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VIST TT plate on Kastle MX78?

post #1 of 26
Thread Starter 

Just poached a used pair of 78's on Ebay (in 176cm). They come with what is probably a demo binding. I have VIST TT plates on my other skis and would like to do the same with the Kastles. Anyone use this combination? Anyone have a set of plates they are dying to sell me? Or (less likely), a Kti setup?. By the way, the sellers sold a pair of 167's as well. But as of this wrtitng the 188's are still available - cheap.

Thanks,

David

post #2 of 26

So you're the other one. JMD and I both grabbed 78s. He the 168s and I got the other 176s.

post #3 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by stevesmith7 View Post

So you're the other one. JMD and I both grabbed 78s. He the 168s and I got the other 176s.



beercheer.gif

 

post #4 of 26

I recently put TT plates on Stockli Stormrider XXLs (previously mounted with Dukes); made a great ski even better.  I'm sure you won't go wrong.

post #5 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taxman View Post

I recently put TT plates on Stockli Stormrider XXLs (previously mounted with Dukes); made a great ski even better.  I'm sure you won't go wrong.



I already have the TT's on a pair of Hart Phoenix and Pulses. Also have the Speedlock plate on an old pair of VIST RC's (Phoenix twin -116/66/101). Like the TT's better - not as stiff a ride. Enjoy yours icon14.gif

post #6 of 26

I think it is an interesting choice as Gene Wilder from Young Frankenstein says....."It...Could...WOOOORK!!!"

post #7 of 26

deliberate 1 congrats on your E-Bay find. I picked-up the 168cm MX78s demos and hope they are arrive in reasonably good condition. We certainly can agree the price was right. I will first try the demo bindings to see how they ski.  If you change out the bindings, please keep us posted with your results.


Edited by JMD - 3/9/11 at 8:14am
post #8 of 26
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JMD View Post

deliberate 1 congrats on your E-Bay find. I pick-up the 168cm MX78s demos and hope they are arrive in reasonably good condition. We certainly can agree the price was right. I will first try the demo bindings to see how they ski.  If you change out the bindings, please keep us posted with your results.



Right back at you and will do. I actually spoke to the seller in MD before I pulled the trigger. Seems like a good guy - all former ski shop rats who got tired of "retail." He described that his "A" rating designation for the ones we got means basically cosmetic stuff. Perhaps some base repair but no core shots, etc. For the price we paid, we can all invest in a top notch grind and tune (wish I was back at Vail - just got back from two week, 12 day romp. Had Tommy's Tunes do up my Hart Phoenix and Blizz Titan Cronus in their very fancy shop. Master tune!).

David

post #9 of 26

Send them to SkiMD in Framingham, MA...really.  You won't regret it.

 

No idea on the plates...I ski mine with KTIs, didn't demo without them.  They're trench-digging machines (now that the tune is right; factory tune had way too much base bevel).
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post


 



Right back at you and will do. I actually spoke to the seller in MD before I pulled the trigger. Seems like a good guy - all former ski shop rats who got tired of "retail." He described that his "A" rating designation for the ones we got means basically cosmetic stuff. Perhaps some base repair but no core shots, etc. For the price we paid, we can all invest in a top notch grind and tune (wish I was back at Vail - just got back from two week, 12 day romp. Had Tommy's Tunes do up my Hart Phoenix and Blizz Titan Cronus in their very fancy shop. Master tune!).

David



 

post #10 of 26
Thread Starter 


 

 


Frankly Phil, I more favor the line when Marty Feldman (ie: Eyegor), asks the good doc if he needs help with "the bags."

And remember, you sold me those TT plates/614's, Dr. Frawnkenshtine.

David



Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post

I think it is an interesting choice as Gene Wilder from Young Frankenstein says....."It...Could...WOOOORK!!!"



 

post #11 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post


 


Frankly Phil, I more favor the line when Marty Feldman (ie: Eyegor), asks the good doc if he needs help with "the bags."

And remember, you sold me those TT plates/614's, Dr. Frawnkenshtine.

David





 


You take the blonde and I'll take the one in the toi-bin? 

 

post #12 of 26
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeer View Post

Send them to SkiMD in Framingham, MA...really.  You won't regret it.

 

No idea on the plates...I ski mine with KTIs, didn't demo without them.  They're trench-digging machines (now that the tune is right; factory tune had way too much base bevel).
 



 

Thanks for reminding me. What is the factory tune and what did you tell SkiMD to do that was different?

I had Tommy's do a 1/3 on the Phoenix's (116/66/101) and they now hook up beautifully for a 16.5m ski. Even skied them in the pow (up to 8") last week in Vail and left the 88mm Titan's in the closet (total noodles). Guess I figured there must be hard snow under there somewhere if I just dived deep enough.biggrin.gif Was skiing with my pal Rick Schnellman who was also on some turny sl race ski in what must have been less than 170cm, maybe even less than 160cm. Course he could look great skiing on plastic knives. I just love skinny skis.

David

post #13 of 26
Thread Starter 


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Philpug View Post




You take the blonde and I'll take the one in the toi-bin? 

 



Sorry Phil, you get Frau Blucher (NNNNNEEEIIIIIGHHHHHHHHHHH)

post #14 of 26

I have a lot of respect for Vist plates, use a few, but...

 

1) Have you actually looked for the KTi's? Everyone says they are superb for their intended target. If I had put some on my MX70's, instead of Tyrolia plates and bindings, might have been delirious instead of sorta happy. Hard to read that crystal ball. 

 

2) The MX78 is not a floppy ski, and as SJ has said, its unique qualities may come from an unusual balance of longitudinal and lateral torsion resistance. If you make it a lot stiffer laterally, or in the middle both directions, yep, you'll get more bite, but might you kill the magic? Put another way, I've found some skis immediately get better when I slap a plate on them, others not really. Once in a while they get worse.  IMO depends on the match of the ski to the plate, not just the plate per se.

 

my .02, anyway...

post #15 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by beyond View Post

I have a lot of respect for Vist plates, use a few, but...

 

1) Have you actually looked for the KTi's? Everyone says they are superb for their intended target. If I had put some on my MX70's, instead of Tyrolia plates and bindings, might have been delirious instead of sorta happy. Hard to read that crystal ball. 

 

2) The MX78 is not a floppy ski, and as SJ has said, its unique qualities may come from an unusual balance of longitudinal and lateral torsion resistance. If you make it a lot stiffer laterally, or in the middle both directions, yep, you'll get more bite, but might you kill the magic? Put another way, I've found some skis immediately get better when I slap a plate on them, others not really. Once in a while they get worse.  IMO depends on the match of the ski to the plate, not just the plate per se.

 

my .02, anyway...



Beyond, very sensible advice. I know that different plates can affect the performance of the same ski. I prefer the TT plate (less rigid) on the Hart Phoenix over the Speedlock plate (more rigid) on my VIST RC TEAM's, which is a twin. Really love the ability to move the bindings along the plate which is the genious of the VIST system. Amazing how a 3mm move forward enhanced the edge initiation qualities of the Phoenix. Does the Kti plate permit this kind of adjustment?Mucho $ for that system?  Thanks

David

 

post #16 of 26

0.75/3 (actually, the 0.75 is the median in a tolerance range of 0.5-1.0).  Fresh out of plastic, they had WAY more than 1' of base bevel...made me feel like I'd forgotten how to turn.  Now they're just ridiculous fun, and versatile enough to handle a huge variety of conditions.

 

Get a true bar and go http://www.skimd.com/parameters.php to measure the base edge angle to check for yourself; being a math geek, I checked the math, and the figures are quite accurate.

 

The KTIs do have fore/aft adjustability, but honestly, I haven't had a chance (or need) to mess around with it.  Yet....

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post


 

Thanks for reminding me. What is the factory tune and what did you tell SkiMD to do that was different?

I had Tommy's do a 1/3 on the Phoenix's (116/66/101) and they now hook up beautifully for a 16.5m ski. Even skied them in the pow (up to 8") last week in Vail and left the 88mm Titan's in the closet (total noodles). Guess I figured there must be hard snow under there somewhere if I just dived deep enough.biggrin.gif Was skiing with my pal Rick Schnellman who was also on some turny sl race ski in what must have been less than 170cm, maybe even less than 160cm. Course he could look great skiing on plastic knives. I just love skinny skis.

David



 

post #17 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilikebeer View Post

0.75/3 (actually, the 0.75 is the median in a tolerance range of 0.5-1.0).  Fresh out of plastic, they had WAY more than 1' of base bevel...made me feel like I'd forgotten how to turn.  Now they're just ridiculous fun, and versatile enough to handle a huge variety of conditions.

 

Get a true bar and go http://www.skimd.com/parameters.php to measure the base edge angle to check for yourself; being a math geek, I checked the math, and the figures are quite accurate.

 

The KTIs do have fore/aft adjustability, but honestly, I haven't had a chance (or need) to mess around with it.  Yet....

 



 


Thanks for that. I like the 1/3 tune. Checked out SkiMD. Major bucks for a tune. Tommy's at Vail has all the fancy automated green machines and charged me $49 for a full tune - resurfacing of bottoms, restructure (suitable for conditions), edge preparation, waxing and hand finish. But I may just have to give SkiMD tune a go. Which flavor have you used?


Edited by deliberate1 - 3/9/11 at 11:47am
post #18 of 26

I think you ought to ski it before you worry about the tune. Persoally, I like mine with a bit more than 1 degree on the base. Usually I go for less. My RX's are at .7, but I didn't like my 78s at 1 degree.

 

As for binding and plate I've skied it flat, with the KTi and with Marker WC Piston plate and like it best with the Marker and least flat. The Marker let's ou move fore/aft and change delta. The KTi let's you move fore/aft.

post #19 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

I think you ought to ski it before you worry about the tune. Persoally, I like mine with a bit more than 1 degree on the base. Usually I go for less. My RX's are at .7, but I didn't like my 78s at 1 degree.

 

As for binding and plate I've skied it flat, with the KTi and with Marker WC Piston plate and like it best with the Marker and least flat. The Marker let's ou move fore/aft and change delta. The KTi let's you move fore/aft.


Sensible about the tune. I plan to bring them to the Gathering (assuming all stars align). If tune no good, I could get them shined up at Tommy's in Vail. As for bindings, just spoke to Tom in Vt who is the NA Vist guy. He will mount TT plates for $150 and plug other holes. He just loves that plate on everything. At least between the two that I own, would have to agree. Again, the lateral adjustment can be magic.
 

 

post #20 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post

He will mount TT plates for $150 and plug other holes.

 


 

Sounds like a winner. Is Tom down at Stratton?

post #21 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




 

Sounds like a winner. Is Tom down at Stratton?


Yep. Other thing about the TT plate, other than adding little if any stiffnes to the flex, VIST makes a 4mm plate that fits seamlessly between the plate and the toe piece, thereby reducing the ramp (or is it delta) angle from the default 7mm or so. Very slick. And they only make this for the TT. With the Speedlock plates, you would have to shim the plate. That would make me nervous.
 

 

post #22 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post




Yep. Other thing about the TT plate, other than adding little if any stiffnes to the flex, VIST makes a 4mm plate that fits seamlessly between the plate and the toe piece, thereby reducing the ramp (or is it delta) angle from the default 7mm or so. Very slick. And they only make this for the TT. With the Speedlock plates, you would have to shim the plate. That would make me nervous.


I have te Speedlock plate and was wondering how you could possibly do this. The fact that you can't explains my bewilderment.

 

post #23 of 26
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post




I have te Speedlock plate and was wondering how you could possibly do this. The fact that you can't explains my bewilderment.

 


Take off your toe piece and turn it upside down. You will see two notches in the pins that protrude through the plate into the lock system. Those two settings are 4mm apart and accomodate the 4mm shim that goes between the toe and the TT plate. So no shim, top notch locks. With shim, bottom one does. I tried putting the shim between the Speedlock plate and 614 toe, and no go. The pin is not long enough to go through the shim and the Speedlock plate. Brilliant - to a point. Why would you not be able to shim a Speedlock plate in the same way? Seems to me that they do sell a Speedlock version that is not flat - higher in the front. Maybe that is it. Or mabey it is just because it is.

post #24 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post
Why would you not be able to shim a Speedlock plate in the same way? Seems to me that they do sell a Speedlock version that is not flat - higher in the front. Maybe that is it. Or mabey it is just because it is.


You're right deliberate1.  The VIST Speedlock plates are available in different ramp angles so that you can choose your flavor and don't have to shim (as I discovered after we were both talking about it a couple of month's ago).

 

post #25 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by deliberate1 View Post




Take off your toe piece and turn it upside down. You will see two notches in the pins that protrude through the plate into the lock system. Those two settings are 4mm apart and accomodate the 4mm shim that goes between the toe and the TT plate. So no shim, top notch locks. With shim, bottom one does. I tried putting the shim between the Speedlock plate and 614 toe, and no go. The pin is not long enough to go through the shim and the Speedlock plate. Brilliant - to a point. Why would you not be able to shim a Speedlock plate in the same way? Seems to me that they do sell a Speedlock version that is not flat - higher in the front. Maybe that is it. Or mabey it is just because it is.


My pins do have two notches, but the Speedlock plate locks on the bottom notch, so no can shim. I guess the TT plate must lock onto the top shim.

 

post #26 of 26
Quote:
Originally Posted by epic View Post

My pins do have two notches, but the Speedlock plate locks on the bottom notch, so no can shim. I guess the TT plate must lock onto the top shim.

 

 

Correct.  That's what deliberate1 was describing.  The only way to shim the Speedlock is to do it under the plate, not under the binding like you can with the TT plate.
 

 

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