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Apex ski boot - Page 9

post #241 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

I think there will be quite a few pairs at World Cup Competitions...but in the crowds ;). But seriously since there is no longer a Salomon SX92 around anymore , there is still a market for a comfortable boot for the recreational skier. 


I was at Camelback the other day. A group of 7 retirees walked by in the lodge and I counted 5 pair of Salomon rear entry boots still in use. Of course I saw a pair of K2 244mids from the 70's being used too.

post #242 of 283

I

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mtn Missy View Post
 

Hey Seth- I have a question.... are these boots alpine only?  Do they have any shell attachments for Alpine Touring capacity (backcountry skinning, etc)?

Thanks for your help-

Missy

 

Not that I'm aware of. I do a lot of trekking into the side/back country using the boots only out of their exoskeletons. I don't go too far off the grid and rely on Kat's or Heli's for the really remote stuff anyway.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IrekJanek View Post
 

At this point I would say that if nothing else Apex created a lot of chatter, but until you see them at a world cup competition or Olympics I don't see the hard core skiers buying into it, no matter how many experts say that it is a high performance boot.

 

Lots of chatter? Maybe on ski forum here or there. I would roughly guess the amount of skiers who participate in a ski forum at less than 10%. That's probably being generous and more around less than 5%. I spent 6 days on the slopes at Jackson Hole last week. I saw one other pair of Apex's the entire time and every person I rode a Gondola with had never heard of them and were really intrigued and interested. People remarked how they would love to have the comfort and versatility yet have the performance capability to plow down a hill such as JH. (It was also nice to blaze up the Headwall hike twice as fast as my conventional boot counterparts.) 

 

To suggest something isn't legit because it doesn't have an endorsement deal is flat out silly. I would hope "Hard core" skiers would be a lot smarter than the flock of regular consumers that are herded into brands with heavy endorsement deals and advertising. Heck, the hard core guys I know are heavy mod and DIY guys anyway. 

post #243 of 283
Wonder if they're my old 244 Mids? Think I sold them at a swap around 1985.
post #244 of 283

I've only seen one pair — on a guy in the lift line at Sunapee.  He was head-to-toe Arc'teryx, with a fancy Arc'teryx over-one-shoulder backpack and new skis, the brand of which I couldn't see — wide, white twin-tips.  Saw him later on Upper Blastoff, a fun but unchallenging black, intermediating his way over the rollers.  Not great advertising, but I suppose it's unfair to draw conclusions.

post #245 of 283

I tried to demo them at Copper Mountain.  On their device my feet measured 26(every other device measures them at 25.5) so they wanted to put me in their size 26.  Apparently they only had one size 26 and it was out.  I asked to try a 25 and they flatly refused to even let me try it on.  Are you kidding?  I came back about an hour later and the 26 was either still out or out again.  I don't think I want to deal with someone who decides for me what size boot I need and won't let me at least try to get my foot in a smaller size.

post #246 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by lakespapa View Post
 

I've only seen one pair — on a guy in the lift line at Sunapee.  He was head-to-toe Arc'teryx, with a fancy Arc'teryx over-one-shoulder backpack and new skis, the brand of which I couldn't see — wide, white twin-tips.  Saw him later on Upper Blastoff, a fun but unchallenging black, intermediating his way over the rollers.  Not great advertising, but I suppose it's unfair to draw conclusions.


But, did he have THIS?!

post #247 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SethTheWineGuy View Post
 


But, did he have THIS?!


No, but I imagine he will next time.

post #248 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post
 

I think there will be quite a few pairs at World Cup Competitions...but in the crowds ;). But seriously since there is no longer a Salomon SX92 around anymore , there is still a market for a comfortable boot for the recreational skier. 

Absolutely. If I could afford them as my 2nd pair, I probably would get them to for an easy family day on blue trails.

post #249 of 283

I think it's also a good training boot since it allows you to actually flex the boot forward. Beyond just feeling you shin against the tongue of the boot, you can actually deform the plastic to get your body forward- a real common problem when learning ski balance.Hey this yet another way to segment the market beyond men and women's boots and skis(remember when skis were not gender specific.?) Now we can have learning boots. As a benefit you can rent one set of boots and try both sports-snowboard and ski. I do not see why all ski resorts have not switched to this boot.

post #250 of 283

^^^ that or people could stop getting the stiffest boots on the market and ski in boots that they can actually flex. I have to say that the Fischer Vacuum (any model) is a tremendous boot as the flex pattern changes the least from warm to cold of any boot I've worn. The idea that stiffer is better only works to a point. If you can't flex the boot you are in, the skis and boots are skiing you, not the other way around.

post #251 of 283

Funny, I have the same boots and had the same thing happen to me.  Same boot, too.  No impact, it just tore.  I called Apex and they are more than happy to make repairs. Since they're local, I will take them by later this spring.  BTW, I tried using silicone sealer to re-attach and it didn't work.  There is a 3M product used in automotive that could work if you don't want to send them in.  Ask the counter guy about 3M "black death".

 

The newer boots do NOT have this same setup.  This banding is just meant to protect the user as carbon fiber can be pretty sharp.

post #252 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by IrekJanek View Post
 

At this point I would say that if nothing else Apex created a lot of chatter, but until you see them at a world cup competition or Olympics I don't see the hard core skiers buying into it, no matter how many experts say that it is a high performance boot.


I would want to define "hard core".  If you're talking Bode Miller or Lindsey Vonn, no they probably wouldn't wear these on race day.  But I would bet even they wear different boots when they're out skiing for pleasure.  And how many of us are really THAT hard core all the time?  5%?  10%?  The market for those people is already pretty well taken care of.  These boots aren't just for "older" people, nor are they for people with foot problems.  True, they address issues those 2 groups have, but they should ski just fine for most of the rest as indicated by people who have been skiing a long time and have actually tried them. 

post #253 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by SethTheWineGuy View Post
 

I

 

Not that I'm aware of. I do a lot of trekking into the side/back country using the boots only out of their exoskeletons. I don't go too far off the grid and rely on Kat's or Heli's for the really remote stuff anyway.

 

Lots of chatter? Maybe on ski forum here or there. I would roughly guess the amount of skiers who participate in a ski forum at less than 10%. That's probably being generous and more around less than 5%. I spent 6 days on the slopes at Jackson Hole last week. I saw one other pair of Apex's the entire time and every person I rode a Gondola with had never heard of them and were really intrigued and interested. People remarked how they would love to have the comfort and versatility yet have the performance capability to plow down a hill such as JH. (It was also nice to blaze up the Headwall hike twice as fast as my conventional boot counterparts.) 

 

To suggest something isn't legit because it doesn't have an endorsement deal is flat out silly. I would hope "Hard core" skiers would be a lot smarter than the flock of regular consumers that are herded into brands with heavy endorsement deals and advertising. Heck, the hard core guys I know are heavy mod and DIY guys anyway. 


Was skiing last weekend at Winter Park.  I sat down at the patio to put on the skeletons.  There were a couple of older boarders at the next table and they couldn't stop staring at the boots.  We started talking and they both indicated that they quit skiing and moved over to boarding because of their old boots.  They were more than interested in trying Apex because they both preferred skiing to boarding.

post #254 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

I tried to demo them at Copper Mountain.  On their device my feet measured 26(every other device measures them at 25.5) so they wanted to put me in their size 26.  Apparently they only had one size 26 and it was out.  I asked to try a 25 and they flatly refused to even let me try it on.  Are you kidding?  I came back about an hour later and the 26 was either still out or out again.  After talking to Phil and TC about them the next morning I decided to not waste any more time on them.  I don't think I want to deal with someone who decides for me what size boot I need and won't let me at least try to get my foot in a smaller size.


You already deal with bootfitters that decide what size boot you need.  No, you definitely do not want to go to a smaller size with these boots.  Choose your size or the next size up if you're a half size.  "try to get my foot in a smaller size" is probably the biggest problem with "normal" boots!  We've been cramming our feet into boots that are too small for WAY too long!  Would you accept that in a work boot?  "Hey!  I don't have your size in these Red Wings, but try a pair that's a size smaller!"  And then spend all day on your feet on the jobsite and tell me how your feet feel.  You wouldn't stand for it.  Pun intended.

post #255 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondguy View Post
 


You already deal with bootfitters that decide what size boot you need.  No, you definitely do not want to go to a smaller size with these boots.  Choose your size or the next size up if you're a half size.  "try to get my foot in a smaller size" is probably the biggest problem with "normal" boots!  We've been cramming our feet into boots that are too small for WAY too long!  Would you accept that in a work boot?  "Hey!  I don't have your size in these Red Wings, but try a pair that's a size smaller!"  And then spend all day on your feet on the jobsite and tell me how your feet feel.  You wouldn't stand for it.  Pun intended.

 

People usually have traditional boots that are too big by a shell size. I did. This is from experience in working in a ski shop with three high quality boot fitters. I am usually adjusting bindings on existing skis for customers that have new boots that are a smaller size. Never larger, rarely the same.

 

Boots just don't work well when they are too big. Slop, loss of contact, friction from movement in the boot all contribute to problems in comfort and control. Boots that are the right size may not fit exactly right without adjustments, but they will ski better and can be made to fit comfortably. I won't get into the virtues of Fischer's Vacuum line of boots, but they made my skiing a lot more comfortable and added performance of boots that were a shell size too big (my choice, not a boot fitter').

post #256 of 283
Pondguy, are you working for apex?
Since you joined a few months ago, all your posts are for apex boots?

Ok if you do, but if you haven't disclosed out, that's really bogus.
post #257 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondguy View Post
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by mtcyclist View Post
 

I tried to demo them at Copper Mountain.  On their device my feet measured 26(every other device measures them at 25.5) so they wanted to put me in their size 26.  Apparently they only had one size 26 and it was out.  I asked to try a 25 and they flatly refused to even let me try it on.  Are you kidding?  I came back about an hour later and the 26 was either still out or out again.  After talking to Phil and TC about them the next morning I decided to not waste any more time on them.  I don't think I want to deal with someone who decides for me what size boot I need and won't let me at least try to get my foot in a smaller size.


You already deal with bootfitters that decide what size boot you need.  No, you definitely do not want to go to a smaller size with these boots.  Choose your size or the next size up if you're a half size.  "try to get my foot in a smaller size" is probably the biggest problem with "normal" boots!  We've been cramming our feet into boots that are too small for WAY too long!  Would you accept that in a work boot?  "Hey!  I don't have your size in these Red Wings, but try a pair that's a size smaller!"  And then spend all day on your feet on the jobsite and tell me how your feet feel.  You wouldn't stand for it.  Pun intended.

Lets not confuse "down sizing" with "right sizing" and the expected desire out of the boot fit, be it a recreational or high performance skier. 

post #258 of 283
Well if you go 1 size up from "your regular size" which could be 1 size too large already, you're now at 2 sizes above approriate. In an Apex. That's good because you could put the boots on in the dark or without looking. The left boot will fit on the right foot and vice versa. More options!
post #259 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondguy View Post


You already deal with bootfitters that decide what size boot you need.  No, you definitely do not want to go to a smaller size with these boots.  Choose your size or the next size up if you're a half size.  "try to get my foot in a smaller size" is probably the biggest problem with "normal" boots!  We've been cramming our feet into boots that are too small for WAY too long!  Would you accept that in a work boot?  "Hey!  I don't have your size in these Red Wings, but try a pair that's a size smaller!"  And then spend all day on your feet on the jobsite and tell me how your feet feel.  You wouldn't stand for it.  Pun intended.

I am a boot fitter. I know how I want boots to fit my feet. And comparing work boots to ski boots is just plain silly.
post #260 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

Pondguy, are you working for apex?
Since you joined a few months ago, all your posts are for apex boots?
 

:popcorn

post #261 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

Pondguy, are you working for apex?
Since you joined a few months ago, all your posts are for apex boots?

Ok if you do, but if you haven't disclosed out, that's really bogus.


I don't work for Apex, do you work for a company that makes the competition?  I've been a software engineer and IT project manager for over 30 years.  As for all my posts being about Apex, well, this thread IS about Apex.  I found it in doing some of my research before buying a pair.  I like them because they literally saved skiing for me.  If these didn't work, I was going to have to quit skiing or, shudder, convert to boarding.  I found a product that does what is advertised and I want to let others know about them. 

 

I've had 7 pairs of boots since I started skiing in 2003 - I've bought more boots than I have skis!  All were fitted by expert bootfitters here in Denver, Winter Park, Breckenridge, and Vail.  Everything but the Apex boots needed punching and stretching and grinding and modifications for this and for that and and custom this and custom that and electric and chemical foot warmers, all trying to get them to fit and keep my feet from freezing and the results were the same in ALL of them till now.  I could ski for a few hours a day at most then had to stop because I was in pain or had extremely cold feet and usually both.  I would have to make excuses for hot chocolate breaks in the lodge but in reality just wanted to unbuckle my boots.  Hell, I used to water ski for longer stretches than I could snow ski in any of my old boots.  And it seemed like I was in the bootshop more than I was on the slopes and in the case of my last set of boots, that's not an exaggeration.  The ONLY thing that is custom about my Apex boots are the footbeds.  I put them on in the shop and they fit without any work at all.  I have not had any pain in them.  I have not had a moment of cold feet - just the opposite since I now get proper blood flow and my feet stay warm the way they're supposed to.  I could wear these day in and day out as regular snow boots if I wanted.  Would you go out and shovel snow and chop wood in your hard shell ski boots?  And before you go there, I ski just about anything but bumps - my knees were shot in road running and on water skis long before learning to snow ski.  I would call myself more advanced than intermediate and I have not found any problems with these boots.  If anything, I have gotten better since I can spend longer on the slopes and I can think about skiing and not about my feet.  With Apex this season, I've skied first chair to last chair.  I would NEVER have been able to do that before.  I've skied Loveland Pass in these.  I just have to kick out of the skeletons leaving them in the bindings and hike the ridge then ski to the bottom.  My wife picks me up and takes me to the top and I do it again.  The last time I hiked that ridge in hard boots, it was agony.

 

So, yes, I support them and will continue to.  If you've tried them and they're not your cup of tea, fine.  No problem.  Tell us why and let's discuss that, it would be interesting.  But if you haven't tried them and ridicule them just because they're different, then you need to look deep inside yourself.  New things are always ridiculed at first and no one wants to hear the uninformed bitch.  Shaped skis were frowned upon by the masses for a long time.  Fat skis, narrow skis, rocker, wood core, metal core. The variety is there because EVERYONE is looking for something different.  Not everyone skis the same.

 

p.s.  there you go crgildart.  get a bag of popcorn for me, too!:newkeyboard:

post #262 of 283

^^^ To be fair, the question about employment by Apex was not inappropriate as this site gets plenty of spammers. Open disclosure is appreciated. Thanks for letting us know why you are so ardently posting about Apex. As one that has tried it, I understand and agree with all of your points about comfort and performance with the Apex as well as your likening them to shape skis in the '90s. I hope Apex makes it in the long run because they are a legitimate alternative to 'traditional' boots.

 

And for what it's worth, I have snowblowed in my alpine boots after a day of skiing. I have Walk-EZs which make them easy to walk in and my Fischer Vacuums are just that comfortable. :)

post #263 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by pondguy View Post
 

 

 

p.s.  there you go crgildart.  get a bag of popcorn for me, too!:newkeyboard:

:popcorn

Well there goes my Apex Boot discount hahahaha.  Seriously though we do get sock puppet company reps posting here from time to time. 

post #264 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post
 

Well there goes my Apex Boot discount hahahaha.  Seriously though we do get sock puppet company reps posting here from time to time. 


No worries.  I understand the concern.  Just an ardent snow skier with bad knees and, apparently, funny feet.  Something else to throw into the discussion about sizing...  How you fit hard shell boots is NOT how you fit Apex boots.  They're different so they need a different process and they WILL feel different.  So if the Apex bootfitter says don't downsize, then don't.  It's kinda like the guy on shaped skis using the same technique they used on straight skis.

post #265 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

Pondguy, are you working for apex?
Since you joined a few months ago, all your posts are for apex boots?

Ok if you do, but if you haven't disclosed out, that's really bogus.

Do you work for some other boot company? Because your posts all seem to bash these boots. I understand that people wonder if there are company reps posting bogusly on here, but would they actually admit it if you ask them?
post #266 of 283
No, I don't work for any boot company.

I just hate spammers.
post #267 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by rod9301 View Post

No, I don't work for any boot company.

I just hate spammers.


Cool, I understand.

 

Well, I'm going to go to REI to try these on tomorrow evening just to satisfy my curiosity. For those that do own them, I have a question regarding insoles. Normally in a traditional ski boot, I'm guessing one would be looking at one made for small volume like the Sole Thin Sport. However, it sounds like these boots may be better suited with the larger volume Sole Ed Viesturs Signature series insoles (I've attached links to the insoles). Any thoughts?

 

http://www.rei.com/product/798300/sole-thin-sport-custom-footbeds

 

http://www.rei.com/product/721632/sole-ed-viesturs-signature-series-custom-footbeds-high-volume#tab-description

post #268 of 283
Quote:
Originally Posted by quattro_S4 View Post
 


Cool, I understand.

 

Well, I'm going to go to REI to try these on tomorrow evening just to satisfy my curiosity. For those that do own them, I have a question regarding insoles. Normally in a traditional ski boot, I'm guessing one would be looking at one made for small volume like the Sole Thin Sport. However, it sounds like these boots may be better suited with the larger volume Sole Ed Viesturs Signature series insoles (I've attached links to the insoles). Any thoughts?

 

http://www.rei.com/product/798300/sole-thin-sport-custom-footbeds

 

http://www.rei.com/product/721632/sole-ed-viesturs-signature-series-custom-footbeds-high-volume#tab-description


The ones my bootfitter made are these - http://www.dfpsole.com/products-technology-for-feet/podium-custom-insoles-customize-to-fit-any-foot

These are not as stiff as the ones I've had in the past.

post #269 of 283

I've worked with DFP foodbeds as well as Instaprint.  I like Instaprint better for getting a true custom imprint

 

I'll be testing Apex boots today at Mammoth trade fair.  Will report back. 

post #270 of 283

I skied in these at Mammoth...review is upcoming. :popcorn

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