Why no early rise on WC skis? - Page 2

I have a pair of 176 race stock Atomic LT12 GS skis.

They too have tips that seem to rise a bit.

When I try to find the center of the running surface by flattening them and using a piece of paper, the results are screwy.

The tips are so soft and high it is hard to see where the running surface starts.

For whatever reason, these skis are the fastest I have ever seen in a wax race.

+1^^

Are they more prone to catch air and float some?
 

 

Interesting.  I gave a woman my kids Stockli GS skis when he moved up to J-2.

 

They were three months old.  When I spoke with her a few weeks later she said the shop tossed them because they were shot, dead.  She put them on the floor and showed the man in the shop who agreed.  Of course he sold her new skis.

 

The last Stockli WC GS I had were in 2001 and they looked very flat.  In 180 however, I could not do them justice and they went through several owners till they found a home.

Hmmmm.... there's a thought. At speed, an abrupt curvature of tip rise might tend to cause a sharp upward deflection of the tip off every little icy nub because the angle of incidence (where it strikes) is so great.

But if there were a more gradual rise of the tip, maybe the tip would ricochet less abruptly because of the lesser angle of incidence where it strikes the base. Maybe this would produce less overall flopping around due to surface impacts? The problem of air flow lift wouldn't go away but maybe a Hole Ski could reduce it to the point where there's a net overall benefit...(?)

.ma

There are still some tips with holes on the WC.  How radical a tip rises has a definite minus when if comes to a rut.  Different topic though.

While not early rise, the Fischers have a hole & the '12 Rossi GS skis have an extended blunted tip w/ less material.  Both facilitate the decrease resistance to directional change.  Rossi reports that less layered tip will rock the stivot better.

 

FWIW, I like camber as it holds you to the snow.  Trick is getting the right size skis.  These may be ways to allow skiers to step up to a longer board, while having a more managable running length. 

 

I have 2 pair of Nordies in a 186 cm.  Single manufature year apart, they measure ~7 cm off & longer is way softer flexing....

Hard to see this happening. Then again, there was a time when recreational and performance skis had all gone "shaped", and WC skis were still straight. So you never know.

My Hart Javelin GS (Vist/Blossom) have 1 ski with a low gradual rise, and the other with a sharper taller rise.  Obviously Hart/Vist/Blossom had the foresight to predict this problem, and made a set of skis ready for any type of course.

 

....I need new GS skis.

Have never seen that profile on GS skis, but speed skis all have it. I would not call tnat early rise.  SG & DH are minimally splayed to keep from catching an edge in the tip at 50-85 MPH.

 

Too much tip grip at those speeds can be disasterous! Even though the speeds are much higher, the transitions must be slower and all skier movements must be more subtle and finesseful then GS or SL

A Rossi rep/product manager told me that there

are WC skis with early rise/

Hmmmm, does anyone have any actual pictures or video of a WC Racer (in a real WC Race) on a pair of skis with Early Rise?

There may be Race Skis out there for recreational racing and probably some being tested by WC people but that doesn't mean they're actually racing consistently in competition on them. Anyone know if there's any written reviews on Early Rise skis by current WC Racers?

.ma

Yeah and what constitutes and early rise anyway?  Where is the line drawn that makes it early?

The question to ponder is how early rise would benefit a racer.

Next years Dynastar and Rossi GS skis have the Early Rise Technology that they call Early Rise Rocker.

 

Look here : http://www.polpunkty.pl/files/2011-reklamy/pmsport/DYNASTAR_race_WEB.pdf and scroll down to the GS skis.

See red box around the Early Rise Rocker text-

 

Looks normal to me.

 

On a side note...I like the colors on the new Dynastar Race Skis.  Too bad they can't make a freeride ski that isn't ugly.

Interesting that when you go to the Dynastar website and look these skis up...under "technical features" they mention and explain the "wood/titinal" core, they mention and explain the "cascade tip", but the "early rise rocker" is not even mentioned.....

A brief explanation of the reason for early rise in the Feb 7, 2011 issue of Ski Racing.

 

http://www.skiracing-digital.com/skiracing/20110207/?pg=43#pg43

About how much?

Am I dumb?  That looked like an explanation for edge bevels to me.

See the first paragraph or two on the left side.

 

The website isn't updated with next years skis.

 

I hate marketing speak, it says nothing and imparts no actual information.

 

 

Watch racing and you'll see a lot of them.  It's no different from wider shapes for powder in some ways, it's not a Swiss army knife do-all solution but a natural way of addressing specific needs. 
 

 

Just about any Stoeckli speed ski from the last few years will have early rise. As my photo earlier in the thread illustrates, however, the rise is quite minimal and not likely to be discernible from any photo or video of actual skiing. It is only when the skis are base to base that it is at all apparent.

Do you consider that subtle rise anything new, or related to the recent "rocker revolution"? I recall many skis had that in the 60's.  We called it "tip splay", and it was thought by some to give a bit better glide to a speed ski.  Others claimed it caused the tips to wander.

I have '78 Rossi DHs, mid 90's Kastle Speed Machine DHs and '02 Fischer DHs to personally examine. None have any splay or early rise. The Stoeckli SGs have what my picture earlier in this thread shows. In my experience it is new. I wasn't aware of it until I asked the rep that gave me the SGs a few years ago and he said all the Stoeckli speed skis had it. I checked the Stoeckli site and they make no mention of it when describing their speed skis. I can't provide an objective comparison of the SGs vs a traditional SG of the same size, but I can say I do like the Stoeckli SG. It is fast and turns well.