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Mr5150 has a question about his skis

post #1 of 8
Thread Starter 

My skis:

 

Ski A. 08/09 Nordica AfterBurner (126-84-112)

 

Ski B 10/11 Sultan 94 (132-94-118)

 

Ski B is 3cm longer. Both have a 15m turning radius.

 

Ski A is noticably heavier.

 

Ski A is a bit easier with turn initiation, but...here is what puzzles me: When I ski on a given  groomed* run that is on the steeper side Ski B works better. I have more confidence and find making turns less of a problem.

 

Why is that? One would think the narrower ski would do better on steeper groomed runs. Could it be the weight of Ski A? The constructon, the shape? I suspect that the ABs might be a tad stiffer than the Sultan. I am beginning to think the ABs might be hindering me a bit.

 

Any ideas?

 

*on ungroomed runs the Sultun is superior as one would expect.

post #2 of 8


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post

My skis:

Ski A. 08/09 Nordica AfterBurner (126-84-112)

Ski B 10/11 Sultan 94 (132-94-118)

Ski B is 3cm longer. Both have a 15m turning radius.

Ski A is noticably heavier.

 

Ski A is a bit easier with turn initiation, but...here is what puzzles me: When I ski on a given  groomed* run that is on the steeper side Ski B works better. I have more confidence and find making turns less of a problem.

 

Why is that? One would think the narrower ski would do better on steeper groomed runs. Could it be the weight of Ski A? The constructon, the shape? I suspect that the ABs might be a tad stiffer than the Sultan. I am beginning to think the ABs might be hindering me a bit.

 

Any ideas?

 

*on ungroomed runs the Sultun is superior as one would expect.

Any ideas?


...you are the industry poster child for 'Tip Rocker' ?

... ground zero for what tip rocker was designed for...?

...daft coaster Vs Ice Coaster...?

 

Ice Coasters have to learn to ski, daft coasters can do .... whatever...

 

as we're all finding out, narrower doesn't always mean faster turning...

low to mid 90's may quickly (or already has...) become the new 'norm' in ski waists - for guyz...

 

Sultan (from quick calc based on measurements you supplied) seem to have more 'taper' and a guess that the ABs might also be more torsionally rigid in the tail, which may help the AB finish the turn better, but be harder to release in slidy type turns (which become more important as the pitch increases).

 

sell the ABs

someone else will fall in love with them

 

BTW, I am lazy... so how long are those boards?

post #3 of 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr5150 View Post

My skis:

 

Ski A. 08/09 Nordica AfterBurner (126-84-112)

 

Ski B 10/11 Sultan 94 (132-94-118) ^^^ +6- +10 - +6 ^^^

 

Ski B is 3cm longer. Both have a 15m turning radius.

 


So the longer ski with less sidecut has the same turning radius??? Me no thinky so.

 

Moreoutdoor has got it right, the AB has more edgegrip so it makes it harder to smear a turn.

 

post #4 of 8
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post




So the longer ski with less sidecut has the same turning radius??? Me no thinky so.

 

 

 



Hmm.....What you say makes sense. Perhaps the Dynastar website made a mistake.

 

post #5 of 8

That just reinforces the thought that the Nordica is harder to turn due to it's grip, and the Dynastar is easier to turn because it allows a smoother 'smeared' turn. It could be the wider ski is a little harder to get the edges engaged, so it drifts better or that it is a little softer torsionally so it drifts a little better or the less sidecut allows it to drift better.

 

The point is most folks assume more grip + shorter turn radius means better short turns. That is not always true at all.

post #6 of 8

Some thoughts from an non-pro.

 

Once a skier leaves flatter terrain and goes to steep or adds speed, a lot more energy is available to turn the skis. The advantage of a narrow waist is diminished. Possibly, skiers stay more in the fall line and make less fully rounded turns and further negate the waist issue.. I think this is why wide or fat skis work as well as they do.

 

But, I wonder if you are just seeing the results of 2 skies that are designed differently with respect to for-aft flex balance, stiffness, torsional stability and all the other magical factors designed into skis. On demo days, regardless of waist, some skis just perform better than others when skied in the style of the individual skier. For you, Fishers may work better than Nordica's. No real surprise.

 

But I've been proven wrong many times before.

post #7 of 8
Thread Starter 

This info is very good to know
 



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

That just reinforces the thought that the Nordica is harder to turn due to it's grip, and the Dynastar is easier to turn because it allows a smoother 'smeared' turn. It could be the wider ski is a little harder to get the edges engaged, so it drifts better or that it is a little softer torsionally so it drifts a little better or the less sidecut allows it to drift better.

 

The point is most folks assume more grip + shorter turn radius means better short turns. That is not always true at all.



Game changing concept. I may have to rethink things. Perhaps the Sultan will become my daily driver with the ABs for those hard snow days. (instead of the Sultans as my soft snow skis)

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

Some thoughts from an non-pro.

 

Once a skier leaves flatter terrain and goes to steep or adds speed, a lot more energy is available to turn the skis. The advantage of a narrow waist is diminished. Possibly, skiers stay more in the fall line and make less fully rounded turns and further negate the waist issue.. I think this is why wide or fat skis work as well as they do.

 

But, I wonder if you are just seeing the results of 2 skies that are designed differently with respect to for-aft flex balance, stiffness, torsional stability and all the other magical factors designed into skis. On demo days, regardless of waist, some skis just perform better than others when skied in the style of the individual skier. For you, Fishers may work better than Nordica's. No real surprise.

 

But I've been proven wrong many times before.


One thing I noticed in retrospect. After I got the ABs I had more difficulty making turns on steeper runs. But on intermediate runs they ripped. On demo day, I only did one steeper run and I attributed the difficulty in turning to the fact the skis were one size too long for me. The turning issue is not a make or break issue. I still like the skis.

 

 

 

post #8 of 8

Depends too on how you ski.

 

If you are trying to smear a turn while the skis want to carve the turn you will end up fighting the skis.  Steeper runs may end up giving you a bigger edge angle relative to the snow just standing up straight with your skis across the fall line.  Bigger angles means you are more apt to carve a turn and less apt to smear a turn.  A softer wider ski will be easier to force into a smear, but a narrower less forgiving ski will be better at carving an aggressive turn.

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