that point you'd really have to start giving some comparable skis a fair trial. So yes, I'm guessing that when others say Bushwackers are great carvers, they mean great carvers for an 88mm ski. (And PLEASE let's do Chemist the courtesy of not letting this degenerate into another one of those "wide skis can carve" vs. "wide skis can't carve" threads.)

 

As for Atomicman's opinions, they sound very plausible to me. (Fastest guy I race with is on those D2 cheater GS skis and loves them.) However, don't forget his handle is "Atomicman," so a certain bias has to be accounted for.  rolleyes.gif

 


exactly there is nothing out there that carves short turns like a SL ski...but Ithere are mid fats that have great edge grip on hardpack and even ice. The Bushwacker have the best off trail edge grip of any ski I have ever skied. Meaning that in wide range of turns from carved to skidded to pivoted they always have grip on the snow but never to much. Where as say my 8.7 which are slightly better on groomers than my Bushwackers tend to not be so grippy off trail.

 

The thing is alot of the 'performance" from a SL ski or race carver is actually detrimental to off trail skiing. good to great skiers can use them and be fine but they are being held back and the mountian is dictating their skis to them, instead of them dictating to the mountain. Also most people who say "I can keep up with anyone I want" or "go down anything " on SL skis havent skied with everybody and have went down anything. I would love to see Ted or Bode jump a 15 foot cliff to a straightline to 40 mph turns  in broken up powder on SL skis. I dont think they or anyone could do it. Plus they would never try. I have never seen Bode ski at all, but Ted skis the bird all the time, and he never freeskis race skis or anything close to race skis, even on hardpack days. Yesterday he was rocking some Carlos 125mm underfoot on a 13 inch powder day.

 

My point is the best skiers on race skis in the world except for defango(who is an idiot apparently) dont ski SL skis off trial because its to hard an probably the biggest reason is its not as fun.

 

 

 

 

MO this entire thread is funny because all mountain skis are skis that suck equally at everything, and race skis arent all mountain skis.

 

post #70 of 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by qcanoe View Post




However, don't forget his handle is "Atomicman," so a certain bias has to be accounted for.  rolleyes.gif

 

qcanoe:

 

Unbeknowest to you, I have been exclusively skiing  HEAD skis for the last 4 seasons until this season. Also ski in the Head Raptoe 150 WC boot for the last 4 season!

 

So no Atomic bias here!

 

As far as BWPA comments. I skied my Head iSL RD's Sunday back to back on absolute boilerplate and ice.

 

The D2 Gs ceater ski pis_ed opn the Race Stock slalom ski for edge grip and my Slaloms have a .7/4 degree on them.  

 

The guys I was skiing with when on then D2 Gs stopped me and asked me how the hell I could pure carve the x-tra hard snow on Sunday (By the way it was 40 degrees on Saturday and got donw to 13 degrees Saturday night & I showed up sunday)

 

Additionally, the OP is not jumping 15 foot cliffs nor straightlining  broken crud so, as far as that goes, probably not a deciding factor for a guy skiing a 160cm slalom ski!rolleyes.gif, sheesh!
 

 

post #71 of 79

I think the clincher about race skis as rec skis is that when world cup racers ski at Squaw, it is on 100+ skis that are not race skis, or even all mountain race skis. I've seen TG on Chopsticks, for example.

post #72 of 79
Thread Starter 

Hi guys, 

 

Well, my ski demo plans for last year fell through, but I've finally managed to arrange something.  I'm heading up the mountains soon and, among those available for demo, this is what they recommended for me.  Can you recommend what lengths I should try in any of these?  I'm 5'7", 157# (though usually ski at 148#).  I'm particularly interested in the Kastles, Stocklis, and Heads, since I've never skied any of these brands; also curious about the Volks.  Any recommendations would be greatly appreciated. [Since the Heads aren't SL skis, 163 seems short; and 178 seems long in the MX88.  But what do I know....]  

 

 

 ATOMIC Crimson Ti: 164, 171, 178, 185   

      

 BLIZZARD Magnum 8.5: 167, 174, 181   

      

 HEAD Supershape Titan: 156,163,170,177 [163]  

 HEAD Rev 85: 163, 170, 177, 184 [163]  

 HEAD Rev 90: 149,156,163,170,177,184 [163]  

      

 KASTLE MX88: 158, 168, 178, 188 [178]  

 KASTLE FX94: 166, 176, 186 [176]  

      

 LINE Prophet: 165,172,179,186   

      

 NORDICA FireArrow 80 Ti: 156,164,172,180   

      

 STOCKLI Laser SX: 154,162,170,178   

 STOCKLI Stormrider VXL: 160,170,180,190   

      

 VOLKL RTM80: 161,166,171,176,181   

 VOLKL RTM84: 166,171,176,181   

 VOLKL Kendo: 163,170,177,184

post #73 of 79
Thread Starter 

I'll add I'll be skiing steeps, moguls, groomers, bowls, trees (general all-mtn.), and they're supposed to get a foot of fresh 2 days before we arrive, followed by warm temps, so there should be some nice cut-up crud.  They also have a selection of K2 skis [Bolt (72mm, 10% rocker), Rictor (80mm, 30% rocker), Aftershock (86mm, 30% rocker), Sideshow (90mm, 30% rocker)], but not sure if those appeal to me.

post #74 of 79

i am a simular hight to you, for all mountain skis i tend to go with the low 160 lengths but it really depends on the ski.

 

quite a range of skis in that list, from the head titan thats almost a wider slalom ski to something like the line prophet softer lighter and twin topped.

 

definitely try the head rev 85 pro, i have demoed the rev 80 and in my opinion this is a series of skis well worth looking at.  

post #75 of 79
Thread Starter 

Note I'm following qcanoe's recommendation to take a "deep, daring breath and demo some boards that are not actually race skis."  I'd love to try some modern race skis, but none are available.  I'd also love to try the MX78 and MX83, but those aren't available.  I'll have three days, and one of the shops is positioned for on-mountain swaps, so I should be able to try a good selection.  

post #76 of 79
Hi
 
 
Weeks ago I had the opportunity to test some racing skis (Atomic D2 GS, D2 SL, Head Rebels iSL, Fischer WC GS), while alternating with some more friendly drivers (Nordica Firearrow Ti and Volkl Kendo) and it got me thinking about an "all mountain racing ski". I think its contradictory and impossible to have such thing. The all montains will tend to be damper and wider compared to the racing, while the race ones will be too lively and eve grippy in some situations.
 
I skied all day in conditions that were firm snow while it was snowing a small layer of new snow on top, and when I was with the all-mountain in a steep hard patch I was like "oh man, wish I was with the racing skis" and when I was in some tight space or irregular terrain I was like "gimme back the kendos NOW", as the "feel" transmitted by the racing skis was tiring me.
 
It was funny that I read many many times in reviews about the kendos the phrase "turns like a GS ski". It most certainly doesnt, but then, what does except for a GS ski? But it was a very fun ski, happy in variable conditions.
 
Anyways, this is to say that for sure there will be a compromise and from the last selection it seems compromise is "more all mountain, less racing"?
 
I would suggest maybe the Volkl Code Speedwall, which was friendly. Some Salomon Enduro  maybe?
post #77 of 79
Thread Starter 

Agreed, IceCookie, I assume I'll have to accept some compromise. And yes, as you recognized, I've decided to make my upcoming set of demos a bit more all-mountian than race.  This will be my first time trying these types of skis, so the idea behind this list is to see for myself just how large the compromise is, and whether I find it acceptable.   If I can get away with liking these skis, great. Otherwise, I'll have to back off on the waist widths and give up some all-mountain performance.

post #78 of 79
Thread Starter 

Since at this point I'll get to actually try many of them, at this point what I'd mostly like is advice on length, and possibly also what would be a good starting point for boot position ( e.g., I've read many like Stocklis at 1 cm forward).

post #79 of 79
Thread Starter 

Here's the results of my 3 days of demoing at Mammoth, if anyone's curious:

http://www.epicski.com/t/119277/ex-racer-demos-modern-skis-titan-rev85-rtm84-kendo-proph98-finds-himself-delighted-and-confused

Footloose didn't have much available in my size for the Stocklis and Kastles, so all my demoing was from the Village, Canyon, and Main Lodge locations at Mammoth.

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