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Carving and knee pointing

post #1 of 6
Thread Starter 

Good or Bad?


K2 001.jpg

post #2 of 6
Looks pretty bent to me... knees don't work that way - they only hinge. Outside leg is too bent to sustain real G-forces. How does he handle G-force when his center of mass is on the wrong side of his ski-arc ?? I'd expect his hips to be on the other side of the gate. Generally a badly twisted position. Some coiling is good at the end of a turn... but this looks out of sync. Go to '' for a better technique theory.
post #3 of 6
Thread Starter 

I agree with you. It doesent look like a very strong position. But maybe its sufficient enough because there are no big G forces to talk of in this particular example? He is clearly tipping his skis on their edges using femur rotation. Pointing the knees. You are correct, there is coiling at the end of the turn if the skier keeps his torso facing down the fall line.


Here is the same skier at the previous gate:


K2 002.jpg

post #4 of 6

The shoulder rotation is interesting, I would like to point out that the shoulders are turned into the turn in both photos and the inside hand drops down and aft. Considering the gates are consecutive it seems on the surface that the big upper body rotary is the primary rotary force being used. Is that happening as a result of trying to block the gate with the outside hand? Probably. Although it's also worth noting that in the first photo the pelvis doesn't appear to have moved forward along with the shoulders. So while I wouldn't say they are aft, the shoulders are certainly ahead of the pelvis and this is contributing to the odd looking position with the skis facing the outside of the turn while the skier's shoulders and torso are facing the inside. All that being said those two photos are split seconds in time and a more comprehensive discussion of the skier's technique would have to include more than these two photos.

BTW TDK, who is that guy? Does he always turn the shoulders that much and what is the tactical advantage of doing that?

post #5 of 6

These pictures are interesting as it points out how hard it is to analyze from still pictures. Although it looks like upper body rotation. It would be great to see a video of the whole run. the second picture the terrain looks a little flat. Sometimes in the excitement of a run the athlete is so focused on picturing the form of running the gates at high speed, he misses the mark oon the slower flatter turns. The interaction of balance, edging, rotation and position need to reflect the conditions the skis are seeing.  i.e. if he has to much edge it will affect his turn and he may have just overcompensated at that gate. If the question is 'is this position in the first picture a test book good turn?" I would say no, but there are just no perfect methods to analyze a dynamic event from a static picture. Usually a coach seeing a picture will have more context around it as in what the snow condition were, and maybe is very familiar with the skiing ability of his racer.

post #6 of 6

Actually the rotated shoulders suggest a few things. First is he's developing rotary forces with his upper body. I've seen this preceed a stivot but the information we have is we're looking at consecutive gates and it's present in both photos. So while it's diificult to draw many conclusions about why he uses that move, it's certainly there. Punching the gate with the outside hand tends to cause this when the skier reaches too far with the hand and pulls the outside shoulder forward. Imagine what would occur if the skier didn't reach out so far and simply allowed the gate to strike the pole. That small hand discipline refinement would totally change the torso position. Considering that the pelvis isn't as rotated as much in the two photos, getting the shoulders squarer to the pelvis would make his knee steering more effective. I suspect someone showed him the shoulder twist as a way to create a countered stance, or he's been struck by a gate and made an adjustment so he won't get struck by a gate again. Ask anyone that has been smacked in the clavicle by a gate, it really hurts. That's why you see all the body armor on Slalom racers.

Beyond that I actually like how he uses his knees. Cleaning up the excessive upper body movements is I where I would start and from there we would obviously need to work on developing sufficient turning forces in the legs.

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