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Does wearing a helmet do any good? - Page 8

post #211 of 231

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Edited by telerod15 - 4/2/11 at 2:17pm
post #212 of 231

USSA is the same old same old.

 

Chin guards are permitted for SL ... read not required .... helmets are.

 

The must have a full helmet (hard over the ears), for anything but SL.

 

There are no rules that I could locate on TARA (Mass web site), now that said, I have seen changes to the rules that went unannounced to eliminate kids.  Suddenly PARA required or suggested full helmets for SL and the hill suddenly required them.  I had extra helmets and gave them out.

 

This sounds like a local change or perhaps for "J-5" but is not even in the USSA final rules.

post #213 of 231

I just know that in a month period we went from selling none to going through about a couple dozen and as mentioned,going by customers requests.

post #214 of 231

With due respect, there is no link that I could find on TARA (MA,, CT & RI), web site.

 

There is no USSA rule for a chin guard.

 

I'll stand corrected but this is rumor mill stuff till you see it in writing.

 

My gut tells me local hill policy.

post #215 of 231

Which is fine,I am by no means telling anyone to go out and replace their helmet for a race helmet. I was simply stating what customers were telling me.If they tell me that they have to have to have a race helmet due to a new rule who am I to question them.I am not trying to create an argument or change the direction of the thread,  bottom line is do not chince on a helmet you cannot put a price on your head!

post #216 of 231

Bored, My take on impact protection is that the helmets are all pretty similar, within their category (bicycle style one impact helmets for example). You may have hit your head pretty hard, thus the concussion even with the helmet. The crush-able foam helmet (Giro G - 10) just does so much, but it often makes the difference. The multi hit helmet works differently, has a harder outer shell, is likely not much more impact absorbing or dispersing; the main advantage is for someone who takes numerous hits and wants the helmet to last through a few.

post #217 of 231

If you know something about the product you are selling and regulations regarding it's use and you voluntarily divulge to the customer that he or she doesn't really need that product you might loose a sale but gain a loyal customer.

post #218 of 231

Dave, this kind of stuff kept some kids out of a race at Blue Mountain PA.

 

That is why is kind of bothers me.  Some change of "policy" that they were enforcing as regulation from what I can tell.

 

No doubt about helmets but there are reasons NOT to have a chin guard.  RR will argue this to death but but not to offend anyone but there are few who will endorse a chin guard for anything but SL.

 

The guards I have seen other than POC (rounder and closer), look like neck snappers in a tumble.  I have never seen a guard in GS any speed event .... please no 1977 pics ... they went out with buggy whips.  RR wore a cycle helmet back "in the day" and that is certainly his choice and is better than no helmet.

 

I had never been without a helmet since like 1999.

post #219 of 231

Wear one, they work. How's that?

post #220 of 231

Dave, I never said you were trying to push helmets.

 

Read the post ... never been on skis without a helmet in longer than I can remember at least 1998 when my kids were with me to be exact.

 

Personally, I would never wear a chin guard except possibly for SL.  That said, they were never required at any race academy like GMS  or CVA, mouth guard were (in mouth).

s

post #221 of 231

Once again, I am not trying to change the thread guys and Telerod,I am not recommending that someone buy something they do not need.I am merely supplying a product that their coach has required them to wear.If he or she is giving false information,that is not up to me to decide.I give the most informed advice I have to each customer that comes in period.

post #222 of 231

Just to add to this monumental discussion (no sarcasm intended), when I was buying my G10 helmet last year, I looked at some others in the shop.  One helmet (an orange-colored K2 helmet) had a clear and direct warning inside the helmet that the helmet did NOT meet the industry standard safety certification.

 

I dunno, seems immoral to sell something that isn't going to protect you up to the standard.  I think the same goes for these Bern "hard-hats."  WTF is the point?

 

 

Also, lets add another discussion topic.  Does a front mount of a GoPro (which I had during my concussion fall, via the elastic band that comes with the GoPro) increase danger associated with frontal falls?  I'm pretty sure as my head slammed against the hard snow that I felt the GoPro slide my helmet up and to the side.  I think my helmet, and not forehead, still hit the snow, but maybe if I didn't have GoPro on (or had other mount), I wouldn't have this bitch of a concussion right now???

post #223 of 231

BABMBW makes a good point. The fit of the helmet is key to its efficacy. Look at the kids that wear their helmets on the backs of their heads leaving their forehead exposed. Straps so loose that the helmet can fall off. A full helmet such as my race helmet that fits snugly will provide more protection than a sloppy fitting helmet. When I banged a tree a few weeks back my helmet was in the same position after the impact as before. I credit that good fit with helping protect me.

post #224 of 231

 

Sounds like the chin guard is for SL and saving teeth. I knows guys that are recommending mouth guards also for SL.   

 

To go with a race helmet or not getting the right size is important! As for the Bern hard hats.. these get the kids into parks where helmets are required. 

 

http://www.skicanada.org/_assets/files/Helmet%20Information%20Nov%202nd%20final.pdf

http://www.ski-injury.com/prevention/helmet

 

post #225 of 231

How about those helmets that look like motorcycle helmets, like the one Seth Morrison wears.  Those look like they've got to offer more protection than a one-and-done helmet?

 

To the above post, OK that's nice it "gets the kids in."  But, isn't that especially dangerous in the park?  I was reading stats about ski head injuries, and one of the most dangerous places per-fall-incident is the park where the slingshot effect can thrust heads into the snow very quickly.  The hard-hats don't even look cooler than regular helmets... so I guess I don't understand the point.


Edited by Vitamin Ski - 5/18/11 at 6:35pm
post #226 of 231


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Okay guys, what commercially-available consumer helmet has the highest impact ratings?  Let's generate a list... b/c after what I consider a relatively low-speed crash on beginner terrain I am quite shaken up by the severity of my head injury.  I obviously need to "look before I leap" off any small snow ledges, but still...

 

I know that slytech published (for marketing purposes) an independent study of back protector safety ratings.  Threre has to be a similar thing for helmets.

 

 

So, can anybody list the safest helmets?



It's complicated.

THe Snell Memorial Foundation tests helmets and develops standards.. they got started in motor racing and have gotten a lot of traction in motorcyles, bicycles, and equestian. I don't think there are any readily available helmets certified to their standards, but I could be wrong. 

See http://www.smf.org/standards/ski/s98std  and http://www.smf.org/certlist/std_S-98 and http://www.smf.org/certlist/std_RS-98

or poke around their site.

 

I love this from their FAQ

"How do you test a helmet, do you stand around hitting people on the head?"
This question is probably the winner of the most Frequently Asked Questions award, and all we can answer is "Not Anymore".

 

 

More common standards are by the usual European or American standards body.  http://www.ski-injury.com/prevention/helmet has a good discussion of standards and general issues (including a link to the American Medical Association report on helmets).

From near the botom of that page:

 

"One problem can be knowing which helmet to buy – as with much so-called “protective gear”, some have not been subjected to any standardised testing. The commonest standards are the Central European Standard EN1077 and UNI EN 812, but the American Snell RS-98 test standard sets more stringent targets. Unlike EN1077, Snell performs a series of impact tests and requires a higher level of impact absorption. Specifically, helmets that meet the Snell standard have to withstand at least 30% more impact force than EN1077.

A newer American standard ASTM F2040 has also been introduced - nevertheless, as the diagrams below illustrate - Snell sets the toughest standards and therefore helmets that meet the Snell standard have been put through more than the others - unfortunately, v. few commercially available snow sports helmets are currently Snell certified. The bottom line is that if you are going to buy a helmet, make sure it at least meets one (if not more) of these standards. That way, you know it has undergone some form of testing appropriate to its ultimate use on a ski slope."

 

As I understand it, something called a "hard hat" has not been certified to any of these standards.  (Correct me if I'm wrong on this.)  Doesn't necessarily mean it wouldn't pass if it was submitted for testing.

 

There was some controversy around POC a few years ago.  If I'm remembering correctly, they weren't certified because POC didn't agree with some of the assumptions implicit in the standards.  They thought their way was safer, but non-compliant.  Might have been related to the outer shell designed to shatter under severe impacts.

 

So what is safest?  Beats me.  I have a helmet I like (it fits, it's well ventilated) from a reputable helmet company and I'm sticking with that.

 

post #227 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoredAtBMBW View Post

Just to add to this monumental discussion (no sarcasm intended), when I was buying my G10 helmet last year, I looked at some others in the shop.  One helmet (an orange-colored K2 helmet) had a clear and direct warning inside the helmet that the helmet did NOT meet the industry standard safety certification.

 

I dunno, seems immoral to sell something that isn't going to protect you up to the standard.  I think the same goes for these Bern "hard-hats."  WTF is the point?


Sounds like the beanie helmets that let Harley Riders avoid tickets while rebelling against the law that forces them to wear helmets.

 

post #228 of 231

You are correct the guards on SL helmets are designed to keep the gates away from the face and teeth. They aren't very substantial and are a barrier to the relatively light gates but not from impact with unmovable objects such as trees and the slope.

 

Mouth guards protect against concussion and protect the teeth as well, but mostly from lower teeth against upper teeth. They are effective and recommended for all disciplines, not just SL.

 

A dentist friend made himself one that makes him look like he's missing a few teeth. Not like this -> biggrin.gif

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by nostar View Post

 

Sounds like the chin guard is for SL and saving teeth. I knows guys that are recommending mouth guards also for SL.   

 

To go with a race helmet or not getting the right size is important! As for the Bern hard hats.. these get the kids into parks where helmets are required. 

 

http://www.skicanada.org/_assets/files/Helmet%20Information%20Nov%202nd%20final.pdf

http://www.ski-injury.com/prevention/helmet

 



 

 

post #229 of 231
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daveski7 View Post

...Telerod,I am not recommending that someone buy something they do not need.I am merely supplying a product that their coach has required them to wear.If he or she is giving false information,that is not up to me to decide.I give the most informed advice I have to each customer that comes in period.


If you are not telling them what you know about applicable regulations, you are not giving each customer "the most informed advice (you) have..." period.

 

post #230 of 231

Wow 228 posts and 3314 views and nobody got the answer to this question.  nonono2.gif

 

 

Does wearing a helmet do any good?

 

My Answer:  Yes,  but only when you hit you hit your head.

 

I can't believe nobody had the answer until now.  yahoo.gif

 

You all can  move along to other threads now. 

 

 

post #231 of 231
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastersRacer View Post

You are correct the guards on SL helmets are designed to keep the gates away from the face and teeth. They aren't very substantial and are a barrier to the relatively light gates but not from impact with unmovable objects such as trees and the slope.

 

Mouth guards protect against concussion and protect the teeth as well, but mostly from lower teeth against upper teeth. They are effective and recommended for all disciplines, not just SL.

 

A dentist friend made himself one that makes him look like he's missing a few teeth. Not like this -> biggrin.gif

 



 

 


I bought one after reading about this but like others found it too obtrusive for daily use especially with my full face helmet.

There is another reason for wearing them, that is it has been shown to increase strength. At maximum exertion most of us will gnash our teeth, when pulling those high g-turns, or tackling really rough stuff at high speeds you may find yourself biting down with all your might, I do. At one point when I was much bigger and muscular, I used to wear a mouth guard at the gym designed for just that reason. I found that I had painful teeth and jaw from biting down so hard when lifting very heavy. I bought the mouth guard/bite plate, and it went away.
Edited by Richie-Rich - 4/13/11 at 7:42pm
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