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Summit County Area Hierarchy

post #1 of 37
Thread Starter 

Headed up to Summit County in about a week, and am going to be there for a full week. I'll be staying in Dillon with some friends of all experience levels of skiing, from total beginner to advanced. I was wondering in what order you would prioritize the different ski areas, and why? I'm pretty familiar with the area, and have some opinions, but would like to hear if I'm missing out on anything. Here's my list:

 

1.) Loveland - No lift lines, great skiing, cheap, incredibly convenient parking, no crowds.

2.) A-Basin - Same as above + great steeps. Snow conditions seem to vary a lot, though?

3.) Keystone - Expensive, Not as low key as the above, but a wide enough variety of terrain there's something for everyone, huge!

4.) Breckenridge - Expensive, flatter, more beginner terrain (good for my noob friends).

5.) Copper Mountain - Had my worst experiences here...free parking hella far, super long lift lines, every run was insanely crowded...I'm giving it another chance this time, though. Maybe I just went on a bad day.

6.) Cooper - Nice and cheap, low key, but only near the bottom of the list because I've never been there. Should I try it?

7.) Vail - Farther from Dillon, very expensive.

 

I'm thinking I'll just be skiing Loveland, A-Basin, Copper, and POSSIBLY Keystone (not exactly a priority). Do you all think I have this list right? I know it's not a big deal, and I'm going to have a blast regardless of where I ski, but just wanted to hear some different opinions.

post #2 of 37

IF you have a car and are up for Steamboat, i will be there 12-22.. 

post #3 of 37

Copper and Loveland will be by far (and I mean very far) the least crowded places on that list except for Cooper which isn't worth your time.

post #4 of 37

Not a bad list. I guess it all depends on what you're looking for. I personally dislike Breck and Keystone somehwat unless I am with a local who knows the mountain really well. Then they can be really fun.

 

Though, same could be said for most mountains.

 

Have fun dude!

post #5 of 37

Copper's free parking is by far the most convenient of all the major resorts in Summit County.  A-basin and Loveland I consider ski areas and yes they are more convenient.  The bus from Copper to the base is easy to deal with, runs frequently, drops you pretty close to the slopes and isn't the old style school buses that Keystone uses that I find difficult.  Keystone's walk from parking is far and forces you to spend a lot of time on concrete walkways which can be both slippery and hard on boots.  Breck's parking in my mind is the worst.  Ugh.  On race days when I have to be there I make sure to be there before they start charging at the base lots so I just don't have to deal with it.  I had one time when the bus was mis-labeled and took me to the wrong base area.  The skiing, once you get to the upper mountain there can be good. 

 

As far as lines, Copper, so long as you're not trying to use American Eagle, American Flyer or Timberline Express generally are pretty darn good.  Not sure when you were last there but I suspect you'll find less crowding in general as the Epic Pass has lightened the crowds there.  I skied Monday and I don't think I waited in line once, except for the line our group created. 

post #6 of 37

If you are going midweek, and going with a group of wide variation in skill, I think that the 3 best bets are LL, Breck and Copper. Breck is definitely not "flatter" as you suggested- there are plenty of steeps (>40 degrees), trees, etc, but you have to know where to find them. There is also lots of easy terrain (I think their blue ratings are easier than other places) which will be good for the novices and intermediates in your group. Downside is the paid parking (but there is still one free lot, if you get there early) and it still is cheaper than the paid parking in Vail, and if you're in DIllon you can take the bus if you want to save money and avoid parking.

post #7 of 37

Ski Cooper is a great place to take beginners.

 

I'd stick to Loveland on weekends.  A-Basin is great but smaller and busier (but not as much as the destination resorts).  I prefer Copper over Breck these days, mostly due to the increasingly hostile parking situation, but the skiing is fine at both places, and lines aren't much of an issue on weekdays.

 

Keystone I just find boring.  I guess I'm not doing it right. wink.gif

post #8 of 37

You have it about right . I used to spend winters in Silverthorne , and would disagree somewhat with your assessment of Copper , which has great terrain and not as many crowds as you described . Ski Cooper is about 45 minutes away . It's a laid back place with limited terrain but with no crowds . I patrolled there for a few years .

 

Hope you have a great time !

post #9 of 37

My experience is that you're dead-on, although I don't know Loveland or Cooper. Even the "I don't like Copper but maybe it was a bad day" is right on my experience. Breck is flat with gapers and Keystone is underrated is also my feel. Maybe there are steeps at Breck, but if you have to try so hard to find them, then just go to A-Basin where they're in your face.

 

If you go out to the farthest hill at Keystone they have some great trees all over, and a $5 snocat ride that takes you to some good freshies if they're to be had.

 

I'd skip Copper and go to Keystone.

post #10 of 37

Not even 12 hours off the plane from Keystone and A-basin. Tons of terrain out there right now but a lot of OB is wind scoured from the huge winds last Sunday. Keystone is in good shape (spent 6 days) with the trees full and some nice lines on the bowls. A-basin was really good too but 'Zuma was rock solid Wednesday; it was near 45 on Tuesday and well below freezing Wed. morning. I did not ski Loveland but looked good from 70 and another forum said it has been going off there. Plus, I believe it was not beat up as bad by the winds.

 

My list (depending on snow, wind, type of skiing and temp)

 

1. A-basin

2. Loveland

3. Keystone

post #11 of 37

Some scattered thoughts.

 

Don't discount the steeps @ Loveland & Breck -- they have plenty.  Intermediates & below in your party might get bored w/ Loveland & A-Basin; the cruisers are relatively short & uninspiring.  Loveland is hit or miss w/ snow & weather.  Wind deposits on leeward faces can yield untracked for days after a snow, but wind can also scour & pack pretty quickly, and weather can be great or it can be brutal above timberline.  Snow on lower north faces @ Loveland holds up better than most places in the Spring -- the steeps off Lift 1 & South Chutes/Tomahawk area to skier's left off Firebowl.

 

High altitude might be more of an issue for the unacclimated @ Loveland, A-Basin, & Breck.

 

Keystone parking is not great.  The hill offers something for most everyone, but lacking in steeps.  You can spend all day doing yo-yo in the Outback and have lots of fun in glades & ego bumps.  But it's scary coming off the mountain at the end of day, with bodies flying everywhere.  (Think safety, and git the h@#! outta my way!)

 

Stay on the east side of Copper for fewer crowds, & go high for steep bowls (Spaulding Bowl especially).

 

Vail parking is a challenge unless you want to shell out $25 for the garage.  If you're thinking Vail, you should think Beaver Creek.  It's an extra 15 minutes but less crowded, good terrain variety w/ well maintained cruisers, & convenient free shuttle parking.

 

I think this deal is still on -- put 10 gallons in your tank at any metro area Shell station and get a 2-for-1 lift ticket voucher for Loveland, Copper, Winter Park. 

 

Drive to Cooper?  I don't think so.

 

Have fun. 

post #12 of 37
Thread Starter 

Great feedback! Glad to hear about Copper! It sounds like they must have really gotten their act together since the last time I was there. My girlfriend's best friend knows a ski patroller there, so we're hopefully going to get to hang out and ski with him for day. I'm sure it will be way better with a tour from someone who knows the place. I think it was so bad the last time I was there, because it was around Denver school's Spring Break, AND it was a weekend. Now it makes sense. I'll probably go on like a Wednesday. Haha. Happy to hear those crowds aren't normal. Plus their tickets are cheaper than the Vail/Breck/Keystone.

 

Thanks to someone's suggestions on these forums, I bought some Colorado Gems Cards. They came in last week, so I'll have some insanely cheap skiing at Loveland and A-Basin!

 

Sounds like I'll skip Cooper (not to be confused with Copper) all together. Thanks for the invite to Steamboat, Finndogg, but I'm gonna stick to Summit County since there are so many options here, and all my group (plus a group of locals we're meeting) will be here too. Appreciate it, though!

 

 

 

 

post #13 of 37

1. Breck has plenty of steeps, and they do stare you in the face.  Everything above Peaks 7 and 8 is pretty steep, open and sustained.  Peak 7 Bowl and Horsehoe Bowl have the best snow on the hill and are pretty easy to get to.  Just do laps on the Tbar or Chair 6 + Imperial Express combo.  Even after skiing Alta/Snowbird recently I was impressed with the terrain up there.  Only negative is low visibility in bad weather.  E chair also pretty steep, but gets bumped out.

 

2. Would say Keystone isn't really for everyone, has no steeps.

post #14 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post

1. Breck has plenty of steeps, and they do stare you in the face.  Everything above Peaks 7 and 8 is pretty steep, open and sustained.  Peak 7 Bowl and Horsehoe Bowl have the best snow on the hill and are pretty easy to get to.  Just do laps on the Tbar or Chair 6 + Imperial Express combo.  Even after skiing Alta/Snowbird recently I was impressed with the terrain up there.  Only negative is low visibility in bad weather.  E chair also pretty steep, but gets bumped out.

 

The good thing is I have enough time there this trip to venture out a bit more. I might check it out. Have they improved the parking situation there? Because last time I went to Breck to scope it out, it was kind of a nightmare to find parking anywhere remotely close to the mountain. I love places where I don't need a bus. Hence, why I love the simplicity of Loveland. Hop out of the car, pop on your boots, and bam...the lifts are right there. It's always kinda awkward walking around in ski boots, while carrying skis/poles, so close parking to the lifts is definitely a plus
 

 

post #15 of 37

They do have parking real close to the lifts @ Peak 9, and to a gondola that takes you to Peak 8.  I doubt those lots fill on nonholiday weekdays.  I stayed in a condo at the base and luckily didn't have to deal with that issue.  Good luck!

post #16 of 37
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post

They do have parking real close to the lifts @ Peak 9, and to a gondola that takes you to Peak 8.  I doubt those lots fill on nonholiday weekdays.  I stayed in a condo at the base and luckily didn't have to deal with that issue.  Good luck!


But, those are not free parking just to be clear. 

 

post #17 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by hirustler View Post

They do have parking real close to the lifts @ Peak 9, and to a gondola that takes you to Peak 8.  I doubt those lots fill on nonholiday weekdays.  I stayed in a condo at the base and luckily didn't have to deal with that issue.  Good luck!

Just checked into the parking situation, and it still does not look like fun to be honest. According to the Breckenridge website: "Please Note:  There is no parking at the base of Peak 8."

http://www.breckenridge.com/mountain/mountain-information.aspx#parking#Top

 

Best looking lot looks like the one by the gondola. Free parking is way out there, though.

Parking at Breck = This: http://www.breckenridge.com/~/media/breckenridge/files/maps/parking_map.ashx

 

As opposed to this @ Loveland:

loveland-parking-2.jpg
 

No matter what, though. I'll at least make my way to the brewery for sure! Love their IPA.

post #18 of 37

Winter Park/Mary Jane?


 

post #19 of 37

Loveland was packed today and the snow was horrible.  I would never go there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rolleyes.gif

post #20 of 37
Thread Starter 

^^Hahaha. Riiiiiight. I almost forgot. That place totally blows. wink.gif

 

Nobody should go there until I have a chance to re-inspect it, you know...just to make sure.

post #21 of 37


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

Loveland was packed today and the snow was horrible.  I would never go there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

rolleyes.gif


And, it's always windy and the food is overpriced too! :)

 

post #22 of 37

WP/MJ are a hike and tough drive from Summit Cty, esp if the weather sucks.  I won't comment on the skiing, though, as I grew up there and am more than a little partial.

 

Keystone (do they still call it SkiStoned?)...less boring than before, though.  The comment about end-of-day traffic is spot on, though: funnel in full effect, it's Death Race 2000 to the base.

 

A-Basin is awesome.  If you can ski it.  And still breathe.  Intermediate and lower skiers won't get it.

 

Loveland is great, too, for good skiers.  But if the weather sucks elsewhere in Summit Cty, expect it to be worse there. 

 

Breck has awesome terrain higher up.  The town and lower mountain attract...uh, not my cup of tea.  

 

Copper has great terrain, and an amazing natural layout.  Stay out of the center of the mountain, and you'll be ok, but if you and your crew are looking for intermediate groomers, expect to wait in line.  Parking there has sucked for three decades.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by agent.5 View Post

Winter Park/Mary Jane?


 



 

post #23 of 37

I think a lot of it depends on weather and recent snow fall. 

 

All else being equal, I would much rather ski Keystone or Copper on a windy storm day than Loveland, A-Basin or Breck.  Powder will certainly last longest at Loveland (but the lifts are slow and a lot is above treeline which provides some nice bowl skiing, but not much protection from wind).

 

Agree that you should give Copper another chance.  When Copper has moderate to heavy crowds, things are probably a joke at Breck with more waiting than skiing.

 

If you were staying in Frisco, I'd say the best free parking is to take the Summit Stage right to the Gondi in Breck and Passage Point (or around to the Super Bee) in Copper.  From Dillon it is a different story but the best options are probably to hit A-Basin and Keystone early to get good spaces.  While I would rate Beaver Creek more highly, Keystone is a nice mountain with a good mix of terrain and enough snow this year to get off the groomers.  Nothing as steep as the top of Breck, but better glades.

 

Discount wise, Loveland, Copper & A-Basin are probably best.  

post #24 of 37
Hi Austin--

As a long-time instructor who has worked at all of these areas (Breckenridge, Keystone, Arapahoe Basin, Vail, and currently Copper), I can tell you that you can find great skiing for pretty much anyone at any of them. Each has its own personality and quirks, and you'll certainly get the most out of any of them with a knowledgeable local guide or instructor.

Loveland and Arapahoe Basin are considerably smaller than the major resorts of Keystone, Breck, Copper, and Vail, but they can knock your socks off on a good day. There's no lodging or dining beyond the typical cafeteria fare, so people go there for one reason only: to ski. Most of the lifts are slow fixed-grip chairs. That's not necessarily a bad thing--they keep the people who seek just quantity away, and give you a good restful break between runs on some truly awesome and generally uncrowded terrain--at least on week days. Both can draw quite a crowd on weekends, so if you go, get there early for a good parking place. Both are legends, where the raw, unadulterated spirit of skiing remains alive and well. Go there with respect!

To describe Breckenridge as "flat" is to not know Breckenridge very well. It has some of the best steeps in Colorado, between the terrain off the T-Bar (Horseshoe Bowl), the upper terrain on Peak 7, the Lake Chutes and other terrain from the Imperial Express chair, and the glades and bumps off E lift, among others. There's no doubt that it helps to have a guide (and the ski school is the home of a bunch of top pros), but even without one, the upgraded lift system over the past several years has made getting around the mountains of Breckenridge much easier and more intuitive. The biggest problem with Breckenridge, as others have noted, is parking. I'd plan to bite the bullet and park in the pay lot at the new Gondola. Another very good option is to take the free Summit Stage bus and avoid the problem altogether. From Dillon, your best bet might be to drive to the main transfer center in Frisco (behind Walmart) and take the direct bus to Breckenridge. The other common complaint about Breckenridge can be the weather--it's notorious for wind.

Keystone is perhaps the most under-rated resort in Summit County. Although it has had some pretty good terrain for nearly thirty years since the opening of North Peak, it has had a hard time shedding its early reputation as a beginner and intermediate resort. The front side of Keystone is nearly all groomed green and blue runs--and as others have said, they can get extremely crowded with over-zealous, under-skilled skiers and boarders. But North Peak and The Outback add some very good bumps and--especially--open glades and tree runs. The lift lines can get long, but the ungroomed runs, at least, are rarely crowded. Nothing there is breathtakingly steep, but there really is some good skiing to be found at Keystone, if you know where to look. Keystone also has the only night-skiing in the region. It's an acquired taste, but with the new gondola and the warmth of the Summit House, along with a pair of clear-lensed goggles, it can be magic. Keystone is surely the most sheltered of Summit County's resorts, as well as the lowest in elevation (although with a base elevation of over 9300', it certainly is not low)--making it a good bet when the howling Rocky Mountain winds kick up. Parking is OK--free in the huge lot at the River Run (gondola) base, although you do have to walk all the way through the village to get to the lifts. Unfortunately, the Summit Stage bus route to Keystone meanders all over the place and takes seemingly forever from just about anywhere, so I probably wouldn't bother with it. Keystone's biggest drawback tends to be significantly less snowfall than any other resort in Colorado, although this season, at least, it has had great snow and the conditions should be more than fine. When Keystone does get a good dump, the (not inexpensive, unfortunately) snowcat service can get you into some of the best powder skiing in Summit County.

Copper Mountain is the perennial locals' favorite in Summit County, and for good reason. It has a little of everything, and a whole lot of most things. The groomed runs on the front side are some of the longest and most consistent--and least crowded (although they can get busy)--anywhere. You'll find long bump runs off the Alpine Lift on the east side, awesome steeps with long-lasting powder on Union Peak, Spaulding Bowl, Copper Bowl, and (via the free snow cat) Tucker Mountain, as well as great trees, astonishing views, and Copper's renowned "naturally separated terrain" that provides the best easy learning runs for beginners, totally segregated from the speeding advanced skiers elsewhere on the mountain. Copper Bowl offers a great variety of off-piste steeps, although its southern exposure can make for challenging conditions sometimes, particularly in the morning following long sunny spring days. Parking is reasonable, with free-parking in the huge outlying Alpine Lot at the east end of the resort, and a reliable, free bus shuttle service to the rest of the resort. There are also pay lots within the resort, within reasonable walking distance from the lifts. And the Summit Stage is very convenient from Frisco. With new ownership, Copper Mountain anticipates considerable upgrades to lifts and other facilities in the next few seasons, but currently the lifts are a mix of modern high-speed quads and a six-passenger chair, along with a few old fixed-grip chairs. One high-speed Poma (platter-pull surface lift) runs along the exposed Hallelujah Ridge to serve Spaulding Bowl and other steeps to the west and south--worth riding (for advanced skiers) in all but the worst weather. Perhaps Copper's weakest point, for some, is the relative lack of on-mountain dining choices, but the cafeterias in the base areas are above average--especially (in my opinion) Copper Station in the East Village, with its many daily $5.99 specials (you can't even buy a plate of french fries for that in some Colorado resorts). On the mountain, the only indoor lunch spot is Solitude Station, mid-mountain at the top of the American Eagle chair. All-in-all, I think you'll have a great time at Copper Mountain. Lift lines are rare, although not entirely unheard of on busy weekends and holidays--especially in the Center Village (Eagle and Flyer lifts), and the Poma line can take a while when the weather is good.

Copper Mountain and Breckenridge typically--but not always--get the most snow in Summit County. Breck, Loveland, and Arapahoe Basin get the most wind and Loveland and A-Basin--with so much above-treeline terrain--can get especially inhospitable when the weather turns severe.

They are all first-rate ski areas. Enjoy!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #25 of 37
Thread Starter 

Wow! Thanks for the great summary, Mr. Barnes! You hit the nail on the head as to why I love Loveland so much. I've had some of my best ski days ever there. I'm going to have to print out your synopsis to take with me on the trip! Glad you put in a good word for Keystone. I've also experienced some great skiing there, of course with some of the finest instruction I've had. I always find myself having to defend that place, though. Seems a lot of people still rag on it for the reasons you stated above. At the same time, I guess I was wrong about my preconceived notions about Breck being relatively flat. I shall check it out, and at both Breck and Copper, I'll just suck it up and pay for parking.

 

BTW, I didn't know you were at Copper now. Are you currently teaching, or in charge of the ski school there right now?

post #26 of 37

Just got back from 3 weeks in Colorado.  Stayed in a Dillon condo and had pass for Breck/Keystone/A-Basin.  Been skiing there for 25 years and have been to all the areas mentioned.  Not a bad one in the bunch.

 

Just a quick update on Breck parking.  The lots at the gondola are convenient and relatively cheap - $5 Monday to Thursday, and $10 on Friday to Sunday.  If you have 4 or more in the car it's $5 off, so free or $5.  If you get there before 9 and park in the north lot, you will be right at the gondola and up at the Peak 8 base withing minutes.  Peak 8 has the best access to the advanced terrain at Breck (T-bar, Chair 6, Imperial Express).  I rarely go to Peak 9 or 10. 

post #27 of 37
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimH View Post

Just got back from 3 weeks in Colorado.  Stayed in a Dillon condo and had pass for Breck/Keystone/A-Basin.  Been skiing there for 25 years and have been to all the areas mentioned.  Not a bad one in the bunch.

 

Just a quick update on Breck parking.  The lots at the gondola are convenient and relatively cheap - $5 Monday to Thursday, and $10 on Friday to Sunday.  If you have 4 or more in the car it's $5 off, so free or $5.  If you get there before 9 and park in the north lot, you will be right at the gondola and up at the Peak 8 base withing minutes.  Peak 8 has the best access to the advanced terrain at Breck (T-bar, Chair 6, Imperial Express).  I rarely go to Peak 9 or 10. 

 

Thanks for the intel. So carpooling can mean free, good parking? Awesome! I was under the impression it may have been $5 per person. Glad I was wrong. Through this whole discussion, I've actually become particularly interested in seeing the advanced terrain at Breck, plus the bowls at Copper. Those are two things I completely missed out on last time due to my gaper brother. This time, I'll be skiing with my gf, and THANK GOD, she's about the same skill level as I am, and isn't afraid of "advanced" terrain. Wow, I'm a lucky man. :)



 

post #28 of 37


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by JimH View Post

Just got back from 3 weeks in Colorado.  Stayed in a Dillon condo and had pass for Breck/Keystone/A-Basin.  Been skiing there for 25 years and have been to all the areas mentioned.  Not a bad one in the bunch.

 

Just a quick update on Breck parking.  The lots at the gondola are convenient and relatively cheap - $5 Monday to Thursday, and $10 on Friday to Sunday.  If you have 4 or more in the car it's $5 off, so free or $5.  If you get there before 9 and park in the north lot, you will be right at the gondola and up at the Peak 8 base withing minutes.  Peak 8 has the best access to the advanced terrain at Breck (T-bar, Chair 6, Imperial Express).  I rarely go to Peak 9 or 10. 


Correct about the parking & resort assessment.  Can also access the t-bar from Peak 7.  Taking the Gondi up, I tend to spend most of my time on Imperial & the t-bar (conditions permitting) but as Bob B mentioned Peak 9 has some good skiing and so does 10, but it does depend on snow and weather conditions.  Skiers right off Falcon has some good double blacks, but they can get baked out as they face the sun- I didn't even bother going there when I was on 10 Thursday, but did hit the single blacks skiers left which were bump runs in nice shape.  The stuff off 9 Bob mentioned is mostly north facing, but certain parts have big enough rocks, etc. underneath to be considered snow challenged, so pay attention if you don't want to do p-tex work.  Breck is not the best in windy/stormy weather, but 9 & 10 tend to offer more protection than Imperial and the t-bar. 

 

Similar to Vail, much of the back bowl terrain at Copper faces the sun, so it is best not to hit it early morning after a warm sunny day.  With that said, there is lots of fun skiing there with the right conditions.

 

post #29 of 37
Quote:
BTW, I didn't know you were at Copper now. Are you currently teaching, or in charge of the ski school there right now?

Sorry for the delayed reply, Austin. I just now got caught up on this thread. But thank you for asking! Yes, I am back at Copper Mountain, where I previously spent five years before a stint at Vail and a few more seasons at Keystone. I am simply teaching again--no management role this year, although I do find a fair amount of time for instructor training--and I'm loving every moment of it!

Best regards,
Bob Barnes
post #30 of 37

Watch out--Spring Break is coming up again. Boulder schools are out March 21-25; not sure about Denver but you could check their web site.

 

I was at Copper last weekend and conditions were excellent. Some of the lifts that serve intermediate terrain had a short line at certain parts of the day, but all the good lifts you could just ski onto. We used B chair (Super Bee 6-pack) as the launching point  to get up on the mountain, and even after lunch there were no lines. American Eagle & Flyer may have been a different story.

 

There is a parking lot at the base of A lift (Alpine) - almost zero walk, but I'm not sure if it's free or whether there are facilities there. A lift is a slow double serving advanced terrain, so it might not be a good starting point for everyone in your group. That being said, the run called Formidable was a high-speed black groomer - lots of fun,

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by AustinFromSA View Post

Great feedback! Glad to hear about Copper! It sounds like they must have really gotten their act together since the last time I was there. My girlfriend's best friend knows a ski patroller there, so we're hopefully going to get to hang out and ski with him for day. I'm sure it will be way better with a tour from someone who knows the place. I think it was so bad the last time I was there, because it was around Denver school's Spring Break, AND it was a weekend. Now it makes sense. I'll probably go on like a Wednesday.

 

 

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