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What do you think I should do? Replace Jet Fuels with Avenger 82 TI (demo report included)

post #1 of 16
Thread Starter 

Hi all, I need some expert opinions on the predicament I'm in. I'm an advanced skiier who spends 90% of my time on groomers either carving or going GS style. I ski ~12 days per year and am in Texas forcing a flight each time I want to ski. I basically need a one quiver ski.

 

I've had an array of skis, but I've ski'd the past three seasons on 170cm Nordica Hot Rod Jet Fuels, and I've really enjoyed them. They hold an edge great, can handle decent crud and powder, and still have great energy.

 

On a recent week long trip in Deer Valley, I decided to demo some of Rossignol skis. At Deer Valley, you can demo Rossi's for free. On a powder day, I demo's 98mm S3s, while great in the powder, the following day they were just no fun on the hard pack. They lacked the athletic quality my Jet Fuels had. While I was ready to retire the demo experience and go back to my Nordicas, they persuaded me to try the Avenger 82 TIs. Wow those skis were incredible. They felt so smooth and refined while having mad edge grip and overall just easier to control, especially at lower speeds. I fell in love with them actually.

 

Compared to the Jet Fuels, it's like comparing a full suspension mountain bike to a hard fork and tail bike on a washboard road. I was all set and sold on the Avengers, and even after going back to the Jet Fuels I was set on replacing the Jet Fuels. However, I ski'd three more days on the Jet Fuels and realized that at the limit, the JFs offer more sheer performance than the Avengers. Basically, you have to drive them like you stole them.

 

I'm a car guy so I'll use a car analogy. I have a V8 M3 with 420 hp while a friend of mine has a V10 Viper with 550 HP. They're both great and exceptionally fast cars, but just completely different. The Viper is slightly faster, but it punishes you while driving. Rattles/vibration/noise, it's just brute force. The BMW while just mildly slower is incredibly refined and smooth, it's a precision instrument. Around a track, I think the Viper is faster than the M3 slightly, but it takes a very seasoned drive who can handle all of its brute power. The M3 has more finesse and easier to control at the limit in my opinion. I think the M3 might be an easier/faster car for most around the track, but an expert driver would excel in the Viper if they really abused it and had the skills to push it to its limits. Basically the Jet Fuels are like the Viper and the Avengers are like the M3.

 

Anyways, I feel I can ski longer on the Avengers while the Jet Fuels take more out of me and make me feel more often slightly on the edge of out of control (which is how it should be). I have a GPS system that tracks my vertical and speed. Doing the same run nearly back to back, I was able to repeatedly hit 55 mph on a steep double blue at Deer Valley on the Avengers. Repeated runs on the Jet Fuels yielded 60 mph. However, the 55mph on Avengers felt silky smooth while 60 on the JFs was a workout and hair-raising for me. This is a highly subjective analysis, but the control on the Rossi's felt superior at those high speeds.

 

Has anyone rode the two skis and have any other comments? I'm leaning towards grabbing Avengers during the off-season just because they're more graceful, and I think I can ski longer on them and develop better. Also, the JFs are really tough to carve at low speed (I weigh 155 lbs, 6'0") while the Avengers are much better at slow speeds, and the tail on the Avengers holds edge better than the JFs.

 

Thanks, any and all opinions are welcome!


Edited by BrianV - 3/11/11 at 3:43pm
post #2 of 16
Thread Starter 

I'll further add that my skiing is primarily, in order: Colorado (mainly Beaver Creek and Keystone), Utah (Deer Valley) and Tahoe (Northstar)

post #3 of 16
Thread Starter 
Bump. Looking to buy new skis before my trip to Colorado in December.
post #4 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianV View Post
and realized that at the limit, the JFs offer more sheer performance than the Avengers. Basically, you have to drive them like you stole them.

This is a decent summary, although some of your issues may be edge angles. Avengers are nice skis, as are the JF's. Have demoed former, own put-your-own-binders-on version of latter. Somewhat different audiences and missions. If you want the Avengers as much as you seem to, just go get 'em. 

 

Incidentally, I'd chill a bit on hitting 55 mph on blues. Which tend to be full of kids and beginners. The test of your ability is how well you handle really demanding terrain, say double diamonds, not how fast you can haul down an easy slope. wink.gif


Edited by beyond - 9/25/11 at 3:31pm
post #5 of 16
Thread Starter 
Thanks, I'll research those. Appreciate feedback.
post #6 of 16
Thread Starter 
In regards to speed, this was a weekday at Deer Valley and I basically had the entire mountain to myself. As noted, when others are present my skiing is different.
post #7 of 16

^^^ All good. Incidentally, there are better skis than either the Avenger or the JF for GS-ing groomers if that's your thing. They're more all-mountain types, do many things well, nothing perfectly. If you want to rip big turns and keep things smooth and steady, try out some of the new 2012 mid-fat Heads - the Peaks are now constructed more like the old Monsters - or Stocklis like the XXL or VXL, or the Kastle MX78. Blizzard 8.1's have a pretty high speed limit but are easier to handle at low speeds than many. Of the group I just mentioned, I'd pick the MX78 at the top, then the 8.1, then the VXL. Just my .02. 

post #8 of 16

it sounds like you want to get the avenger. If that's how you feel then its probably a good call.

post #9 of 16

I have skied both.  The Jet Fuel may be akin to the demanding and harsh Viper, but the Avenger, on ice anyway, is alot like a Corolla in comparison.wink.gif

post #10 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dauntless View Post

I have skied both.  The Jet Fuel may be akin to the demanding and harsh Viper, but the Avenger, on ice anyway, is alot like a Corolla in comparison." rel="/img/vbsmilies/smilies/wink.gif">wink.gif


I skiied the Avengers after some snow had dumped, I thought it handled crud better, but I haven't seen them on ice. Although the Jet Fuels never bothered me on ice, I didn't think they were great on ice either.
post #11 of 16
Thread Starter 
I'm going to Steamboat for a week in December, and I decided I'd likely wait it out and demo there. Any other suggestions for a similar 80-90mm underfoot all mountain advanced/expert ski. I'm 70% on/30% off. Edge grip, stability at speed and hard snow performance are the most important single aspects to me, but since I travel to ski, I really do need a single ski that can do it all, which is why I went from a sub70mm to an 84. I still get caught in powder days, crud, etc. Jet Fuels are great, I just demo'd the Rossis because it was free and my wife was demo'ing. I just really enjoyed the smoothness and slow speed performance compared to the JFs. Made me want to try some more mid-fats, so I'm open to suggestions.
post #12 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianV View Post
I skiied the Avengers after some snow had dumped, I thought it handled crud better, but I haven't seen them on ice. Although the Jet Fuels never bothered me on ice, I didn't think they were great on ice either.


Hmmm. Demos aren't famous for their perfect tunes, but this statement makes me wonder if you were getting good edge angles. JF's are great on ice for a ski that width. Seriously, not a universal fan of Nordie mid-fats, especially the bindings, but you can't fault their grip. 

 

As far as other demos, there's a ton of nice mid to high 80's out there. Suggest you look at the various reviews in the Gear Reviews section opening page, then look at the thread, where the discussion unwraps a lot. Sierra Jim, Phil, Dawgcatching, others have done some very useful reviews. In general, you might pay attention to Rossis, Dynastars, K2's, Elans, the 2012 Volkls. 

 

post #13 of 16

I ski Steamboat often, and will be there in Dec. also. In 10 weeks, not that I'm counting!  The tuning of a ski can make or break it,and was mentioned above, demo skis are most often not tuned or maintained well. In Steamboat, I demo only from Steamboat Ski and Bike Kare. Everyone in the shop really knows their stuff and are great guys.  The head ski tuner there is Tim McGill. He is a speed skier, and has been clocked at 147 mph on skis. This guy knows how to tune a ski. All the demo's are tuned and waxed each time they go out. And, they are the cheapest place in Steamboat to demo skis. Tim also makes his own brand of wax's, called Home Town Wax. Needless to say, they are fast. And, the wax stays on the skis much longer. I have been using it for the last 6 years, and have given my Swix wax's away.

post #14 of 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianV View Post



I skiied the Avengers after some snow had dumped, I thought it handled crud better, but I haven't seen them on ice. Although the Jet Fuels never bothered me on ice, I didn't think they were great on ice either.



Jet Fuels are good in ice but somewhat slow edge to edge due to their waist width.

 

post #15 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JW MN View Post

I ski Steamboat often, and will be there in Dec. also. In 10 weeks, not that I'm counting!  The tuning of a ski can make or break it,and was mentioned above, demo skis are most often not tuned or maintained well. In Steamboat, I demo only from Steamboat Ski and Bike Kare. Everyone in the shop really knows their stuff and are great guys.  The head ski tuner there is Tim McGill. He is a speed skier, and has been clocked at 147 mph on skis. This guy knows how to tune a ski. All the demo's are tuned and waxed each time they go out. And, they are the cheapest place in Steamboat to demo skis. Tim also makes his own brand of wax's, called Home Town Wax. Needless to say, they are fast. And, the wax stays on the skis much longer. I have been using it for the last 6 years, and have given my Swix wax's away.


Thanks for the very helpful info!
post #16 of 16
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post




Seriously, not a universal fan of Nordie mid-fats, especially the bindings, but you can't fault their grip.>


My JFs were the last year they made them with XBS, not even XBI which I heard was better. I find them to not be too terribly bad edge-to-edge compared to other skis I've had that were narrower. However, I'll admit that as a West Coast skiier all my life, I have fortunately not had too many days of crazy ice as say an East coaster would. While I get my occasional ice, I can usually find runs somewhere on the mountain that aren't all that icy. I much prefer skiing on just about any other type of snow than ice. I know great skiiers can ski their best/fastest on ice, but it's just not something I enjoy as much, perhaps inexperience.

All that said, performance in ice isn't as critical a feature for a ski for me. I don't want it to totally suck in ice though since I travel with just one pair. As stated earlier, the 2 days I skiied the Avengers, there wasn't any ice anywhere.
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EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Ski Gear Discussion › What do you think I should do? Replace Jet Fuels with Avenger 82 TI (demo report included)