Too funny BWP - I had just read your review of the 187 Bones - thanks for the info. Hope you had a great Summer.
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2012 Blizzard Bonafide - Page 7post #181 of 4628/27/11 at 6:57pm
Gear mentioned in this thread:post #182 of 4628/27/11 at 9:12pm
When you're talking about a ski with both a tip and tail rocker, in general it's probably best to error on the long side...
Quote:Originally Posted by Noodler
With Labor day right around the corner it's time to start thinkin' skiin' again...
So I'm in a debate on length for the Bones. I'm leaning toward the 187cm, but I'm wondering if the dimensions are identical to the 180cm. I think I saw somewhere that the 187cm is listed with a 21.5m sidecut radius which is surprising given that the 180cm has a 21.0m. So can someone look at an actual pair of 187s and confirm the dimensions?
I tested the 180 a few times and loved it, but when I look at my quiver and think about when and where I would use the Bones I think that the 187 is actually the better fit.
TIApost #183 of 4628/28/11 at 6:28ampost #184 of 4629/20/11 at 8:06pm
I was reading your posts and it has me debating my choices. I picked up a 185 Armada JJ for my powder ski and was looking at getting the Bonafide for an everyday ski. I'm 5'10", 160 lbs, 37 yrs old and have been skiing for the past 25 yrs. The debate I'm having is whether to get the Bonafide in a 180 or a 173 size. I ski in north idaho and out west and want something that is fun to ski, but not too much like the JJ's that I already have. Any input from someone with knowledge of the way the Bonafides ski would be great. thanks in advance for the input.post #185 of 4629/22/11 at 9:18am
180 for sure! On all the Flipcore skis you can go longer. In all the feedback I got last spring generally longer was better
unless you're a timid skier. You get all the positive aspects of longer skis like stability and comfort/control at speed yet
they are easy to maneuver when you need them to be.post #186 of 4629/27/11 at 5:45pm
Is anyone familiar with the club skifields of South Island NZ - in particular the type of snow (off Piste) we get here
Reason for asking? I like the sound of the Bonafides and have a chance to get hold of a pair at 180cm, but at my Height of 5'6" and 145lbs am wondering if they might be too much ski for me.
From a couple of demos I have done so far I am OK with the feel of the wider skis in our crud snow and heavy shallow powder
My current skis are 168cm 5 star Volkl supersport which I picked up as an interim measure to get back into skiing. They work fine for me, but probably a wee bit skinny...
30 years skiing, age 56, pretty much prefer off piste (25% on/75% off). We tend to have sometimes short but usually uncrowded runs at the places I ski.
Thankspost #187 of 4629/28/11 at 2:40amMy observatins over several years are that Ski length recommendations on Epic always seem to err on the long side. I think that imight be because a majority of the posters ski more wide open larger western areas with loads of powder, instead of smaller more tree and ice covered eastern slopes.
I seriously doubt if any of the western ski posters recommending a 180 or 187 Bonafide even ever demoed this ski in a 173. Regardless of flip core or minor early rise/rocker, I know that for me (5'9"-190 lb Type III 62 year old) this ski would be best in a 173 as my main ski for all of the tight trees and bumps (& ice) at Sugarbush, and that I would choose the 180 only if it were to be my annual ski week ski of choice.post #188 of 4629/28/11 at 3:21am
Thanks for that. I have trouble comparing the Bonafides to "narrow" skis such as we have been using because the width is so different. NZ ski slopes are are above the bushline, so tight skiing is not common. The main reason for wanting the Bonafides is their ability in crud and powder, and realistically they would be my everyday ski.
Like you I also sort of suspect the shorter version would be preferable but it is not on offer in my situation. My (hopeful) thinking was that 180 rocker would not be so different from the 168 Volkl, but just don't know how the width affects the equation.
Have a good season - Ours is just now finishingpost #189 of 4629/28/11 at 6:20am
Come on over here and continue your season in 2012.
I used to ski a Volkl 5star and All Star in a 168. My present ski is a Line Prophet 100 in a 172cm. But, I am putting the Prophets on the back burner and moving to a Bonafide in the 173 length. The transition from the 168 Volkl to the 172 Prophet was a seamless one for me....much easier than when I demoed the 179 Prophets. My recollection is that the Bonafides are easier to ski and turn a bit easier than the Prophets, so you probably can make do with the 180's, but maybe you should try them before you buy them!post #190 of 4629/28/11 at 10:10amQuote:Originally Posted by Gostan
My observatins over several years are that Ski length recommendations on Epic always seem to err on the long side. Funny because we think TGR is the king of uber-length recs; we're the short-is-right folks. FWIW, several frequent lighterweight posters like 180 Blizzies in eastern trees, myself included. the 173 length will probably be more fun in bumps, less fun in crud. YMMV. IME, tip/tail rocker = 5=7 cm of ski, so I move up one increment. Agree with other folks on this thread that rocker requires a rethink of assumptions about length and width.post #191 of 4629/28/11 at 10:38am
I'm 5'8" 145. My only experience on a 98 (or close) waste is on the Mantra and it was 178 which felt good to me in deep and chunky but maybe a bit heavy and slow on hard pack. Any advice on length for a set of Bonafides for me? I've been skiing 36 years, 41 now. Days limited with mortgage and kids but still like to go harder than 95% of the people I see on the mountain. Predominantly Tahoe skiing, steep as possible, trees and soft with very limited bumps. Fast as possible when groomed is all that's available.post #192 of 4629/28/11 at 12:20pm
Hah! I like to think I might - If we ger a half decent payout on the house...Happy Turning.post #193 of 4629/28/11 at 12:32pm
IMHO, the Bonafide can ski short..if you want it to ski short. It is not like a S3 or S7 that you have to automatically upsize. I am 5'10" 190 and skiing a 180 Bonafide. For where i have it in my quiver it is perfect. Could I ski a 187? Yea, but I don't feel I am loosing anything with the 180, YMMV but don't think you have to go big or go home with the sizing.post #194 of 4629/28/11 at 2:30pmpost #195 of 4629/28/11 at 2:50pmpost #196 of 4629/28/11 at 3:12pmpost #197 of 4629/28/11 at 9:36pmpost #198 of 4629/29/11 at 5:20pmpost #199 of 4629/30/11 at 4:34am
be careful here! the newer designs of 'rockered" (this is a catch-all term these days and not entirely accurate) skis can vary considerably in the way they ski. most of the new designs are condition specific meaning that a ski like the Bonafide has a profile that is ideal for all around performance, it has a fair amount of run (meaning the "rocker" extends farther down the traditional contact point) but only a slight/moderate amount of "rise: (height above normal rise of a traditional ski) however, it also has moved the TR point of contact towards the tip which does 2 things; 1- it provides a wider point of snow contact in the powder creating more efficient float 2: it extends the effective running length of the ski when tipped on edge. the ski will hook up with the widest point of the ski which extends beyond the run/rise. So don't confuse a powder oriented ski that has a much more rise. You have some interesting and rather effective designs like the DPS 112rp that are using this design to create a ski that has a much wider range of performance than just 2 seasons ago. ON3P has also integrated this design into some of their ski like Billy Goat.
I have said this before but you have to re-evaluate the length of skis with rockered profiles. The way they are measured differs; some use pre-rockered length, some use post rockered length. The running length is also a factor so a powder oriented rockered ski will have a shorted effective running length (in general) than a ski like a Bonafide or Mantra or Sentinel (etc.) which are designed to have more effective running lengths on the groomed or harder surfaces. So... stop thinking that 180 or 173 is the right size......
Quote:post #200 of 4629/30/11 at 7:17am
^^^^^ What he said, better than I can. I'll ship in with personal experience: The Flipcore does not ski "short" like say a S3. Rather, it does this weird Harry Potter bus thing where it expands when you're on edge and contracts as you go off edge. Very linear accordion-like, no hiccups. And very noticeable, which is either cool or disconcerting or seamless depending on your POV. But IMO it's a more stable and transitional snow-friendly design than the "older" rocker that was amazing in real pow but felt like whoa! snowblades on hardpack. I'd include the S3/S7 in the latter group, I happen to enjoy the sudden downsizing in bumps and such, but it's not what you want to carve on, while you can carve Flipcore all day if that's your thing.
IMO a 173 would be fine for you. As would a 180, but it'll be a different kind of ski, more big mountain.post #201 of 4629/30/11 at 7:50amQuote:
You are IN BETWEEN the 173 and 180 (no they will not make a 177 for you ;-)) . Right now there are many cooks in the kitchen (both on this forum and elsewhere you have been seeking info) suggesting both sizes and all have valid points. Going by what is written, my gut tells me the 173 for you. Getting down to it, it is just a ski, either size has its pluses and minuses and both will do a great job in 80% of what you want them to do. It comes down to the 173, will be a bit more nimble and finesse and the 180 will be a bit more stable and driving. At that point, it is not what WE think, it is what YOU want.post #202 of 4629/30/11 at 10:38am
I'm 5'11", 175lbs., type 7-8 skier. I get 25+ days a year in Oregon. My AC3s are 170 (getting retired). My S7s are 188. I'm thinking a 180 Bone is about right, but just wanted some reassurance. Any reason to consider 173? Thanks!
Mpost #203 of 4629/30/11 at 11:12am
I'm 6' 205 and ordered the 187 for east type skiing here in the U.P.
Quote:post #204 of 4629/30/11 at 3:24pmThe bottom line is that the Flipcore on the new Blizzards ski pretty true to length. So do not get too stuck in the rocker skis shorter mentality ofyore and other manufacturers ski brands.. My ski shop told me that this was confirmed to them by their Blizzard ski rep! Simply enjoy these great skis and go with your gut, not with what other pundits may say.post #205 of 46210/1/11 at 11:58am
Everyone should heed what Philpug is saying -- there is no "right" size per se with some of these wide performance envelope, versatile all mountain skis. An advanced or expert skier will be perfectly able to ski various sizes and get different performance attributes out of each. So it's really about terrain, skiing style, and what you like to get out of the ski.
Re the Bone: I do know a few people who ski a lot of skis each year, including Dawgcatching, who have said they were talked into trying the Bone longer than they ordinarily would have and enjoyed it at the longer length. Dawg, who's only about 150 lbs., told me the Blizzi rep urged him to demo the 187 instead of the 180 and he loved it at that length even though most other high 180s skis have always felt like a lot of ski to him.
I'm 44, 5'9" 162 lbs. aggressive former racer -- was assuming I would go 180 until I talked to Dawg and then decided to order 187. I'm sure I would enjoy the 180 as well and would find it a little more playful, quick in bumps etc. But I will use this ski mostly in Jackson, the Cottonwoods and the like (ie, big, open mountains) as an all mountain ski when the hill is skied out, cruddy etc, and I decided to go for the greater stability, somewhat more charging character of the longer ski over the nimble benefits of the smaller. But that's just about a trade-off I wanted to make. If I were super into bumps or tight trees or were using the ski more in the east, likely would have gone 180. FWIW, I ski the Titan Argos (the original one w/out rocker) in 180 and like them at that length, but they are way burlier than the bone (btw, selling the Argoses if anyone's interested -- great charging crud busters), Lhasa Pows in 186 (and have considered going up to 191), and have usually skied anything with low 80s to low 90s waists in the high 170s.
I wonder if we'll see a Bone in 194 give/take next year given how many medium sized people are liking the longest length.post #206 of 46210/3/11 at 4:01am
Not to hijack this thread re the Bone...
Would a Bushwacker work for a 1-ski quiver at Tahoe for a 155-lb aggressive skier who doesn't ski much virgin powder at Tahoe?...
Current ski is 08 Dstar Legend Pro Rider, 176, 97mm waist.
Thoughts....Philpug, Alexn, Beyond, et alpost #207 of 46210/3/11 at 8:28am
Hey nfp, what's up? I've only skied the Bushwacker briefly in the east, some chunk and crud, IMO it would work nicely if you like a lively feel, and sought out trees and bumps. Ski will be stable, super easy in tight conditions, and a demon carver, but you'll feel the mank and crud and chop. Personally, I'd go for something a touch beefier. Can't say if that translates to the Bonafide; tradeoff in carving and quickness as you jump 10 mm. If Kastle made a MX88 with early rise I would be so instantly all over it...post #208 of 46210/3/11 at 9:32amQuote:
I think it could, That in a 173 or even the Bonafide in a 166. Both will have you grinning.
Quote:Originally Posted by beyond
Hey nfp, what's up? I've only skied the Bushwacker briefly in the east, some chunk and crud, IMO it would work nicely if you like a lively feel, and sought out trees and bumps. Ski will be stable, super easy in tight conditions, and a demon carver, but you'll feel the mank and crud and chop. Personally, I'd go for something a touch beefier. Can't say if that translates to the Bonafide; tradeoff in carving and quickness as you jump 10 mm. If Kastle made a MX88 with early rise I would be so instantly all over it...
Taking deposits now.
post #209 of 46210/3/11 at 1:22pmThread Starter
Neil- ALthough I have not been on the Bushwacker, I think you will feel major differences if you jump from a 97mm old ProRider (that skis like a tank; I know that shorter length is softer) to a 88mm rockered ski. I think there is no reason to go narrower than mid-90's in the Sierras. Since you are on the LPRs it is not like you are used to a skinny carver anyway. So, I'd go for a Bonafide or even Cochise, especially if it is a OSQ, you will need the extra width on a powder day. Say what you want, but to me an 88mm ski will not have enough float for aggressive skiing in Tahoe.
BW really sounds like an East Coast version of the Bone to me.post #210 of 46210/3/11 at 9:48pmQuote:
Phil, you telegraphing something a little birdie might have whisered about the 2012-13 Kastle line? Or just musing about interesting possibilities? I just ordered a pair of MX88s ... wondering if I should be thinking about holding off a year.
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