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Do some people not desire/seek lessons? - Page 3

post #61 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post

JayT, I hope you won't mind if I don't believe you when you say you were self-taught and were a scratch golfer for an extended period, or hold a 4 hcp presently as a former scratch golfer. I simply do not believe you, mainly because the internet is full of liars and people who otherwise like to adopt a level of expertise (on the internet) that they don't actually possess.

 

Jeez, GV. Ease up. It's a conversation, not a competition. If you are in one of those places where you need to dismember a rawhide chew toy because you haven't been getting outside to run enough, by all means go do that and then return. When you come back, give folks the benefit of the doubt. It's the civilized thing to do.

post #62 of 104
I'm a little confused by that remark. I think you may be misreading me. My apologies for giving off any vibe other than trying to clarify.
post #63 of 104

This is just a personal opinion, but one I believe that is held by many intermediate, self taught skiers. Lessons mess you up!

 

We are afraid that taking a lesson will actually regress our skiing technique. We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

 

Great skiers have technique and natural ability, but trying to ski like a pro, without their ability, is not always the best fit. Too many instructors try to make you ski like they do, instead of getting the best out your skill sets with modified technique. The same thing happens in golf and causes a cycle of lessons and deteriorating results. It's like putting square pegs in round holes.

 

There are great instructors out there who understand this concept, but most just try to force the students into their concept of what they think is right. If I get down the hill safely with control and speed whilst having fun, does it matter that my technique is not textbook perfect.

 

In golf, one bad tip that gets in your head can ruin your game for months. I think a lot of people are afraid of their ski season being ruined by someone try to "improve" them because they think they could/should be better.

post #64 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

This is just a personal opinion, but one I believe that is held by many intermediate, self taught skiers. Lessons mess you up!

 

We are afraid that taking a lesson will actually regress our skiing technique. We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

 

Great skiers have technique and natural ability, but trying to ski like a pro, without their ability, is not always the best fit. Too many instructors try to make you ski like they do, instead of getting the best out your skill sets with modified technique. The same thing happens in golf and causes a cycle of lessons and deteriorating results. It's like putting square pegs in round holes.

 

There are great instructors out there who understand this concept, but most just try to force the students into their concept of what they think is right. If I get down the hill safely with control and speed whilst having fun, does it matter that my technique is not textbook perfect.

 

In golf, one bad tip that gets in your head can ruin your game for months. I think a lot of people are afraid of their ski season being ruined by someone try to "improve" them because they think they could/should be better.

 

Understand the point.  Out of curiosity, did you learn as an adult?  How many lessons have you or your friends had from a Level 3 instructor?  Would some sort of guarantee of satisfaction make a difference?

 

For myself, the money required for higher level lessons was the bigger issue than any worry about having to unlearn a bad habit.  My opinion changed after a multi-day clinic with very experienced instructors that was an optional part of a group gathering.  Took quite a while for me to decide to take the plunge and plunk down several hundred dollars on top of the cost of the trip out west.  I know I'm having a lot more fun than before.  I learned as a young teen on straight skis with regular instruction that I don't even remember any more. Didn't ski again for a long time and was self-taught on shaped skis.

post #65 of 104

Hey marz, you seem to have really latched on to the notion that only a level 3 instructor is capable of giving a good lesson... in pretty much every post. What gives? Have you never seen a good lesson from an experienced level 1 or 2? 

post #66 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

We are afraid that taking a lesson will actually regress our skiing technique. We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

 

Great skiers have technique and natural ability, but trying to ski like a pro, without their ability, is not always the best fit. Too many instructors try to make you ski like they do, instead of getting the best out your skill sets with modified technique. The same thing happens in golf and causes a cycle of lessons and deteriorating results. It's like putting square pegs in round holes.

 

This is definitely true in golf - despite what may (or may not) have been perceived as my anti-lessons approach in this thread, I actually used to give golf lessons while working at a course during my summers off from college.  Sometimes the golfer was doing something so detrimental to future progress that their swing simply had to be broken down and rebuilt, but I would only take this approach after explaining they were to going to have several ugly rounds before starting to improve and whether or not they were okay with that.  Usually they were, but other times they had a golf trip coming up with some friends or an important business round and just wanted some fine tuning to get more out of their current swing.  (In either case - keep your head down!)

 

I'm not sure the same would apply to skiing based on the lessons I've had, but maybe my flaws were basic enough that a few good tips went a long way (I felt like I was a better skier at the end of the day) while some people have such a bad approach it's almost like starting over?  If so, do you ski instructors tell the client this?

post #67 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by markojp View Post

Hey marz, you seem to have really latched on to the notion that only a level 3 instructor is capable of giving a good lesson... in pretty much every post. What gives? Have you never seen a good lesson from an experienced level 1 or 2? 

I'm trying to understand where Bad Wolf is coming from since he voiced the opinion that many intermediates avoid lessons because they are afraid working with a bad instructor would mess them up.

 

Recently, I was part of a long discussion that included the topic of Level 3 vs Level 1 or even Level 2 qualifications.  Now I'm curious about what intermediates or advanced skiers who take lessons know about the instructors they work with.  Or if they even know what level PSIA certification their instructors have.  What I learned from that discussion was that the Level 1 testing is not designed to qualify someone to teach upper level students.  Of course, an instructor with lots of years of teaching experience who just hadn't gotten certified can be a great instructor.

 

Did I ever say that only Level 3 instructors give good lessons?  If I'm giving that impression, then I'll try to remember to add an explanation when I'm curious again.

post #68 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

I'm trying to understand where Bad Wolf is coming from since he voiced the opinion that many intermediates avoid lessons because they are afraid working with a bad instructor would mess them up.

 

Recently, I was part of a long discussion that included the topic of Level 3 vs Level 1 or even Level 2 qualifications.  Now I'm curious about what intermediates or advanced skiers who take lessons know about the instructors they work with.  Or if they even know what level PSIA certification their instructors have.  What I learned from that discussion was that the Level 1 testing is not designed to qualify someone to teach upper level students.  Of course, an instructor with lots of years of teaching experience who just hadn't gotten certified can be a great instructor.

 

Did I ever say that only Level 3 instructors give good lessons?  If I'm giving that impression, then I'll try to remember to add an explanation when I'm curious again.

 

Yes, I know. I posted in the same thread and remember well the many questions you asked on behalf of a friend. And yes, a level 1 is not trained to teach upper level students. There are some level 2's with more current certification who will offer better instruction and ability to demonstrate correctly than a some level 3's who got their certification many years ago. It's pretty fluid. I also know a couple of young women who just got their level 1 who have great race backgrounds, are strong skiers, excellent communicators, and are certainly capable of much more than their certification would indicate. I'm sure they'll have their level 3 in two or three more seasons. And again, a good ski school WILL NOT match a level 1 or in 95% of cases a level 2 with lessons with level 7-8-9 students. Our school won't unless they feel that a particular level 2 is skilled enough in the type of lesson a particular client is requesting, and again, this is rare. They would rather turn a client away than offer an inferior experience. This sometimes happens during busy holiday weekends. To throw another one at you, perhaps it's better to ask, "have you ever had a lesson with a current or former divisional clinic leader (DCL) or regional/national demo team member? 

post #69 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

I'm trying to understand where Bad Wolf is coming from since he voiced the opinion that many intermediates avoid lessons because they are afraid working with a bad instructor would mess them up.

 

For me, I worry that a ski instructor would try to break my technique down in order to improve it, by the book, but I don't ski by the book . He may be an excellent instructor giving excellent advice, but my home made, self taught technique may never recover from the changes. These fears may be totally unfounded, but if they prevent me from taking a lesson then it starts to answer the question the thread asks. Plus, a lot of folks just don't like to hear they are doing it wrong.

 

I think true beginners often understand the need for lessons, and advanced skiers find a benefit in coaching to refine their technique, but the vast majority of skiers who fall in the middle, just want to do it themselves and fear the input of others. Not saying this is right or wrong, just the reality of the scenario for many intermediates.

post #70 of 104

Bad Wolf:  Thanks for your frank answer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

 

For me, I worry that a ski instructor would try to break my technique down in order to improve it, by the book, but I don't ski by the book . He may be an excellent instructor giving excellent advice, but my home made, self taught technique may never recover from the changes. These fears may be totally unfounded, but if they prevent me from taking a lesson then it starts to answer the question the thread asks. Plus, a lot of folks just don't like to hear they are doing it wrong.

 

I think true beginners often understand the need for lessons, and advanced skiers find a benefit in coaching to refine their technique, but the vast majority of skiers who fall in the middle, just want to do it themselves and fear the input of others. Not saying this is right or wrong, just the reality of the scenario for many intermediates.

post #71 of 104

I find this an interesting discussion. And while I usually just read and never post, a few things caught my attention. For one the lessons in skiing and golf analogy. Jay, I see your point that not everyone should get/wants instruction, because they don't want to go backward,  but the biggest difference between golf and skiing is that golf is easy to quantify. There's an old saying "men and women lie but numbers don't". 85 is 85. You are either scoring better or you're not. But skiing is not that way. There are a lot of people who can hack their way down most any run, and even if they crash, will try again. Hell, it used to be me, and some days it still feels like that for me. And Wolf, as far as instruction goes, good instructors are only half the equation. As a student you have to be able to differentiate the information that is pertinent to you, with the stuff that isn't. I personally feel instruction is useful, but agree paralysis by over analysis has to be guarded against. Side note: Jay, I have read plenty of your posts on golf and have no doubt of your ghin. I am mostly self taught as well, although have read most of the teaching books. Does that count as instruction?

post #72 of 104

1000

 

I like this limit of 4 as a motivator. The Vail financial figures shows it works too imo.  

 

I would say confidence boosting is a motivator.

1000

 

 

 

We had a powder dump at heavenly and some Australian families and the lady from Arizona weren't sure what to do.  Heavenly Ski School didn't want to have 3 adults, a 10 year old race club warior and a gangly 15 year old in one all day lesson. Anyway the school succumbed and off we went. Nothing formal, just tips and pushing boundaries a tad. And under $400 for us all - memo Andy Wirth: send mystery shoppers in to your ski school :)

 

We ended up skiing trees, down relatively steep terrain and we ended up on Motts. All in all there was a day that none of us will forget with Dave R....[Something unpronounceable].


Edited by veteran - 11/11/12 at 10:25pm
post #73 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by marznc View Post

 

Understand the point.  Out of curiosity, did you learn as an adult?  How many lessons have you or your friends had from a Level 3 instructor?  Would some sort of guarantee of satisfaction make a difference?

 

Our experience is very similar. I learned to ski on a vacation in Bulgaria in the seventies as a twelve year old. The first day was meant to be lessons, but I was bored to death by them, "snow plow, bend zee knees, turn the bus". My buddy and I took the lift to the top of the mountain and just came down as fast as we could. Very much instinctual skiing. Franz Klammer was just coming into his own at that time and I just tried to copy him, like kids do. Lessons seemed a little redundant after that first day; my head was full of cowbells.

 

I did skip skiing for a few decades and got back into it with the side cut skis. I thought about lessons, but the new skis just turned on their own. To be fair, I'm sure I could benefit from some training, but I have a blast getting down the hill in my own style and would rather spend my limited time and money on other things than lessons, like cool goggles! I have no illusions about the faults in my technique, but there really is no point in trying to rebuild it now. I am effective, if not pretty.

 

If it ain't broke don't fix it, right?

post #74 of 104
Getting an instructor is the best! On those crowded powder days an instructor is worth every penny - for the line cuts. While a couple of tips are OK, a great instructor will lead you to the best conditions and let you figure it out. Follow the instructor line and copy the style.
"I can't believe they get paid to ski. I'm so much better than them!" GNAR
Eric
post #75 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by chip inderhol View Post

the biggest difference between golf and skiing is that golf is easy to quantify. There's an old saying "men and women lie but numbers don't". 85 is 85. You are either scoring better or you're not.

 

Excellent point. This is why they invented racing. Seriously. The best thing that ever happened to my skiing was participating (reluctantly, at first) in a beer league. I learned that my times don't lie, and that in the long run I was absolutely not going to improve them meaningfully until I really got a grip (yuk) on some of the fundamentals of modern carving technique. These fundamentals have turned out to be helpful in informing a lot of the rest of my skiing - not just my racing.

 

(Supposedly this experience should have lead me to serious pursuit of coaching or lessons, and that is the obvious link between my story and this thread. However in practice for a variety of reasons I have not done this except in sporadic and informal ways. PART - not all - of the problem I've encountered is that the very sparse lessons I have taken have been disappointing. Basically they've been the ski-lesson equivalent of the help desk person who's reading from a "cookbook" of Frequently Asked Questions, and is not really listening to the fact that you've already read the FAQ and it didn't help. So my resolve now is that the next time I take a lesson it's going to be only with an instructor who comes personally recommended by a skier whose skill and knowledge I respect.)

post #76 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

This is just a personal opinion, but one I believe that is held by many intermediate, self taught skiers. Lessons mess you up!

 

We are afraid that taking a lesson will actually regress our skiing technique. We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

 

Great skiers have technique and natural ability, but trying to ski like a pro, without their ability, is not always the best fit. Too many instructors try to make you ski like they do, instead of getting the best out your skill sets with modified technique. The same thing happens in golf and causes a cycle of lessons and deteriorating results. It's like putting square pegs in round holes.

 

There are great instructors out there who understand this concept, but most just try to force the students into their concept of what they think is right. If I get down the hill safely with control and speed whilst having fun, does it matter that my technique is not textbook perfect.

 

In golf, one bad tip that gets in your head can ruin your game for months. I think a lot of people are afraid of their ski season being ruined by someone try to "improve" them because they think they could/should be better.

Hmmmm, I recall a lesson I took with Bob Barnes when I said "Wow, that feels awkward". 

His reply: (paraphrase)  Good, that means you're not doing the same thing you were doing. 

 

FWIW, I wasn't doing good things in my skiing prior to taking lessons, but I was blissfully ignorant. 

post #77 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

This is just a personal opinion, but one I believe that is held by many intermediate, self taught skiers. Lessons mess you up!

We are afraid that taking a lesson will actually regress our skiing technique. We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

Great skiers have technique and natural ability, but trying to ski like a pro, without their ability, is not always the best fit. Too many instructors try to make you ski like they do, instead of getting the best out your skill sets with modified technique. The same thing happens in golf and causes a cycle of lessons and deteriorating results. It's like putting square pegs in round holes.

There are great instructors out there who understand this concept, but most just try to force the students into their concept of what they think is right. If I get down the hill safely with control and speed whilst having fun, does it matter that my technique is not textbook perfect.

In golf, one bad tip that gets in your head can ruin your game for months. I think a lot of people are afraid of their ski season being ruined by someone try to "improve" them because they think they could/should be better.

Would you please tell me whether the above statements are serious?

They read to me like a satire. That's why I'm asking.

You're suggesting that people are "experts" because they possess natural innate "expert" abilities. You're essentially suggesting that everyone who is better than you, is so because of native gifts and not because he or she worked on his/her skiing.

When you say you don't ski "by the book," you look even more like you're writing satire.

What do you think makes someone a better athlete? Do you value the work inherent in practicing fundamentals? Or do you think people are just "born great" and there's no chance to improve? Some 3d option, perhaps?
post #78 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad Wolf View Post

This is just a personal opinion, but one I believe that is held by many intermediate, self taught skiers. Lessons mess you up!

 

We are afraid that taking a lesson will actually regress our skiing technique. We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

 

Great skiers have technique and natural ability, but trying to ski like a pro, without their ability, is not always the best fit. Too many instructors try to make you ski like they do, instead of getting the best out your skill sets with modified technique. The same thing happens in golf and causes a cycle of lessons and deteriorating results. It's like putting square pegs in round holes.

 

There are great instructors out there who understand this concept, but most just try to force the students into their concept of what they think is right. If I get down the hill safely with control and speed whilst having fun, does it matter that my technique is not textbook perfect.

 

In golf, one bad tip that gets in your head can ruin your game for months. I think a lot of people are afraid of their ski season being ruined by someone try to "improve" them because they think they could/should be better.

 

  You can ALWAYS get better!! Lindsey and Ted receive coaching on a regular basis, and they are among the worlds best...to say that instruction can "mess you up" to me suggests that you may be afraid of what the instructor might say. Challenge yourself, and you WILL advancesmile.gif P.s. I still receive feedback from my old coach (we ski together alot), and I've been skiing/racing for over 36yrs!!!

post #79 of 104
Quote:
We can get down the mountain and know that our technique is far from perfect and could be improved, but worry that in an attempt to make us better skiers, we will loose the ability we have gained.

 

This is a valid fear. New movements require practice to ingrain before they will be as reliable as old movements. There are many who have questioned whether Tiger Woods' repeated swing overhauls have been a smart choice. It's a valid debate. What most people have not seen are the small changes that Tiger has incorporated into his swing in between the major changes. Most pro athletes are continually seeking to improve. They "manage" the severity of the changes they try to make against their schedule so that the learning curve is least risky/disruptive to their performance. If you are not a pro, this level of focus on the sport makes little sense.

 

While there are many skiers who could benefit from a tear down/rebuild of their technique, there are very few where that is the only useful option. If we can address the fear of regression/learning curve, then the question is whether any instruction is worth the cost to someone who is happy with their skiing. For most people the answer is yes with the right instructor/lesson and probably no with just any instructor/lesson. Without a good idea of what improvements are possible and what those achievements are worth, it's not worth the effort to explore how to achieve those improvements.

 

In all my years of teaching, I've only told one student that I could not help them and even then I was wrong. She was a fellow instructor who got caught up in one of my video analysis clinics. I taped her skiing on the hill and scheduled an indoor review with her later that day. But when review time came I told her there was nothing I could do because she needed her alignment fixed. When she said "Yeah I know" and indicated she had been putting it off, I detected a lack of motivation. So I do the review session with her anyway. I showed her that she was skiing the best that was possible with the gear she had. I pointed out performance issues that were clearly visible when compared side by side to aligned skiers and in slow motion showed her exactly how the alignment issue caused those problems. Two weeks later, she had her boots fixed and a few days in and was so blown away by the difference that I got my one and only kiss from a "student". Still, I have had many students who skiing did not change after an hour lesson or reverted back the minute the lesson was over.

 

My point here is that is really hard to see what is possible without professional help. There are plenty of skiers who are on a skill plateau who are also "one small step" way from a significantly improved level of ability. They just can't see what's on the other side of the door. It's a shame to see such easily achieved potential go untapped. But it is understandable. There are also plenty of plateaued skiers who need a lot of work to get to the next level. For many of those, the effort of time and money to get to the next level is not worth it. If you are happy with your skiing, there's no need to worry about what is possible.

 

But for me, one of the most exciting aspects of the sport is discovering new levels of performance and the opening up of more terrain that this brings.  It was easy to think that once I had started skiing double blacks with ease, that there wasn't much value to getting better. But getting better has given me more options on these slopes, let me ski them faster, let me ski them in "unskiable" conditions (e.g. bottomless, solid ice, death cookies, breakable crust) and increased the length of my ski days in ways that I just could not imagine in my days before teaching. One of the unexpected pluses of teaching was finding that "boring, easy" slopes can now be entertaining too. Higher performance = more fun.

 

I spent 10 years after college exploring the Western US on vacations. I took a few lessons and was disappointed by all of them. I was happy with my skiing and thought that it was cheaper to improve by getting more time on snow (lift tickets) than through lessons (lessons + lift tickets). Looking back I can see the missed opportunities, but it also helps me understand the reasons some people don't desire lessons. I've been there. It takes a certain level of experience, curiosity and determination to break through this phase. For lots of perfectly good reasons some skiers make it and some don't. Life would be boring otherwise. For me, part of the thrill of getting better is sharing what I've learned with other skiers and riders and watching their reactions when they find the other side of the door. Alas, I never get the opportunity to help people who don't knock on the door.

post #80 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrizzledVeteran View Post


Would you please tell me whether the above statements are serious?
They read to me like a satire. That's why I'm asking.
You're suggesting that people are "experts" because they possess natural innate "expert" abilities. You're essentially suggesting that everyone who is better than you, is so because of native gifts and not because he or she worked on his/her skiing.
When you say you don't ski "by the book," you look even more like you're writing satire.
What do you think makes someone a better athlete? Do you value the work inherent in practicing fundamentals? Or do you think people are just "born great" and there's no chance to improve? Some 3d option, perhaps?

 

I do write in a satirical style, but am serious about the concepts. I have a feeling you take skiing much more seriously than I do. The slopes for me provide a fun, exhilarating escape on the weekend. I have nothing to prove and no real goals for technical excellence. Sometimes instruction takes the fun out of a sport and makes it hard work. I ski to get away from work. As another poster said, I am blissful in my ignorance.

 

The sports coaching industry is driven by the myth that enough hard work and training will make you as good as your role models. Hard work enables you to reach the limits of your natural ability, and there it ends, otherwise we would all be Tiger Woods, Michael Jordan or Joe Montana. Personal ego and industrial greed prevent the student or instructor ever being satisfied or admitting this is as good as it gets. There is always more money to spend on equipment, books, lessons, clothing, trips, seminars, coaching.......

 

If the student does not have the same natural ability as the instructor, he will never be as good, but admitting that doesn't feed the machine.

 

"OK Mr Wolf, you've had several lessons with me now and I think this is as good as you will get. You should save your money and go enjoy the mountain with the skill sets you have. Striving for more will just cause you frustration and be a waste of your time and money. May I also suggest that you do not need to buy more expensive equipment as you will never benefit from it at your level. If you would like to look better, I would be happy to sell you a new jacket".

post #81 of 104
^^^^ I don't completely agree with everything you say, Wolf, but you are funny and sane. smile.gif
post #82 of 104

Most skiers spend 5-10 days a year on the mountain and are there to have fun.  With modern equipment and grooming it is very possible to get down the hill alive and with a small thrill to cherish, while possessing no technical skills.  The skiers here on Epic are pretty fanatical and may not see this.  Why would the average skier take lessons if he or she is already meeting his goals of 1. fun 2. thrill 3. survival and 4. socializing.  How many people are motivated to work so hard on a sport in which they just occasionally dabble?  Especially when they've already spent so much cash by the time they're considering a lesson.

 

I don't see it this way, but I think this is why many avoid lessons.


Edited by hirustler - 11/12/12 at 7:32pm
post #83 of 104

Here's the thing, the idea of getting a lesson vs. hitting the slopes with your friends is not a fun proposition.  So time is a major factor.  I wanted to get an advanced lesson last year because while I'm perfectly comfortable in expert terrain and can always have a lot of fun, I know I have some flaws that need to be addressed and they're holding me back, but most of the days I had to ski last year were with friends so it just never happened.  This year I intend to double the number of ski days from 20+ to 40+ and there will be much more time for this to happen, and I intend to get those lessons.  But I don't regret *not* forcing the issue last year.

 

For someone who only skis several days a year, I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to "waste" one getting a lesson.

post #84 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

 

For someone who only skis several days a year, I can totally understand why they wouldn't want to "waste" one getting a lesson.

Another way to look at it for someone who only gets to ski several days a year, is that maybe a lesson could help them "maximize" it th_dunno-1[1].gif.

post #85 of 104

^^ Sure, but I think you're missing the friends aspect of what I said.  "Sorry guys - I'll see you later I'm off to get a lesson."  That's very likely not going to happen for most people, especially if they only ski for a few days per year.

post #86 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by JayT View Post

^^ Sure, but I think you're missing the friends aspect of what I said.  "Sorry guys - I'll see you later I'm off to get a lesson."  That's very likely not going to happen for most people, especially if they only ski for a few days per year.

Better yet, have your friends join in.

beercheer.gif

post #87 of 104
Quote:

 I noticed that Berta could somehow keep up with me even on blue or black terrain when I was carving rounded turns

 

As 20+ year instructor myself I have to question why you were leading at a speed that Berta had to ski faster and out of her comfort zone so that her skiing reverted from what you had been working on.

post #88 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4ster View Post

Better yet, have your friends join in.

beercheer.gif

 

It was mentioned once or twice but convincing someone else to shell out an extra $100 or whatever isn't always easy.  I should have pushed harder on the "it's a powder day and we can skip the lines" angle.  But for someone who is an intermediate and not comfortable / skilled enough to go all over the mountain I could see the idea that taking a lesson could maximize the rest of their time since they'd have so many more options.  I think we can all remember how great it was to make that jump.

post #89 of 104

Here's another twist. 

 

How many times have you been on a chair lift with friends who notice, and comment, that you've improved since taking lessons.  Then they follow up that they don't "need" lessons because they read about technique or ski with friends who give them really good tips on skiing? 

 

Tips from "qualified" friends is great, but a lesson is so much more focused. 

post #90 of 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trekchick View Post

Here's another twist. 

 

How many times have you been on a chair lift with friends who notice, and comment, that you've improved since taking lessons.  Then they follow up that they don't "need" lessons because they read about technique or ski with friends who give them really good tips on skiing? 

 

Tips from "qualified" friends is great, but a lesson is so much more focused. 

 

I don't know, I think it depends on the situation.  When I first got back into skiing I went out with my cousin who is a very good skier, and he was working with me on my technique, especially on bumps, pole plant timing, upper body position, etc.  I also spent much of the day following right behind him, which was very helpful.  It wasn't a formal lesson but I definitely consider the experience to be a lesson because he was actively helping me improve.

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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Ski Instruction & Coaching › Do some people not desire/seek lessons?