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Why do some Blizzard The One skis have camber under foot and others are flat under foot?

post #1 of 29
Thread Starter 

Is it normal production variances, intentional mid-production design change, or some other reason? 

post #2 of 29

Not an authority on Ones (paging BWPA), but those where I notice, or when I demoed, had a bit of camber. In all honesty, personal measurement error more likely than manufacturing error from a company as proficient as Blizzard. 

post #3 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

. In all honesty, personal measurement error more likely than manufacturing error from a company as proficient as Blizzard. 

 

Hmm,just like Rossignol could not fukc up with the S3/7s last year...?
 

 

post #4 of 29
No, like fact eyeballing camber is onlyslightly less accurate than guessing how many calories that muffin had...and in case u hadn't noticed Blizzard is not Rossignol.
post #5 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

No, like fact eyeballing camber is onlyslightly less accurate than guessing how many calories that muffin had...and in case u hadn't noticed Blizzard is not Rossignol.


I thought you implied that it is impossible for a company as proficient like Blizzard to manufacture faulty skis?

 

And I pointed out that the rossi (wich some would say is even more proficient,as they are bigger than blizzard) still managed to produce 

a patch of S3s(or was it S6s?) that had their rocker all over the place. Different than the SIA models and those sale in europe and wich they rectified in the later shippings to US.

 

 

My bad. 

 

post #6 of 29
Thread Starter 

I took pics at the midpoint of two different pairs of skis, laid base-to-base without any external force on either other than gravity. 

 

In this first pair you can see that there is no space in between.  They look as if there is no camber at all under foot:

 

IMG_1682.JPG

 

In this second pair of Blizzards you can see a gap of  few mm.:

 

IMG_1689.JPG

post #7 of 29

Wow. Significant difference; looks like a lot more than a few mm. Assuming both are new, all I can say is that I have never seen this before with any of my Blizzard skis or demos, surprised, must be a faulty pair. They're supposed to have camber; bottom pair look about like they should.

 

But that doesn't falsify my larger argument, just happens you picked an outlier. Odds are over 1000 pairs of skis that variance in measured camber is more due to our own measurement error than manufacturer's error. Second, Rossi may be bigger, but I'll take German or Austrian manufacturing any day of the week. No, that doesn't mean it's impossible for Blizzard to make mistakes (see above), but I'll bet it's a lot less common than at Rossi. Would you rather depend on a Peugot or a BMW? 

post #8 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

Wow. Significant difference; looks like a lot more than a few mm. Assuming both are new, all I can say is that I have never seen this before with any of my Blizzard skis or demos, surprised, must be a faulty pair. They're supposed to have camber; bottom pair look about like they should.

 

But that doesn't falsify my larger argument, just happens you picked an outlier. Odds are over 1000 pairs of skis that variance in measured camber is more due to our own measurement error than manufacturer's error. Second, Rossi may be bigger, but I'll take German or Austrian manufacturing any day of the week. No, that doesn't mean it's impossible for Blizzard to make mistakes (see above), but I'll bet it's a lot less common than at Rossi. Would you rather depend on a Peugot or a BMW? 


Yes, they're new.  I got the top (flat) pair just two days ago.  I was wondering if I have bought an early production pair pre-camber or something?  At least I got a good deal on them, hehhhh.  I don't suppose there is anyone here from Blizzard who might be bold enough to comment?

 

post #9 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post




Yes, they're new.  I got the top (flat) pair just two days ago.  I was wondering if I have bought an early production pair pre-camber or something?  At least I got a good deal on them, hehhhh.  I don't suppose there is anyone here from Blizzard who might be bold enough to comment?

 


not from blizzard, but am starting to own alot of them.

 

I own a preproduction pair that is flat and also is slightly stiffer than the production pairs. This was all by hand flex observing off the snow. On snow I couldnt tell the difference between the cambered and flat pairs.

 

I like the ski enough that I am buying the same thing over the summer to replace my destroyed pair.

 

post #10 of 29

The cores are wood, right? I wouldn't expect every core to bend exactly the same.

post #11 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post

I took pics at the midpoint of two different pairs of skis, laid base-to-base without any external force on either other than gravity. 

 

In this first pair you can see that there is no space in between.  They look as if there is no camber at all under foot:

 

IMG_1682.JPG

 

In this second pair of Blizzards you can see a gap of  few mm.:

 

IMG_1689.JPG



Mine are somewhere in between those two. On a related note - did anyone notice that the printed on midpoint arrow on the sidewall is not 100% in the same place on both of their skis?

post #12 of 29

I also have a pair of huge troubles (supposedly flat camber) with about 5mm of camber. My ones have 2-3mm of camber. Who cares? Do you think it makes a big difference in how they ski? I don't.

 

You want a flat pair? Ski  your pair for 100 days and they will probably be flat after that.

post #13 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

I also have a pair of huge troubles (supposedly flat camber) with about 5mm of camber. My ones have 2-3mm of camber. Who cares? Do you think it makes a big difference in how they ski? I don't.

 

You want a flat pair? Ski  your pair for 100 days and they will probably be flat after that.



Were you replying to me?

post #14 of 29

Yep. Your "cambered" pair have less than edge width of camber in each ski. Just go ski them.

post #15 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

Yep. Your "cambered" pair have less than edge width of camber in each ski. Just go ski them.


 

Then you're not making sense to me.  Where did I say I wanted a flat ski?  Where did I say I wanted a different ski?  Where did I say I wasn't skiing them?  You're inferring way too much.

post #16 of 29

I am not inferring anything, just telling you what I think. I think you are splitting hairs. Just go ski each pair and see if you think they are really different.

 

Of course there is variance in the manufacturing process. It takes alot of time and effort  and money to put out two of anything that are literally identical. The fact that two skis in a pair match each other for flex and camber is what really matters. The fact that another pair look a little different is not very relevant.

post #17 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

I am not inferring anything, just telling you what I think. I think you are splitting hairs. Just go ski each pair and see if you think they are really different.

 

Of course there is variance in the manufacturing process. It takes alot of time and effort  and money to put out two of anything that are literally identical. The fact that two skis in a pair match each other for flex and camber is what really matters. The fact that another pair look a little different is not very relevant.


 

I was asking why there's a difference (because there clearly is one), not what I should do about it.  Thanks for your opinion anyway.

 

By the way, you've inferred that 2nd pair is mine to use (it's not). 

post #18 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post

I was asking why there's a difference (because there clearly is one), not what I should do about it.  Thanks for your opinion anyway.

 

By the way, you've inferred that 2nd pair is mine to use (it's not).

 

But is it a difference that matters? The two pairs also have different serial numbers. That makes them clearly different. Do you think that difference will have any effect on how they ski?

 

Maybe two things can be distinctive in some way (like having a different serial number) and still not really be different at all. Maybe 5mm of camber vs flat camber is one of those meaningless distinctions. The only way to know for sure is to try both pairs.

 

Again, please don't tell me what I think. And that is too bad...


Edited by tromano - 4/4/11 at 7:33pm
post #19 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by tromano View Post

But is it a difference that matters? The two pairs also have different serial numbers. That makes them clearly different. Do you think that difference will have any effect on how they ski?

 

Maybe two things can be distinctive in some way (like having a different serial number) and still not really be different at all. Maybe 5mm of camber vs flat camber is one of those meaningless distinctions. The only way to know for sure is to try both pairs.

 

Again, please don't tell me what I think. And that is too bad...


 

 

 

I wasn't asking about whether or not it matters because I plan to ski the crap out of my skis one way or another, but feel free to make assumptions and jump to whatever conclusions you wish.  
 

 


Edited by Toecutter - 4/5/11 at 8:49am
post #20 of 29
This is why Blizzard is going away from IQ in the fatter skis.... It's very hard to build rockered skis with the IQ system. The IQ rails are preformed pieces that have camber built into them and they want to add camber to the skis that are supposed to be flat under foot. It's not dramatic and won't be noticeable when skiing but that's why there are slight differences in the camber between some of the Ones/Crushes/Answers.

This is all eliminated with Flipcore.
post #21 of 29

as the skis cure (adhesives continue to harden, core material stabilizes) out of the press, some slight movement of the structure can occur. back in the day, this would account for camber differences of around 25%, one pair to the other; now days, with less camber in the design, the differences are less. most skis are paired by hand with visual inspection after curing takes place, then the serial numbers printed. that a pair is consistent to itself is all that matters. from one pair to another, a difference of a few mm is not going to be noticeable when you ski them. when my son and I are picking a pair off the wall, we flex them all, and select the pair we think is most suitable, stiffest or softest depending. stiffness (variance within a stack of the same model ski) is a real difference; a few mm camber probably not. 

post #22 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by wasatchback View Post

This is why Blizzard is going away from IQ in the fatter skis.... It's very hard to build rockered skis with the IQ system. The IQ rails are preformed pieces that have camber built into them and they want to add camber to the skis that are supposed to be flat under foot. It's not dramatic and won't be noticeable when skiing but that's why there are slight differences in the camber between some of the Ones/Crushes/Answers.

This is all eliminated with Flipcore.


Very interesting. If I read you correctly, the original design of the One/Crush/Answer intended the area underfoot to be flat but the preformed IQ rails by their inherent design are responsible for any camber that may be present. Do I have that straight?

post #23 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

as the skis cure (adhesives continue to harden, core material stabilizes) out of the press, some slight movement of the structure can occur. back in the day, this would account for camber differences of around 25%, one pair to the other; now days, with less camber in the design, the differences are less. most skis are paired by hand with visual inspection after curing takes place, then the serial numbers printed. that a pair is consistent to itself is all that matters. from one pair to another, a difference of a few mm is not going to be noticeable when you ski them. when my son and I are picking a pair off the wall, we flex them all, and select the pair we think is most suitable, stiffest or softest depending. stiffness (variance within a stack of the same model ski) is a real difference; a few mm camber probably not. 



So any difference camber/flat underfoot is a result of normal production variances rather than an intentional design change. Right?

post #24 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by BushwackerinPA View Post

I like the ski enough that I am buying the same thing over the summer to replace my destroyed pair.

 


Josh - how badly have they been destroyed?  I'd love to pick up a pair cheap to see how I like them, but can't seem to find anything.  

 

Are they making The One again next year, or are they replacing it with the Bonafide?  I don't see it on their website for next year:

 

http://www.blizzardsportusa.com/Products/BigMountain/

 

post #25 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post




Josh - how badly have they been destroyed?  I'd love to pick up a pair cheap to see how I like them, but can't seem to find anything.  

 

Are they making The One again next year, or are they replacing it with the Bonafide?  I don't see it on their website for next year:

 

http://www.blizzardsportusa.com/Products/BigMountain/

 


The One is in their twintip line. It is coming back next year. The titan series was discontinued.

 

post #26 of 29
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toecutter View Post




Very interesting. If I read you correctly, the original design of the One/Crush/Answer intended the area underfoot to be flat but the preformed IQ rails by their inherent design are responsible for any camber that may be present. Do I have that straight?


Basically yes... Until two years ago blizzard had never produced a ski with no camber under foot.  It was a little bit of a learning process.  It has a lot to do with how the ski cures as

well.  There are just slight variances in production.  Nothing that should be evident when skiing but looking at them you can tell that one might have a slight bit of camber and another

might be flat.  Because these skis are so soft as soon as you step on them the camber goes away and you have a flat ski.  

 

post #27 of 29


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post




Josh - how badly have they been destroyed?  I'd love to pick up a pair cheap to see how I like them, but can't seem to find anything.  

 

Are they making The One again next year, or are they replacing it with the Bonafide?  I don't see it on their website for next year:

 

http://www.blizzardsportusa.com/Products/BigMountain/

 




I am keeping them as dedicated rocks skis. Trust me its not worth the trouble to ship them anywhere.

post #28 of 29
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MattGoose View Post




Josh - how badly have they been destroyed?  I'd love to pick up a pair cheap to see how I like them, but can't seem to find anything


The Mt. Bachelor ski shop has a 170, 177, and 184 still.  As of last week they were only 25% off of $899 (with bindings) but as the season winds down they might lower the price further.  I don't know if they ship or any of that, but you could contact them.

 

http://www.mtbachelor.com/winter/index.html

 

post #29 of 29

Bushwacker/Toe,

 

Thanks much for the input...  I'll definitely be keeping my eyes open for these over the course of the summer.

 

Thinking about heading up to Stowe this Thursday (very tentatively) as I got a free lift ticket.  Will be working my way up and down the mountain road to see if there are any great deals!

 

Thanks again!

 

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