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SG vs GS skis on a masters SG course

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Im still batteling with the desision on what skis to buy for our 3 SG competitions this year. That adds up to 6 runs + some practise runs. I had allready desided on buying 3y old 193cm GS skis but today in a shop I was offered this years brand new Head mens 210cm SG skis for 450usd including bindings.

 

The question is really if SG skis are faster or not. Here is a photo from one of the tracks we are going to be racing on:

 

SG.jpg

post #2 of 23

Super-G skis. It will pay off in the long run.

post #3 of 23

I agree, plus SG skis are fun, and you know you want some. If the course is set like a GS just ski your GS skis.

post #4 of 23

Gs skis can hook up and launch you.  Safer on SG skis

post #5 of 23

It all really depends on the pitch of the race trail, and how they set.  Either way, I'd grab the SGs, just because it's such a deal.  If you come to like speed events, at some point you're going to want to have them.   A SG ski can be used in tame DH events sometimes too.   If a course is set such that you can carve them through it, it'll be fastest and safest on SGs.   For a flatter, more turny course, you may want to drop down to a GS ski.  In looking for a GS ski to serve that purpose I like the 193ish length, but I'd go for a current 27m model.

 

 

 

 

post #6 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the input boyz. I was just offered a pair of 210cm 5y old Atomic SG skis in good wax and condition for 150usd. Its kind of a no brainer right? SGs it shall be then. The guy is also selling a pair of 191-3cm Nordica GS for 150usd but I think that I try the SGs and if I dont like them I can allways keep them just for fun.

post #7 of 23

What is your regular GS ski? 

 

If you're on a 27m FIS GS ski, moving up to a current 33m SG ski would be a comfortable step for a few SG races.  You will still want a couple of days free skiing before the race events to get used to them.

 

Some bigger SG skis might not work so well.  Atomic has a current SG ski 210 cm and 41.5m, and that would be a big jump.  Not necessarily faster or better if you don't get adequate training time on that ski.  Also, if the course is set a bit tighter (not uncommon for Masters races  in some areas) then the big SG ski could be a liability.

post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 

My current GS ski is a Blizzard Magnesium 182cm R24m. Maybe the Atomic is a bit too straight and that a GS ski would be a better option. Im going to have a look at the skis tomorrow.

post #9 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

My current GS ski is a Blizzard Magnesium 182cm R24m. Maybe the Atomic is a bit too straight and that a GS ski would be a better option. Im going to have a look at the skis tomorrow.



This looks like a women's FIS spec.  From that ski, a men's FIS GS ski (27m to 29m) could work well in a Masters SG event.  A current FIS GS ski will probably have a base bevel of 0.5 degrees, so you might consider relaxing this to 0.75 or 1.0 degrees for the speed event.  More reasons why it's really helpful to get a few training days before the race event.

post #10 of 23

I don't know which ski would work better for you in the course, but I believe the SG will be more fun out of the course, and at that price, it's a steal. 

 

Just look it over carefully, sometimes those skis get damaged when they fall off the back of a truck like that (Relax, I'm joking!).

post #11 of 23

Just a couple of observations-I've only run a few relatively mild SG races, so my experience is WAY less than most of the folks responding to this thread.

I ran the first ones on a borrowed pair of 183 21m GS Atomics. Two were fine (I was still slow) and one kind of scared me. Last fall I picked up a pair of 195 Atomics 33m SGs from Ebay at a great price (good for J1 girls and 59 year old men!). Free skiing them, I was amazed at how stable and damp they were at damn fast speeds! I used them in a very mild SG a couple of weeks ago and had no trouble turning them. Unfortunately, our "big" Masters SG last Friday was cancelled due to 6-10"' of snow-too bad I was looking forward to running them.

 

It seems to me that true SG skis are more damp and less stiff than a long GS ski, although a 210 would be a lot of ski to move around.Designs seem to change less often,so a model a couple years old may be the same as a current model except for cosmetics. 

post #12 of 23

Not a no-brainer at all.  A long GS ski is never, repeat never, appropriate for Super G.  It has too much sidecut, and will overturn, be unstable, or both.  In addition, because it doesn't have the base area of a Super G, it'll never be fast.  For Masters Super G, a 210 is waaay at the outer end of the envelope.  I know people who use a 210 for Super G, but they're very, very experienced.  A 210 Super G is basically a men's WC ski.  I have a 2009 Atomic 210 Super G, and it's what I use for downhill.  For Super G, I have  two pairs of Atomic 201 Super Gs, which is what I use for turny courses like Vail.  I also have two pairs of Atomic 205 Super Gs, which I use on gliding Super Gs, or, if the snow is really soft or the course is tight, for Masters DH. 

 

In addition, 5 year old Atomic skis might or might not be the right answer.  The older Atomic speed skis (metallic red and black tops) were fast, but were relatively narrow and did not have a whole lot of sidecut.  All my speed stuff is Aero 3 or later; Atomic changed the construction, made the whole ski wider, and gave it more sidecut.  A 205 SG in the "new" configuration initiates turns incredibly easily compared to the "old" Super G in a 204. 

 


nonono2.gif

Quote:
Originally Posted by tdk6 View Post

Thanks for the input boyz. I was just offered a pair of 210cm 5y old Atomic SG skis in good wax and condition for 150usd. Its kind of a no brainer right? SGs it shall be then. The guy is also selling a pair of 191-3cm Nordica GS for 150usd but I think that I try the SGs and if I dont like them I can allways keep them just for fun.



 

post #13 of 23
Thread Starter 

Thanks for the input guys. I picked up the SGs today. They are red metallic and very long and narrow. They have the typical Atomic old race binding and plate. They guy that sold the skis was a 18-20y old kid that used them for FIS racing. I must be at least 20kg heavier than him. Should be a good thing.

post #14 of 23

icon14.gif Good advice again form SR 55.   A real SG ski is quite a different animal to a GS ski.  I have found 201 is a pretty good  length for Masters SG and I have this length in rossi and atomic. Both excellent but I have been favoring the rossi this season (and we have already had 8 SGs in Far West this season biggrin.gif).  210 is a pretty hefty ski for us (ahem) more mature masters and takes more strength and skill to get the most out of.

 

BTW the metallic top surface is more than 5 years old IIRC.  I think it changed to the original aerospeed  somewhere around 2004
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

Not a no-brainer at all.  A long GS ski is never, repeat never, appropriate for Super G.  It has too much sidecut, and will overturn, be unstable, or both.  In addition, because it doesn't have the base area of a Super G, it'll never be fast.  For Masters Super G, a 210 is waaay at the outer end of the envelope.  I know people who use a 210 for Super G, but they're very, very experienced.  A 210 Super G is basically a men's WC ski.  I have a 2009 Atomic 210 Super G, and it's what I use for downhill.  For Super G, I have  two pairs of Atomic 201 Super Gs, which is what I use for turny courses like Vail.  I also have two pairs of Atomic 205 Super Gs, which I use on gliding Super Gs, or, if the snow is really soft or the course is tight, for Masters DH. 

 

In addition, 5 year old Atomic skis might or might not be the right answer.  The older Atomic speed skis (metallic red and black tops) were fast, but were relatively narrow and did not have a whole lot of sidecut.  All my speed stuff is Aero 3 or later; Atomic changed the construction, made the whole ski wider, and gave it more sidecut.  A 205 SG in the "new" configuration initiates turns incredibly easily compared to the "old" Super G in a 204. 

 


nonono2.gif



 



 

post #15 of 23
Thread Starter 

Yeah, I whish I had the shorter 201 womens SG ski. But I could not find any. This Atomic I have now is BTW a ATOMIC RACE SG ATOMIC AERO with a little box behind the plate with some information on the length 210 and turn radius bigger or equal to 33m and a serial number. I wonder if anything can be read out of the serial number? Anyway, the skis are written on in many places with a thin permanent inc pen. I guess its at official FIS races where you have to have your skis checked each season or race or something.

post #16 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

Not a no-brainer at all.  A long GS ski is never, repeat never, appropriate for Super G.  It has too much sidecut, and will overturn, be unstable, or both.  In addition, because it doesn't have the base area of a Super G, it'll never be fast.  For Masters Super G, a 210 is waaay at the outer end of the envelope.  I know people who use a 210 for Super G, but they're very, very experienced.  A 210 Super G is basically a men's WC ski. 

 

 



Looks like you might agree that a full size men's FIS SG could be too much, but I have a different perspective on how far to consider scaling back.   

I think a GS ski can be the right choice, taking characteristics of the course and the athlete into account.

 

I'm guessing that your usual SG race is closer to a full FIS spec event, and that would certainly influence the lower end of the spectrum for ski choices.  For some events at that level, my recommendation would be that if the athlete isn't ready for a full SG ski, they are not ready for that event.

 

However, in some areas there are sanctioned SG races at the Masters level (and other levels as well) that might be described as relaxed SG, or maybe oversized GS. 

 

I look at the range of skis from a women's FIS GS to men's FIS SG, and I see models going in nice steps from 181 cm length/23 m radius all the way up to 210 cm length/41.5 m radius.  To me this provides better options other than automatically choosing a true SG ski. 

 

For someone who usually skis a 182 cm/24 m GS ski, a 188 cm/29 m ski is a good choice for occasional SG events, or as a SG development ski. It will be noticeably straighter and sturdier than the regular GS ski, but not so much different that it can't be skied or raced well.  Move up when you're ready.

 

post #17 of 23

Yeah, I see your point, but I still think getting a true SG is a better bet even in the situation you describe.  The shortest FIS legal SG is a 201, which is the standard women's WC length and sidecut.  But they make SGs shorter than that, including lengths like 195.  If you're in the market, I'd take a 195 SG over a 188 GS...your mileage may vary...

 

biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post





Looks like you might agree that a full size men's FIS SG could be too much, but I have a different perspective on how far to consider scaling back.   

I think a GS ski can be the right choice, taking characteristics of the course and the athlete into account.

 

I'm guessing that your usual SG race is closer to a full FIS spec event, and that would certainly influence the lower end of the spectrum for ski choices.  For some events at that level, my recommendation would be that if the athlete isn't ready for a full SG ski, they are not ready for that event.

 

However, in some areas there are sanctioned SG races at the Masters level (and other levels as well) that might be described as relaxed SG, or maybe oversized GS. 

 

I look at the range of skis from a women's FIS GS to men's FIS SG, and I see models going in nice steps from 181 cm length/23 m radius all the way up to 210 cm length/41.5 m radius.  To me this provides better options other than automatically choosing a true SG ski. 

 

For someone who usually skis a 182 cm/24 m GS ski, a 188 cm/29 m ski is a good choice for occasional SG events, or as a SG development ski. It will be noticeably straighter and sturdier than the regular GS ski, but not so much different that it can't be skied or raced well.  Move up when you're ready.

 



 

post #18 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

Yeah, I see your point, but I still think getting a true SG is a better bet even in the situation you describe.  The shortest FIS legal SG is a 201, which is the standard women's WC length and sidecut.  But they make SGs shorter than that, including lengths like 195.  If you're in the market, I'd take a 195 SG over a 188 GS...your mileage may vary...

 

biggrin.gif

 



 



More good choices to think about.  And racing a true SG ski in a SG event is a good goal to strive for.

 

post #19 of 23

Or go even bigger, and come out to the Rockies and race DH (Masters national DH at Cooper in two weeks).  Remember, "Slalom and GS are just events...downhill is a cult."

 

biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by mogulmuncher View Post





More good choices to think about.  And racing a true SG ski in a SG event is a good goal to strive for.

 



 

post #20 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post

Or go even bigger, and come out to the Rockies and race DH (Masters national DH at Cooper in two weeks). 

 



 



And bring your SG skis.  wink.gif

post #21 of 23


Actually, you're right.  I've seen guys use all kinds of skis on that course, all the way from 195 SGs to 217 DHs.  I've been using a 210 SG, Atomic from 2008, and I'm getting a pair of this year's 210 D2 SGs this week...

 

smile.gif
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post





And bring your SG skis.  wink.gif



 

post #22 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiRacer55 View Post


Actually, you're right.  I've seen guys use all kinds of skis on that course, all the way from 195 SGs to 217 DHs.  I've been using a 210 SG, Atomic from 2008, and I'm getting a pair of this year's 210 D2 SGs this week...

 

smile.gif
 



 



I was very comfy on my 209 SG's there.  Too bad I bent the one of them like a pretzel.  Enjoy your new ride, and go fast my friend!  

post #23 of 23

Thanks...show up and you can use my 2008 210s...

 

yahoo.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rick View Post





I was very comfy on my 209 SG's there.  Too bad I bent the one of them like a pretzel.  Enjoy your new ride, and go fast my friend!  



 

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