EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › Ski Training and Pro Forums › Fitness, Health, Nutrition, Injury, and Recovery › Anyone had MSC (aka Regenexx) done to knee and ski'd to tell about it?
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Anyone had MSC (aka Regenexx) done to knee and ski'd to tell about it? - Page 5

post #121 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finndog View Post
 

WOW!  Dude, no idea but I hope your stuff is 4x better than mine!  I do injections 3x every 6 months. 


I think I'm getting taken for a ride, here.  Your injections run $450 per cycle (3x) ever 6 months and you total cost per cycle is $75.

 

My injections cost $2K per cycle for 3 injections. 

 

I doubt it's any different from what you are getting.  Orthovisc is also bioengineered.  It's Synvisc that is made from chicken parts. 

 

Finn, you find it's helping?  Does the benefit start to wear out towards the end of the 6 months?

 

thanks, mate!

 

David

post #122 of 140

Four years ago, three injections in each knee cost me about $1200 out of pocket and the rest was covered by insurance. I don't remember exactly what the total was but I think it was at least $2400.

Last year I got one Synvisc in each knee and insurance covered everything.

post #123 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuma View Post
 


I think I'm getting taken for a ride, here.  Your injections run $450 per cycle (3x) ever 6 months and you total cost per cycle is $75.

 

My injections cost $2K per cycle for 3 injections. 

 

I doubt it's any different from what you are getting.  Orthovisc is also bioengineered.  It's Synvisc that is made from chicken parts. 

 

Finn, you find it's helping?  Does the benefit start to wear out towards the end of the 6 months?

 

thanks, mate!

 

David

 

It does but since each person's situation is unique, YMMV.  In my case it turned out that the vast majority of pain was hip related.(despite the grade 4 chondro)  I would suggest that anyone with knee issues investigate the possibilities of hip related issues.  I will do another series in December BTW

post #124 of 140

I related my wife's experience with Regenexx-C back in 6/2014:

 

This was our experience with Regenexx-C:

 

My wife and I are avid mogul skiers, and I have been all my life. We have been going to mogul camp summers in Whistler for ten years, for example. We try to get 75 days in per season. We don't go skiing to socialize, we go skiing to ski thousands of feet of moguls per excursion.

 

My wife was injured in 2012. She could not ski, and walked with a limp. Our former orthopaedic surgeon advised her that her cartilege was gone and it was time for a TKR.  I called B.S. on that, got on the web and honed my research down to Regenexx-C.

 

We are both in our mid-sixties.

 

The procedure took place in August in Cayman.

 

My wife is also very dedicated to following through with "therapy" and exercise. In other words, we are in shape. We both work out on a mini-trampoline daily.

 

This winter, we were back in the bumps, racing duals (I brake a bit so we stay even), the whole nine yards. She no longer limps.

 

She considers herself 100% cured,

 

That's our experience. In our opinion, anyone who has similar issues (cartilege defeciency) and gets a TKR, and has the means, and does not first at least give Regenexx-C a shot is an idiot,

 

We have not received compensation in any form from Regenexx and actually have not communicated with them much at all except seeking advice on whether she should get a knee brace (she should, it's added protection and wearing one knee brace does not interfere with mogul skiing technique, which is of course one knee always tucked into the "pocket" of the other knee, i.e., feet clamped together.

 

Anyone who doubts any of this can come up and watch. I felt compelled to share our story for the good of the skiing community.

 

The update is everything is just fine, We couldn't ski a whole lot last year but we went to Bachelor for a week, skied the bumps like always, we jump on a trampoline as part of our exercise regimen every day. Good luck to all.    

post #125 of 140

I have bone on bone on my left knee which sounds similar to yours my doctor keeps saying TKR which I have been putting off, when I walk my left leg no longer wants to  move correctly, so my question is ; is this what yours felt like and is Regenxx stem cell treatment still working,  if you could email me at youngatheart5376@hotmail.com

Your answer may determine what I might do.

Thanks

Darrell

youngatheart5376@hotmail.com

post #126 of 140

I have bone on bone on my left knee which sounds similar to yours my doctor keeps saying TKR which I have been putting off, when I walk my left leg no longer wants to  move correctly, so my question is ; is this what yours felt like and is Regenxx stem cell treatment still working,  if you could email me at youngatheart5376@hotmail.com

Your answer may determine what I might do.

Thanks

Darrell

youngatheart5376@hotmail.com

post #127 of 140

Hi! I never did have that stem cell treatment from Regenexx. I was told by many doctors that its a waste of time for me and thats not even considering the exorbitant cost.

I was consulting another doctor for BST-CarGel with micro fracture but am still hesitant...its too new and the findings after five years are not there.

Im waiting to be "old enough" to have a partial knee replacement...

Best of luck in whatever you choose to do.

post #128 of 140
I am the only US physician performing IL 1 Ra or IRAP injections ( similar to The Kobe Shot - Orthokine) in OKC and centers in Austin since 2013. A new Arthrokinex center will open in Tulsa in June 2016.
I thought that this information would be of interest to this forum. My work has been published in Cytokine. I am attaching the link below.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1043466616300473

More information is also available on www.arthrokinex.com
post #129 of 140
Quote:
Originally Posted by tetsuma View Post
 


You must have been disappointed, seriously.   Sorry it didn't help.   I spoke w/ a doc whom I have a great deal of respect, and he said stem cells were not ready for prime time.  There is a serious lack of managed studies/trials into this.  There are some studies with Canines, but I couldn't find any controlled studies on humans. 

 

I did have 3 synovial fluid injections (Eufflexa).  Last injection was two weeks ago, and it may have helped.  I can sit cross legged again, more range of motion, and a wee bit less pain.  My understanding is they help manage symptoms but do not heal/repair.  So, if I have to do them every six months, this is going to get very expensive.  The three injections I got were $2K, and not covered by insurance since only approved for knees.   Plus, my insurance (Premera) just stopped covering knees as well.

 

Seeing a regenerative sports med doc on Monday, who does this for some sports teams in Seattle, and will get her take on things.

 

thanks, David

Luckily I haven't yet needed treatment of this sort for anything. But I've done a lot of research into it for family members so here is my 2 cents. One thing I found was that unfortunately this might be one of the areas of medicine where U.S. doctors are not leading the rest of the world since stem cells were so controversial for a while there and because we have a strong tendency to lean on surgical or pharmaceutical treatments. So this is not to denigrate American doctors or anything, but in this area most American doctors (particularly older ones) just aren't really up to speed, this stuff wasn't really even on the horizon when they were in medical school. And even the people that are doing good research (in the US) on it are kind of at a point where they know that stem cells work, but their understanding of how they work is lacking. So in a recent ALS trial for example where they were injecting directly into the spinal fluid, some of the people responded really well, but others showed no improvement. So they are kind of rubbing sticks together and seeing that sometimes it will start a fire, but they don't really understand what's happening or the best ways/times to do it. It is definitely becoming more common in the US, but if you are able to travel I would at least look into other countries where they didn't have the ban on stem cells. Mexico might be a good place to start since many of the American doctors that were interested headed over the border after the ban. Best of luck.

post #130 of 140

I'm in Broomfield this week.  I have very little cartilage left in the medial compartment of both knees. I did ski twelve days this past winter, but I had to hold back and quit early. I had prolotherapy on Monday, Will get stem cell and PRP injections on Wednesday and a followup PRP injection on Friday.  In the opinion of a simple farmer they appear to be legit.  Don't expect a lot of posts, but I will let you know how I make out.

post #131 of 140
Good luck, PowderE.

I finally had my hip resurfaced. One month post-op to the day, and all is good. I waited too long, though. Good luck!

David
post #132 of 140

I'll give a update and try to answer some of the questions above.  The procedure progressed as planned.  Most of what they did involved slight to moderate pain.  The re injection of the stem cells hurt a lot.  They do give you a four or five day prescription of percocet. I took the first one immediately after the stem cell injections.  If I did it again I would take the first one immediately before the stem cell injections.  Because this was not a surgical procedure I expected a quick recovery, but I was wrong.  My doctor wants me to be very conservative about activity for two weeks.  He has nothing to worry about as I lack the range of motion and mobility to do anything aggressive.  Currently I am Walking 30 minutes per day in chest high water and do a bunch of lower body stretches and exercises.  Interestingly I lack mobility and flexibility, but have very little pain.  I took my last percocet on Saturday morning and my last Tylenol on Tuesday morning. Currently I am only taking the supplements glucosamine and fish oil.   Before the procedure I was on a mix and match diet of Ibuprofen, Tylenol, and Alleve at or above label dose. My pain is much less than before the procedure.

 

As far a cost goes, I received all the procedures listed above plus a PRP injection into my lumbar spine for a cost of $8200.  Prior to my visit I also spent $1300 on MRIs.  After a knee procedure the clinic wants you to wear a knee brace for 6 weeks.  I already owned a pair of braces, but if you don't expect another $1200 per knee for a brace. Those of you in the USA may be able to dump some of the costs on your insurance provider, for me no such luck.  The one catch for a bilateral knee procedure is experience has showed them you need 400 million stem cells per knee.  Not everyone can produce 800 million stem cells in stem cell draw, so you either under dose or do only one knee if you come up short.  Thankfully I had 860 million, so prognosis is good for both knees.

 

I remain impressed with the clinic and the people working there.  I'll let you know when I am able to become more active.

post #133 of 140
Isn't this 400,000 stem cells?
post #134 of 140

I'm now 7 weeks post procedure.  I can now bike at the same pace and duration I did before the procedure.  Unfortunately walking and swimming are not going near as well.  I have not attempted anything more strenuous than that.  So I'm getting a little worried its not going to help me, but speaking to my doctor he says it can still come.  Rod9301,  Yes I believe that in the past regenexx used your number of cells.  All I can say is in current speak they use an additional three zero's.  So I don't know if they have changed units or maybe changed how they measure.  I`ll update again closer to opening day.

post #135 of 140

Well opening day is getting closer.  Unfortunately I suspect my days this winter will be pain shortened again.  I did eventually swim and walk as well as before the procedure but any improvements have been small.  Biking has gone well and I am doing as much as I can to try to strengthen my legs and knees.  My oldest son has also made me pull my weight equipment out of storage and we are doing some low weight - hi rep training and it is going ok - some pain - but all bearable.  For the 8 weeks before the procedure occasionally  in my right knee something would "catch" and quite audibly "snap", since the procedure this has never happened - this would be my biggest improvement.  Walking down stairs or climbing in and out of my tractors remains painful.  I have also received PRP treatments to my lumbar spine to treat pain in my hips and numbness in my feet.  While not a complete cure these have made significant improvements to pain and numbness levels and have made sleeping so much better. My Canadian doctor has offered to give me two shiny Zimmer ZUK partial knee replacements.  Up front he has said he is OK with me skiing on them. No running, no volleyball, and I didn't bother asking about rugby - I know I will never touch the ball down again.  But I can ski so that is a good offer!  And the great thing is after partials they can still do two full knee replacements, which should get me to my deathbed.  Now for the big news.  Last week I spent 4 days traveling and 1 day in the Cayman Islands.  So ya, I made a large deposit on the cultured procedure.  Assuming they grow like they are supposed to I go back in December for re-injection.  If it was only my knees I think I would have taken my Canadian doctor`s offer, but my right shoulder has severe arthritis and my left shoulder has moderately severe arthritis.  The cultured procedure costs big bucks for one joint, but each additional joint is only $2000.00.  As a hedge I am also booking my knee replacements for next summer(6 month or more waiting list in Canada).  I don`t know if this will get me to the activity level I want, but I continue to be impressed with what I see at regenexx.  the hours worked, the attention to detail, the way they have documented everything they have done to me shows their commitment.   Many above will dismiss this technology.  My advice is if you have to borrow money for this procedure it is not for you.  If paying for this procedure is not painful to you, you have to try it before replacing body parts with steel and plastic.  This is all being done outside of big pharma and big medicine.  I know regenexx is not the only quality provider out there, but just be aware not everyone in this space provides quality.  When I have more to share I will be back.

post #136 of 140
It is now three weeks since my re injections in the Caymans. My stem cells grew well so there was enough to go around and treat everything we wanted to. I did try to ski in November and early December, but did not do well. My knees have definitely gotten worse compared to last season. I could ski a few runs on perfectly groomed terrain, but not anything more fun than that. And after those few easy runs I could no longer climb the stairs into the day lodge. Currently working hard on rehab, but once again it is a slow slog. I remain positive I will ski again this season and I will share how it goes with you.
post #137 of 140
Hello everyone,

Jus got my stem cell treatment done from regenexx India by doctor mova.

Been 3 days. Anyp pointers or tips?

Any help will be appreciated. Starting my physiotherapy tomorrow. Will post timely updates.

Thanks all
post #138 of 140
Was it one day procedure, or they cultivated the cells for a few weeks before injecting?
post #139 of 140
It has been 14 weeks since my regenexx procedures in the Caymans. I am very pleased with the reduction in pain and numbness in my shoulders, hands and cervical spine. Range of motion is still poor, but it is great to be able to sleep with only minor pain. Unfortunately the knees are a bust. I have tried to ski 7 times in the past 4 weeks. I skied from 7000 vertical feet the first day to 15000 vertical feet the last day. All of the skiing was on perfectly groomed, hard packed snow. As soon as I tried anything more variable or loose the pain in my knees was beyond my tolerance level. Walking and stairs still remain difficult today. So my first knee replacement is scheduled for June 13, 2017. All the best to those of you trying to stay on the snow.
post #140 of 140

one day procedure

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