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Video Analysis

post #1 of 17
Thread Starter 

I recently took my level I PSIA exam and everything went well.  However the examiner said that if I wanted to get my level II certification he said be careful about tip lead.  And that you should only have a half a boot of tip lead max. I made 6 different points in the video and I will explain each part.

 

1:  This video is of me skiing about 3 months ago (back in December). I have changed a few things around, but I thought it might be useful to include some video of my old style of skiing.

 

2:  I have watched this video like 20x.  It's the number one youtube hit for the word "carving," and it's got about 1.5 million views.  I have seen it posted here but I just wanted to throw it out there to point out that this guy (MairKlaus) say's the way he carves (or the way he is teaching the audience to carve) is by using inside tip lead and standing up after each turn.  He goes into detail about it in his video, but I just included some short clips I felt were relevant to my issue.  (if you want to see the entire video go here -> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlzIkIQa3e0)

 

3: Finally we get to some recent skiing.  This is me about 3 days ago at timberline resort in WV.  This is where the video analysis starts.

 

4:  I take some long radius turns in this one and add a clip of what my ski's are doing while I am skiing.  (I have heard that filming your ski's is pretty pointless for a video analysis, but I thought I would include it anyways).

 

5:  Now I do some short radius turns and have the same little clip of what my ski's are doing.

                 -Caught an edge:  Probably could have taken this out, but you can't take yourself too seriously, so why not keep it biggrin.gif.

 

6: Does tip lead make you unbalanced?... best way to check .... ski moguls.  While going through them I felt in control and in the front seat all the way.

 

 

 

 

 

Also to note:  I have been told that I bend at the knees and hips too much, so maybe keep that in mind.

 

 

Thanks,

Vince

post #2 of 17

Vince, looks good, I would say the stuff from 3 months ago you were using up your whole range of motion at the beginning to middle of the turn and just hanging on to the end of the turn. Possibly this is where you were getting the "bend at the knees and hips too much". On your later videos it looks like you have toned that down a bit and have more of a range of movement of the 3 major joints (ankle, knee, femur). Could work an getting more out of your ankles ( can't we all) then use up the knee and femur movement as needed.I like the double camera approach for it shows you have a simultaneous turn entry on your skis. Tip lead can be helped by keeping your ankles (flexing/ extending) engaged and working by keeping slight pressure on the shin/ tongue of boot. Nice flow developing in your turns especially short turns and good bump run. Go for you L2

post #3 of 17

You park and ride. Sorry, but your skiing is the perfect definition of it.

There's tons written about how to deal with it here, but basically: Get your weight out on your outer ski and learn to balance on it. Tip the inner ski and the outer ski will follow. Increase the angles through the turn, don't stop tipping the skis as soon as they start to turn.

post #4 of 17

Vince,

 

Tip lead should reflect the angle that the hips and shoulders are relative to the direction of travel. To the extent that they aren't, balance will be challenged. Tip lead is generally a result vs a cause. I'd translate the caution you got into "you are creating countered body positions through rotation of the upper body vs letting countered positions develop by letting the lower body rotate more than the upper body. Pivot slips are a possible exam task at level 2. Stand on the kitchen floor in your socks and rotate your feet 90 degrees while keep your upper body still. That's tip lead. It isn't necessarily bad.

 

There is zero sum relationship between the ankles, knees and hips. You can't reduce/increase bend in one without reduce/increase in one or more of the others. I would translate the advice you got about too much knee and hip bend into use your ankles more. Easier said than done. A simple square balance board is the best ankle movement development device I've run across. On snow, the hop to shape drill (change direction in the air, land on new edges and try to carve the end of the turn) worked best for me for refining ankle movement. Two inch ankle hops (no preset down movement allowed, hop directly up only using the ankle) were the hardest drill to do, but took my skiing to another level.

 

I agree with Snow's observation that there is an element of park and ride in these turns. Passing L2 next season is doable, but stepping your performance up another notch would help a lot. Have you thought about going to Pro Jam in December? Where do you teach?

 

 

post #5 of 17

I really like that you included the shot of yourself and your skis while you caught that edge, because it showed exactly what happened:

 

  1. Your inside ski got too far ahead of you (look at 5:20-5:21).
  2. You weighted the inside ski while it was too far ahead (putting your weight on its tail).
  3. It shot out from under you and made for entertaining video. :)

 

That's a great demonstration of why you need to keep the inside ski pulled back.  I think of yarding on the thing with my hamstrings to pull it back, and find that when I do this strongly, my turns work much better.  That also puts you into a strong enough position to catch yourself and ride the inside ski if you have to because the outside ski gets knocked around or whatever.

 

I have no clue what your skiing should look like for a PSIA L2, so I'll keep my mouth shut on the rest of it.  I'm a little confused at why you're choosing instructional video based on youtube popularity, though.

post #6 of 17

I'll only speak to segment #4...

 

nice skis. wink.gif

post #7 of 17

Vincek,

 

Looks like you have fun skiing and that's the most important thing!

 

Rusty's advice is better than the examiner's. Tip lead is a symptom, not a cause. Your weight's falling over the inside ski - as you watch video it helps to ask yourself "could I lift my inside ski here?" (generally the answer is no.) So your outside ski falls behind. But a bigger consequence is you're throwing your body down the hill to make a transition in order to get off the inside ski/edge. I would suggest some bracquage in a low position to fix, along with some "bend and stretch" or avalement - taking your time to laterally and staying really flexed through transition. Bracquage will also help you to remove hip rotation. 

 

Personally, I'd set carving aside for now as a goal and come back to it once the balance issues are resolved. I don't know the PSIA system, but rotation disqualifies people from the CSIA level 2. Curiously, I thought your bump skiing was far better than your groomer skiing! You can still see in the bumps that you're over your inside ski tho (eg 5:31) as your outside ski is tipped way up and your inside is down. You can also see hip rotation. 

 

Really, you make skiing look fun. There's a lot of good stuff going on there, like good flexion and extension, and your skiing will look great with just a couple of developments. 

 

Best of luck! 

 

edit: sofa ski school guy is riding on his inside ski. you can see him do a eurocarve. sure, that's fun, but it doesn't meet our level 2 standard anyway. 

post #8 of 17
Thread Starter 

Snowbowler:

I think the older stuff is me trying to fool around with that inside ski.  I have been pretty much been a self taught all the way up until this year (it’s my first year teaching).  So a couple of seasons ago I skied only on that outside ski.  Last season I had a crazy wide stance and skied only on that inside ski (ice was a nightmare).  And now this season I am trying to get back into neutral.  When I was younger I had a really stiff stance, very little bend, and this caused a lot of back seat action.  So maybe that’s maybe I tend to curl up… I don’t know.  But I have been told by other ski instructors that even in recent shots of this video I need a taller stance.

If I do go for my level II next season it will probably only be the skiing part of it, and then take the teaching the next year.  But who knows… I actually taught synchronized skiing for my level I lol.. and that’s not a very level I kind of task.

 

Carl R:

I have never heard of the term “park and ride,” but I will definitely look into it.  I can see that in the video.  Whenever I do long radius turns I tend to just turn the tips and then wait until I have to turn them again to make the next turn. Thanks for the input.

 

TheRusty

Good stuff here.  Before I did my level 1 I actually trained for it (little did I realize no one else in my group did and the examiner gave us all the instructions we needed).  I got a copy of a DVD that has all the level I, II, and III exam tasks.  So I have actually done the pivot slips a little.  The way that I tried to approach it was to stare at one spot and try to keep your upper body pointed there while your lower body is working.  Take a look at this picture. 

Untitled.png

In this picture I am trying to keep my body positioned on one spot... maybe I am just keeping my head in one spot and then moving everything else?  Is that why there is still some upper body movement?

This is the comment I am trying to get at, “you are creating countered body positions through rotation of the upper body vs letting countered positions develop by letting the lower body rotate more than the upper body.” 

I would like to go to the pro jam, but I think it’s going to happen right in the middle of my college finals.  So I doubt I will go to it.  This is my first year teaching at Seven Springs, so I still have a lot to learn about the teaching side of the level II (that’s why I might split it up into 2 years… first year skiing, next year teaching).  However, we do have an examiner on staff here.  He is very good, but lots of people show up for his training, so he isn’t going to sit there and critique everything you do.  Unless you don’t have something specific to ask him, he will go through different drills and things he may have planned out for the clinic… but then again those drills might fix the problem without even having to ask him anything.

 

DanBoisvert:

I was about to get rid of that little slip up, but I am glad I kept it.  About the YouTube video: I like the carving turns in the video so I “tried” to do that in the 1st segment, how I skied 3 months ago.  I look nothing like that, but I was trying to imitate the large stance and the heavy usage of the inside ski.  

 

Noodler:

Thanks, I am actually looking into getting new skis, do you have any suggestions?  I was looking at the post about the blizzard bushwacker skis… they look like something good for my area.  Not great powder or tree skis, but good on groomers and in the bumps.

 

Metaphor_:

Ahh yes… the old good news - bad news - good news.  Always keep it positive on both ends.. Always a favorite of mine.

I was actually skiing with a member (or former member, not quite sure) of the CSIA during the Blue Knob GTG here on epicski.  And he was saying a lot of the same things that you’re telling me.  I am glad you liked my mogul skiing… moguls aren’t a big thing in the level II exam, but being good at them helps.  Not saying I am all that great at them… but I can get at least some rhythm in them.  

 

post #9 of 17

Actually, just before you caught an edge, I though was the best skiing of the video...probably because the somewhat 'less than groomed' terrain woke you up.  Also, that was decent, competent, journeyman instructor bump skiing (that could get a lot better, of course).

 

I didn't see any tip lead, or at least, it's not the most problematic part of your skiing.  Tip lead is a symptom, after all, and not a sickness.  And being told to reduce it isn't really very useful instruction.  If more dynamic carving is the key to the level 2 (is it?) I think, like others have said you need to get more of your balance on the downhill ski through the whole turn (and pressure those tips).  You'll get a number of prescriptions for achieving that goal-the early weight/ balance shift off the old stance ski and early tipping into the turn (while pulling back the new, light free-foot) or you'll get the KLaus maier get low, get powerful, drive the knees through the carve type advice.  Different folks will swear by either, and probably add a few remedies as well.  You'll need to dabble with both and figure out what works for you.

 

I suspect you just not that into carving-you use your edges, but just enough to make the skis turn.  Mostly, Flexing (bending the knees) is what is missing from your skiing (and it's a lot easier to address than the nebulous 'too much tip lead' problem).  But in your later sequences, you had more flexing-which is good, than the early segments.   Flex the inside leg more through the turn as you tip the skis progressively on edge.  And, flex to release the old stance ski as you transition from turn to turn.  This will add some dynamism and edge angle to your carving, and make for more seamless links between turns.  Plus, it will translate nicely into improving your bumps skiing as well (which is woefully lacking any helpful flexing).  That's my advice--and I know it's what my skiing needs more of as well..

 

Liam

post #10 of 17

Your skiing needs a lot of work, but your camera man is outstanding!wink.gif

post #11 of 17
Thread Starter 

Ok, so this is my last weekend skiing.  So I would like to try and fix some of these issues.  I know it takes a lot more than one weekend to fix them all, but it would be good to just go through and pick out the level II red flag ones.

 

(Correct me if I am wrong about any of these... which I probably will be on a most of them tongue.gif)

 

Problems:

bend at the knees and hips too much

park and ride

upper body rotation/ hip rotation

heavy on the inside ski causing tip lead... possibly pressure control stuff here.

   - leaning over the inside ski.

 

Solutions

bend at the knees and hips too much: stand taller and don't bend at your knees and waist so much.  Try to push your feet to the top of your boot to get some ankle flexing going on.

 

park and ride: use the outside ski more? ... I am not quite sure what do with this one, it sounds like good advice, but I thought you were supposed to ski 50-50... maybe that's why I have tip

lead... to much on the inside?

 

upper body rotation / hip rotation: possibly try the "keep your upper body in one position and work everything else."  Maybe try to ski a little more like I ski moguls, more rotary in the legs. I kind of feel like that's what I am doing now... any other solutions?

 

Heavy on the inside ski causing tip lead: I think this is one of the biggest things that is causing my tip lead, I am using that inside ski way to much.  Should I only use it during transitions and then just let the outside do the work of the turn?  Also leaning over the inside ski... should I try to swing my legs out further... even further than in the picture?

 

 

Thank you everyone who gave me some advice.

 

 

note: I think I got the answer I was looking for on the Ski Sofa School video from Metaphor_.  It sounds like the guys style of skiing is cool, but isn't going to go over well if I skied like that in a level II exam... so the verdict, don't ski like that.

 

 

post #12 of 17



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesj View Post

Your skiing needs a lot of work, but your camera man is outstanding!wink.gif



HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAA

Your skiing is getting realy good Vince...!!

O ya need to add get that camra guy of yourse to spend a few sheckles and send you out to the Gathering. tell him early xmass for next year or maybe try .. hey dad you know its not toooo late to try to buy my love!!! that gets them every time

 

post #13 of 17

To be honest, your skiing is not so bad. If you really want to see a significant improvement in a short period of time, and be left with some ideas to work with over the off-season, hire a coach.  Insist on a level 3 instructor that can coach an advanced skier, set some objectives in terms of whether you want to focus on balance and technique, or terrain and conditions type goals.  Your coach can much better evaluate your skiing than we can over the video, and recommend drills and exercises that will quickly overcome issues and help you get a better feel for effectively using your body and equipment to get the results you want. 

 

I'm disappointed that your post here did not attract more attention from the pros who frequent the forum. Rusty offered some good suggestions.  Like most sports, the nuances of issues that separate good skiing from great skiing are subtle, and best worked out between yourself and a qualified coach.  If you are interested in joining the ski school, mention that.  The clinics available to most instructors are great for refining skiing and preparing for exams.

 


Edited by Cirquerider - 3/25/11 at 11:04am
post #14 of 17

To my eye, your skiing does resemble Klaus', but not sure that will impress PSIA examiners.

 

What I see is that your outside ski is NOT driving across the hilll in the bottom of the turn, its rather static until

start of the next turn. It lags behind.  **ideally**, this doesnt happen

 

But if it does, drive  your foot/knee/ski across the hill to catch up with the inside ski. 

 

While we dont ski to a form or aeshetic, if you watch really good skiers making these types of turns,

some part of their body is always moving (ie not just the skier changing directions, moving downhill)

 

post #15 of 17
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cirquerider View Post

To be honest, your skiing is not so bad. If you really want to see a significant improvement in a short period of time, and be left with some ideas to work with over the off-season, hire a coach.  Insist on a level 3 instructor that can coach an advanced skier, set some objectives in terms of whether you want to focus on balance and technique, or terrain and conditions type goals.  Your coach can much better evaluate your skiing than we can over the video, and recommend drills and exercises that will quickly overcome issues and help you get a better feel for effectively using your body and equipment to get the results you want. 

 

I'm disappointed that your post here did not attract more attention from the pros who frequent the forum. Rusty offered some good suggestions.  Like most sports, the nuances of issues that separate good skiing from great skiing are subtle, and best worked out between yourself and a qualified coach.  If you are interested in joining the ski school, mention that.  The clinics available to most instructors are great for refining skiing and preparing for exams.

 


I think your right, I should get someone to be there with me for like an hour to watch me ski.  And I have done that with some level III instructors and the examiner that is on staff at seven springs.  However, I rarely get the change to be alone with them and just do some one on one free skiing.  So if I go to a clinic having something specific I want to work on or something specific I want them to look at they can help me a lot more.  I am just very open to suggestions and ideas about how to improve my skiing.  I think the title could have been, "Will I pass a Level II exam and if not what do I have to improve to get there?" Because that's what I am trying to get at here.  
It would be nice to get some of the pro's here on epic to comment on my video smile.gif

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post

To my eye, your skiing does resemble Klaus', but not sure that will impress PSIA examiners.

 

What I see is that your outside ski is NOT driving across the hilll in the bottom of the turn, its rather static until

start of the next turn. It lags behind.  **ideally**, this doesnt happen

 

But if it does, drive  your foot/knee/ski across the hill to catch up with the inside ski. 

 

While we dont ski to a form or aeshetic, if you watch really good skiers making these types of turns,

some part of their body is always moving (ie not just the skier changing directions, moving downhill)

 

 

You know I have heard of that... bring your outside ski to match your inside.  But I actually heard to told the opposite way.  To bring your inside ski to your match your outside ski.  Because the inside ski is leading if I push the outside ski up and in front of me where the inside is I will fall into the backseat.

 

I feel that is more of a recovery move than a solution though... still good to know.  But it's like when you get in the backseat in the moguls you pull your feet underneath your body, instead of trying to move your body over your feet.

 

I think the problem is that I am moving my hips or something to make it difficult to match the two skis... still trying to figure that one out lol.

 

 

post #16 of 17

Kid, your so far ahead of most of the L2 I have seen stop worrying. Take the skiing L2, yes it is good to work on improving and you have been given some stuff to think about plus you have a good idea what you should be doing. To challenge yourself ski the nastiest stuff you can find,the stuff nobody ever goes on, ski it as slow as you can. Get your L3's and examiner out and try to keep up with them, follow them turn for turn. If you can't keep up have them watch you and get suggestions.Make sure your teaching is up to L2 standards, keep it relevant, fresh and fun. If you want some help come up to Vermont I'll be glad to ski with you , I have a friend who is on the ETS and I'm sure he would help also. You look like someone who would be fun to ski with. Come on up, Killington, Stowe, Sugarbush all have great spring skiing we can rip it up.PM me if you are interested.

post #17 of 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by docbrad66 View Post

To my eye, your skiing does resemble Klaus', but not sure that will impress PSIA examiners.

 

What I see is that your outside ski is NOT driving across the hilll in the bottom of the turn, its rather static until

start of the next turn. It lags behind.  **ideally**, this doesnt happen

 

But if it does, drive  your foot/knee/ski across the hill to catch up with the inside ski. 

 

While we dont ski to a form or aeshetic, if you watch really good skiers making these types of turns,

some part of their body is always moving (ie not just the skier changing directions, moving downhill)

 

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by VinceK View Post

 

You know I have heard of that... bring your outside ski to match your inside.  But I actually heard to told the opposite way.  To bring your inside ski to your match your outside ski.  Because the inside ski is leading if I push the outside ski up and in front of me where the inside is I will fall into the backseat.

 

I feel that is more of a recovery move than a solution though... still good to know.  But it's like when you get in the backseat in the moguls you pull your feet underneath your body, instead of trying to move your body over your feet.

 

I think the problem is that I am moving my hips or something to make it difficult to match the two skis... still trying to figure that one out lol.

 

 


If you pull your inside ski back to match your outside ski, you usually end up with a tighter turn and the outside ski is still static.

 

If you push the outside ski forward, you usually stop prior to the skis being even.  I've never had this push me into the back seat.  You will definitely feel the "drive".  To me, this move is like skating and even if I'm not going faster, it sure does feel that way.  I usually do this when I'm chasing someone (i.e my daughter) and sometimes when racing.

 

Ken

 

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