EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Wintersteiger Iron not spreading/heating evenly
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Wintersteiger Iron not spreading/heating evenly

post #1 of 25
Thread Starter 

My wintersteiger iron is having problems heating and spreading wax, especially my RaceWax T-series hard flouro (which has to be crayoned-on, not dripped).  The outside edges of the ski seem to be locations of melting first... as if the iron's surface is concave.

 

Today I took the temp to almost 150 (the limit for not burning the base), and it barely spread, with laborious and repeated spreading.  That's not how difficult it looks in Swix School's videos.

 

 

Should I just crank the thing up to 155 and hope the P-tex doesn't burn, or does this Iron I bought (the 35 dollar wintersteiger) just suck really bad?

 

 

Also, let me know if there are any hard flouros that are easier to use than RaceWax, which with my current situation is a bit too much of a hassle to be comfortable with.

post #2 of 25

I have the same exact problem with this iron, mines new and I'm very dissatisfied! Maybe its time to upgrade for both of us.

post #3 of 25

I am also having an iron problem.

Maybe Alpinord, or someone could give us an opinion about irons?

 

post #4 of 25

I have the exact same wax, and couldn't get it to spread evenly for the life of me. I ended up burning my bases, and got a bubble on each ski's base. I'm pissed. I guess this is what we get for using cheap irons?

post #5 of 25
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post

I have the exact same wax, and couldn't get it to spread evenly for the life of me. I ended up burning my bases, and got a bubble on each ski's base. I'm pissed. I guess this is what we get for using cheap irons?



Probably, because I was lead to believe the RaceWax products were of very high quality (and jeez, the T-series better be for the money I paid for those little blocks).

 

I guess I never thought a little green iron could suck so much (as I'm sure you've found, this iron SUCKS... I couldn't imagine melting a flouro powder).  Even using regular soft CH waxes is tougher than it should be (like, if I just made one pass, I could never melt the CH I dripped on the base... I have to go back and forth Like I'm scrubbing something!)

post #6 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post





Probably, because I was lead to believe the RaceWax products were of very high quality (and jeez, the T-series better be for the money I paid for those little blocks).

 

I guess I never thought a little green iron could suck so much (as I'm sure you've found, this iron SUCKS... I couldn't imagine melting a flouro powder).  Even using regular soft CH waxes is tougher than it should be (like, if I just made one pass, I could never melt the CH I dripped on the base... I have to go back and forth Like I'm scrubbing something!)

I like going with a method that I think Alpinord calls hot touch waxing - particularly when working with harder waxes.  Basically you rub the wax on the bottom of the wax iron (which is set at the proper temp for that wax).  Instead of dripping it, you then take the iron and rub it on the ski.  When the iron is out of wax (usually an area just larger than the surface of the iron itself) you touch the wax to the iron again. 

 

This leaves a thin layer of wax on the ski so it is nice with harder waxes since you don't have to scrape as much.  Also, you use less wax (less expense).  Finally it is safer for the base because the wax is already melted when the iron comes in contact with the base.  This means the iron is just there long enough to spread out what material it has and not have to wait to melt random drips that have already cooled and re-hardened on the surface of the ski. 
 

 

post #7 of 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

My wintersteiger iron is having problems heating and spreading wax, especially my RaceWax T-series hard flouro (which has to be crayoned-on, not dripped).  The outside edges of the ski seem to be locations of melting first... as if the iron's surface is concave.

 

Today I took the temp to almost 150 (the limit for not burning the base), and it barely spread, with laborious and repeated spreading.  That's not how difficult it looks in Swix School's videos.

 

 

Should I just crank the thing up to 155 and hope the P-tex doesn't burn, or does this Iron I bought (the 35 dollar wintersteiger) just suck really bad?

 

 

Also, let me know if there are any hard flouros that are easier to use than RaceWax, which with my current situation is a bit too much of a hassle to be comfortable with.

Have to ask a stupid question, but are you sure the bases are flat?  Many times when the wax doesn't spread to the middle, it means your ski is edge high.  It doesn't have to be much off to have this effect.  Check with a straight edge to be sure.  I mean unless the heat source inside the iron is REALLY REALLY localized, the heat should conduct well through the face of the iron.  Not sure if it is steel, aluminum or whatever, but even steel which is a far worse conductor of heat than aluminum, should be able to conduct heat to an area effectively enough the size of a wax iron. 

 

Also - the comment about the cheap iron - the nice thing about the wax irons are not just the temp settings on them.  They keep the temperature withing a narrow band.  When ironing cotton shorts, they have a wide band where the iron is effective and the cotton won't burn.  A clothes iron manufacturer simply doesn't care that much about keeping the temp inside a narrow band of temps.  I got a nice Toko iron from Slidewright a few years back that I love.  It really wasn't that much money when it comes down to it. 
 

 

post #8 of 25
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mondak View Post



Have to ask a stupid question, but are you sure the bases are flat?  Many times when the wax doesn't spread to the middle, it means your ski is edge high.  It doesn't have to be much off to have this effect.  Check with a straight edge to be sure.  I mean unless the heat source inside the iron is REALLY REALLY localized, the heat should conduct well through the face of the iron.  Not sure if it is steel, aluminum or whatever, but even steel which is a far worse conductor of heat than aluminum, should be able to conduct heat to an area effectively enough the size of a wax iron. 

 

Also - the comment about the cheap iron - the nice thing about the wax irons are not just the temp settings on them.  They keep the temperature withing a narrow band.  When ironing cotton shorts, they have a wide band where the iron is effective and the cotton won't burn.  A clothes iron manufacturer simply doesn't care that much about keeping the temp inside a narrow band of temps.  I got a nice Toko iron from Slidewright a few years back that I love.  It really wasn't that much money when it comes down to it. 
 

 



They look flat, although I never tested is with a straight device.  I'm sure it's probably off.  The skis have probably been used 15-20 times since Ski-depot did an new-skis "race tune."  I dunno, is 15 days enough to warrant a stone grind?  The bases themselves look smooth (definitely no ruts, etc)

post #9 of 25

While flatness could be an issue, I solved the problem for someone else that called last month (maybe it was you?).  It seems that they were not putting enough wax on the ski; they only had a very thin layer.  If you read my website notes on the crayon method it involves tapping the wax to the surface of the iron to soften it then rubbing it on by hand.  This is especially important for the harder waxes.  It will go on thicker and provide the wax barrier preventing the iron from touching the base.  If you are working with a CH4 or my T1, then you may wish to use fiberlene paper or reduce the wax to a powder with a cheese grater.

 

BTW, my cell number is the technical response line on my website.  There's no need to bounce around for days on the forum for an answer.  You could have gotten your answer while standing at the wax table.  Also, we have a 100% satisfaction guarantee.  Call/write me if you have problems.  I stand behind what I sell.  I sell 1000 irons/year and maybe get 3 returned per year but with those numbers I can't check them all, and I can't help you if you don't contact me.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

They look flat, although I never tested is with a straight device.  I'm sure it's probably off.  The skis have probably been used 15-20 times since Ski-depot did an new-skis "race tune."  I dunno, is 15 days enough to warrant a stone grind?  The bases themselves look smooth (definitely no ruts, etc)



 

post #10 of 25
Thread Starter 
Dr d, I didn't want to melt wax as your website clearly says "do not attempt to melt". Also your tone sounds like you are offended I didn't call raceway; please do not be I was actually asking about an iron you sell though don't manufacture. I have no issues with your wax and bought it bc I thought it was one of the best... Today I was sailing w/ moly flouromax under t4
post #11 of 25

The "do not melt" applies to 100% pure fluoro powders, not the waxes.

 

Sorry if what I wrote had a tone.  When I write factually it sometimes comes off that way.  All I'm saying is just pick up the phone and call me anytime; I help people everyday.  And even if I don't make it, if I sell it, I will back it.  So if you are unhappy with the iron, all I'm saying is I want to be the first to know and I want to have a chance to help you before everyone else thinks there are problems that aren't.  I will make it right everytime.  You can still say the iron sucks if you want, but I would rather see it accompanied by "but DrD did ... and now I am happy" because we try hard to make sure everyone is happy in the end.  So contact me about the iron.

 

Glad you like the wax.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Dr d, I didn't want to melt wax as your website clearly says "do not attempt to melt". Also your tone sounds like you are offended I didn't call raceway; please do not be I was actually asking about an iron you sell though don't manufacture. I have no issues with your wax and bought it bc I thought it was one of the best... Today I was sailing w/ moly flouromax under t4


 

post #12 of 25

I've been extremely satisfied with the wax from Racewax.com. I use the flouromax all the time, very fast and lasts a long time. I've even turned on a few of my beer league buddies to it, its great for that too. I feel that the iron in question isn't the greatest, mine has a hard time melting the ch10 I use for hot scraping. I'm seriously looking at upgrading to something better and selling my iron on ebay. I think the age old saying "you get what you pay for" holds true here. 36 bucks for a wax iron isn't much.

post #13 of 25

Dr D, I don't hold you responsible, you didn't make the iron so why should you take the heat? I'm an extremely happy customer, I'll never go any ware else for my wax and tuning supplies.

post #14 of 25

 

Err, guys, before you go blaming flatness, do any of you have a laser thermometer or a candy thermometer?

post #15 of 25

Wax Irons are like carpentry tools. Crap, good and awesome.  Wax mouses (around $35) are the crap, they will melt wax but piss you off or wreck your investment in the process.  Winterstieger has a digital iron that racewax sells for $65 that is in the good range.  I like this one because it is good and a great price.  I use a Holmenkol electronic iron, but the minimum cost on that is $200.  Flawless and exact temperature, but really expensive.  If you are just wax your own equipment the good range is a perfect choice, if you are doing team stuff or work in a shop you need to spend more.

 

Hope this helps.

 

post #16 of 25
Thread Starter 


Thank you... which wax are you protesting?  or all of them (do you prefer vegetable shortening)??  Sorry, just kidding. 

 

Anyway, thank you for the info... this does help.  I am just waxing for myself, but I still want "good" performance.

 

 

I am going to try Dr. D's suggestion of melting the flouro blocks then pasting on.  I actually think the iron is fine (NOT "good," but fine) for melting the racewax warm weather hydrocarbon (which I use for hot scraping, recreational wax, and occasionally base wax).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Protestwax View Post

Wax Irons are like carpentry tools. Crap, good and awesome.  Wax mouses (around $35) are the crap, they will melt wax but piss you off or wreck your investment in the process.  Winterstieger has a digital iron that racewax sells for $65 that is in the good range.  I like this one because it is good and a great price.  I use a Holmenkol electronic iron, but the minimum cost on that is $200.  Flawless and exact temperature, but really expensive.  If you are just wax your own equipment the good range is a perfect choice, if you are doing team stuff or work in a shop you need to spend more.

 

Hope this helps.

 



 


Edited by Vitamin Ski - 3/14/11 at 6:33pm
post #17 of 25

Thanks DDboy but your not responsible either.  Seriously, contact me about exchanging the iron for a different model if you like.  I'll give you a good deal - PM me.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by dietdewboy View Post

Dr D, I don't hold you responsible, you didn't make the iron so why should you take the heat? I'm an extremely happy customer, I'll never go any ware else for my wax and tuning supplies.



 

post #18 of 25

Yup I'm an extremely happy customer!!! Marc took very good care of me and the whole iron mess. I'm hooked on Racewax.com

Thanks again Dr.D

post #19 of 25
Thread Starter 

I retract---PARTIALLY---my opening post.  Just now, I waxed my skis with moly flouromax.  I cranked up iron to 140, melted the block onto the iron, forming a paste... then I spread that on.  I only imagine what kind of performance I was missing if I was crayoning on the hard block.  I shall see this weekend.  Only downside is the wax got onto my clothes... at least they are black, but Goo Gone didn't get it out.  Oh well, my fault for not wearing something old.

 

I will say, though, that the little 20g block of the high performance waxes may only give you 2-3 wax sessions with this method.  It is quite remarkable how quickly that little black block melts away when put on the surface of the iron.  Also, the spreading still kind of sucks, because there were whitish streaks up and down the ski upon scraping.  Not sure what to make of that.  (though I am a waxing newbie, so maybe my technique wasn't good).

 

 

 

What would really be helpful is if you could spread the wet wax with something more suitable for spreading, such as a paint brush, or something like that.  A flat metal surface---I don't care how hot---isn't exactly the best spreader (you certainly wouldn't use something to spread paint or other coatings, so why not hot wax?)

post #20 of 25

Please follow my website instructions for my wax, nothing against Terry's method, it's just that it doesn't work well for my wax.  See this page and others:   http://www.racewax.com/category/tuning-tips.quick-tuning-guide/

 

  1. If using FluoroMax or other racewax.com fluoro waxes, you must rub it on (racewax fluoro waxes will not drip on) crayon on one layer, then with the iron in one hand soften the wax for 1 second and rub a slightly thicker coat on. Then iron.  [So don't put it all on the iron, just tap it 1 sec then rub on to get an even layer.]
  2. With this method I can get 6-8 applications from a 40g (mine are not 20g) bar.
  3. The white streaks happens because the wax was not spread evenly due to making the paste on the iron surface.
  4. The wax should come out of your clothes with hot soapy water.
     
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

I retract---PARTIALLY---my opening post.  Just now, I waxed my skis with moly flouromax.  I cranked up iron to 140, melted the block onto the iron, forming a paste... then I spread that on.  I only imagine what kind of performance I was missing if I was crayoning on the hard block.  I shall see this weekend.  Only downside is the wax got onto my clothes... at least they are black, but Goo Gone didn't get it out.  Oh well, my fault for not wearing something old.

 

I will say, though, that the little 20g block of the high performance waxes may only give you 2-3 wax sessions with this method.  It is quite remarkable how quickly that little black block melts away when put on the surface of the iron.  Also, the spreading still kind of sucks, because there were whitish streaks up and down the ski upon scraping.  Not sure what to make of that.  (though I am a waxing newbie, so maybe my technique wasn't good).

 

 

 

What would really be helpful is if you could spread the wet wax with something more suitable for spreading, such as a paint brush, or something like that.  A flat metal surface---I don't care how hot---isn't exactly the best spreader (you certainly wouldn't use something to spread paint or other coatings, so why not hot wax?)



 

post #21 of 25
Thread Starter 

I guess I'll try that next time.  So are you saying it doesn't spread well, and that's why it needs to be rubbed on?  Or are you saying that me putting the wax on the iron caused syneresis of the wax and different components were spread along my base?

 

Also, do you recommend frequent moly users get heavy metals testing to be safe?  How toxic would you rate the molybdenum in your moly waxes?  Is it elemental molybdenum, a complex, or a salt?

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doctor D View Post

Please follow my website instructions for my wax, nothing against Terry's method, it's just that it doesn't work well for my wax.  See this page and others:   http://www.racewax.com/category/tuning-tips.quick-tuning-guide/

 

  1. If using FluoroMax or other racewax.com fluoro waxes, you must rub it on (racewax fluoro waxes will not drip on) crayon on one layer, then with the iron in one hand soften the wax for 1 second and rub a slightly thicker coat on. Then iron.  [So don't put it all on the iron, just tap it 1 sec then rub on to get an even layer.]
  2. With this method I can get 6-8 applications from a 40g (mine are not 20g) bar.
  3. The white streaks happens because the wax was not spread evenly due to making the paste on the iron surface.
  4. The wax should come out of your clothes with hot soapy water.
     


 



 

post #22 of 25

I'm saying it gets rubbed on because it doesn't drip.  Spread it evenly because that makes sense.  You likely had an excess of moly in some spots, I don't know - it never happened to me - but I spread it evenly.

 

It is Molybdenum Disulfide.  Here is a link to the MSDS.  My moly is the same as everyone's moly.  Don't eat it.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

I guess I'll try that next time.  So are you saying it doesn't spread well, and that's why it needs to be rubbed on?  Or are you saying that me putting the wax on the iron caused syneresis of the wax and different components were spread along my base?

 

Also, do you recommend frequent moly users get heavy metals testing to be safe?  How toxic would you rate the molybdenum in your moly waxes?  Is it elemental molybdenum, a complex, or a salt?

 



 



 

post #23 of 25

here is my experience with wintersteiger a couple of seasons ago:

 

I bought an iron from racewax.com and had problems with it being out of calibration.  I had to turn the dial up uncomfortably high for it to melt the wax properly.  I called wintersteiger's customer service department.  They refused to work with me as they were only set up to deal with their wholesale business clients and were not providing customer service to the end-user.  They told me I should return it through racewax.  I did not and continued to press wintersteiger.  I got to the point where their tech department agreed they should take back the iron but their customer service department would not work the issue.  I eventually found a number for their corporate headquarters and found a VP who championed my cause.  He had them send me a new iron and upgraded me to their digital iron.  I offered to pay the difference but would not take my money for the trouble I had gone through to get support.

 

Here are my thought on the matter:

I did not want to burden Dr. D with dealing with a bad iron as he had given me a great deal on a bunch of stuff and gave me some great technical advise too.  I also thought that wintersteiger's customer service was lacking and felt the challenge to try to fix it.  What I should have done was worked the issue through racewax.com, as although I did get a new iron in the end, it took me a lot of time and effort and I am not sure if wintersteiger did anything to change their customer service practices.

 

The wintersteiger irons are very similar to alot of other irons on the market.  I can't say if they are better or worse because I have not used another brand but except the colors and logo they look identical to other products.  Their lower end model is an OK iron.  There are bound to be defective one or even defective batches.  My issue was a calibration issue, I probably could have noted the actual temp and adjusted accordingly but felt it should work properly for whatever money I spent and was not sure if the swing cycle of the thermostat would be a problem...a problem iron could cause costly damage.  The digital iron wintersteiger sent me is also mass produced, and I suspect it too is the same, except for the color and logo, to identically looking irons on the market, but this iron was spot on for the temp reading and has worked very well since I have owned it.  I would not be surprised if someone found one of these to be defective too at some point.

 

The bottom line is that some of these companies that market the tools and gear we use do not have robust customer service staff and are not generally set up to work with the end user; they have an expectation that the customer will work these issues through the retailer.  Mark (Dr. D, owner of racewax.com) is known by name at wintersteiger because of the volume he sells.  It is reassuring to know that he stands firmly behind the products he sells with both technical and aftermarket support.  He sells good products at reasonable prices and is a great ambassador to veterans of skiing and folks just getting into the sport.  The fact that his customer service number is his cellphone number is a testament to his dedication to his customers.  Had I been smarter about my issue with the iron I would have contacted him for his help with the warranty.

 

I hope this email helps.

 

zohan

 

 

 

post #24 of 25

I know the low-end Wintersteiger iron you're talking about, and found the base plate wasn't thick enough for it to maintain temperature very well, which aggravated me to no end.  Rather than keep twisting the dial higher, I replaced it with a Swix T73, which I've been very happy with.  I've yet to purchase anything from Doctor D, but his customer service seems to be pretty darned good, and if you don't mind swinging the cash for a higher-end iron, I'd recommend taking him up on his offer for a deal on an exchange.

 

I'd also recommend finding someone who can show you, in person, how to tune and wax your skis.  If you're getting into racing, there have got to be people around who know how to maintain skis.  I initially went through a bunch of online tutorials and videos and was doing okay with it, but found that watching somebody who knew what he was doing and asking him questions in person really helped.  Since then I've been both faster and doing a better job.

post #25 of 25
Thread Starter 

Well yeah, I've had it with that silly little iron.  I'm going to purchase a more expensive one for next year.  I am also going to look into waxes that can be dripped on.  I don't have the skills to apply the wax I'm using.  I'll use up what I have left, but look forward to finding easier waxes to use.

 

For vacations I'm gonna look into just getting a block of F4 paste-on with a cork and brush... I can't be worrying about wax drippings and shavings getting all over a condo.  Of course, I know some hotels have waxing rooms, but having access to one or having it be empty are two things I can't rely on.

 

But for home I look forward to better waxing days.

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › Tuning, Maintenance and Repairs › Wintersteiger Iron not spreading/heating evenly