or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Pivot 14 and Dynastar

post #1 of 11
Thread Starter 

I just got off the phone with Dynastar. Talked to 4 people. Maybe someone in this forum can explain what's going on with my Pivot 14's.

 

Bobo's (ski store in Reno) and the resort tech's both agree that my bindings are properly installed on my skis and appropriate for my Lange boots.

 

When I step into the binding, my heel is still able to move vertically about 1/4" - without even beginning to release. 

 

The movement is in the components that are underneath the heel - not in the arms or the housing which holds the boot down and holds the main spring.

 

Dynastar wants me to "send in the heel pieces" in order to decide if they will warranty anything. I'm actually pretty frothing angry at them right now because I need my skis to teach on and I don't want to take bindings off skis, ship bindings, do without skis, then get some replace heels back and have to get them re-installed.

 

At this point - if anybody is considering Pivot 14's - I'm going to say - "anything else". And I think I might be going to Nordica next year - considering they took care of my friend's Doberman problem last year a lot better than Dynastar is taking care of me.

 

Chriso

post #2 of 11

I've used these, or their previous incarnations, for years with no issues. Sounds like a bad mount, regardless of what the techs say. That binding should not have slop under the plate. Its only peculiarity is that it has a rather vague feel at lockdown, rather than the "click" most people expect. But it's a great binder. 

post #3 of 11

It sounds like you don't have enough forward pressure. The Forward Pressure adjustment is really vague and most techs don't understand how to read it correctly, even if they do it's, as I said, vague. This has always been a problem with this binding and it's the reason that it was replaced by the Pivot/Axial and then Pivot2/Axial2.

 

Try jacking up the forward p and see if that solves the problem (it will), I'll bet it does (because it will)... by the way, this adjustment 'creeps' a little, I find (so continue to pay attention to it through out the season).

 

(...and what did you expect Dynastar to do for you? send you a second pair, that more than likely will behave this same way because there isn't anything wrong other than the adjustment? They need to see the problem before they can solve it. Be reasonable.)

post #4 of 11

The current pivot heelpiece has been on the market without interruption for well over 15 years. It is extensively used in competition at all levels and is probably the most desired binding among professional big mountain skiers. There is nothing inherently wrong with the heelpiece. While there is a possibility that there is a faulty component within your system the odds are that the issue lies either with the installation and adjustment or with the boot (possibly heavily worn???). One possibility is that the bindings were installed a bit "long" then adjusted down to fit your sole length. If so, it's possible that the heel of your boot is binding on the lateral arms of the binding and not allowing the boot to reach bottom. This is a fairly common problem and IAC....the answer does not lie on the internet where a bunch of folks that also cannot inspect and test your system reside. We can't see and system check your setup so no one here (or elsewhere on the web) can diagnose your problem.

 

I guess the question is, what would you like them (Dynastar) to do? They can't see the setup over the phone and so they have no idea what the problem is. How do you expect them to solve it without seeing it?

 

Take your setup back to Bobo's, explain your problem and ask them to check and see if the boot heel is binding on the lateral arms. If so, the solution is pretty simple the heepiece can be remounted further back or the sides of the boot heel can be ground to provide clearance. If Bobo's determines that there is an issue with the heelpiece itself and they deem that the setup has to go back to Dynastar then.....so be it. Ask them to borrow a demo ski while the bindings are being sent back to Dynastar.

 

Rest assured that there is no concrete answer available on the web and the company cannot solve your problem without seeing it. It is what it is.

 

SJ

post #5 of 11

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiteroom View Post

(...and what did you expect Dynastar to do for you? send you a second pair, that more than likely will behave this same way because there isn't anything wrong other than the adjustment? They need to see the problem before they can solve it. Be reasonable.)



I don't think its unreasonable to want to ski your skis during the Winter.  The same thing happened with me and they tell you crap like "we're out of stock mid season but can help you out this summer/fall when we'll have the next years crop."  Even if the problem lies completely on the user and dealer, if its a reputable dealer and they're willing to stand by you, then these higher-end companies should be able to get it fixed quickly then sort out the 'whys' after the snow melts.  In terms of bindings, if you're shelling out the $$$s for the Pivot/FKS, Royal Family, or the STH Drivers (just to name the 1st ones that come to mind) then the companies should accommodate you during the season and sort it out with the dealer afterwards.

 

Personally, I am very happy with my Pivot14s and so far would recommend them to anyone/everyone.  Its a tough call when you are comparing products based on the quality of the item and the quality of the service should the item need it.

post #6 of 11
Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenDiamonds View Post

 

  Even if the problem lies completely on the user and dealer, if its a reputable dealer and they're willing to stand by you, then these higher-end companies should be able to get it fixed quickly then sort out the 'whys' after the snow melts...  the companies should accommodate you during the season and sort it out with the dealer afterwards.

 

So, the manufacturer isn't allowed to ask for the product to visually inspect what 'went wrong' before they determine what to do???

 

So what exactly happens when the manufacturer decides that it wasn't a warranty? Or, it was but it was a small easily replaced bit, not an entire ski/binding unit? Then what? Does the shop get billed and then try to chase the customer down 3 months later, for the cost of the replacement they already posses? Basically, how will your model work when the part is not defective?
 

post #7 of 11

All of those comments have merit, but in my eyes the model is in place to help the Manufacturer, the Dealer, and the Customer...not just 1 or 2 of the parties involved.  Each level of the model should work in both ways, ie. <---->.     The M allows their product to be sold in the D's shop because a) they want to sell their product, and b) because they trust that the D knows something about the product.  The C then buys the product from the D fully expecting them to know something about the product and be able to back it up.  In most instances the C has a difficult time dealing directly with the M and for good reason...they are trying to cut out the middleman (D). 

 

Now, getting to the issue if the binding is found to be either not defective or a simple fix...then that should fall back onto the Dealer.  They should know and understand every product they sell.  I just re-read the OP and now I'm not entirely sure if he is actually going through the dealer (sounds like maybe he is trying to go direct through Dynastar).  If that is the case then yes, there is a problem here, but if he is going through a dealer than they should know that the part is defective when they call the Manufacturer, and if by some miracle it turns out they were wrong, then they should eat the costs of their mistake.

post #8 of 11
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone that replied...

 

After talking to Dynastar, I went back to Bobo's and talked to Theron (their expert) and he confirmed that the forward pressure could be adjusted tighter and improve on the problem. In fact, I was amazed at how wrong the other tech's were. Interesting that so many techs could get it wrong before he got it right.

 

Even with the forward pressure fixed, there is still a substantial amount of slop in the binding. I've run bindings like this for about 35 years - beginning with the old N-77's in the 70's. I don't remember this much slop before. Theron says it's normal for this binding. I think I won't be buying another pivot binding. The PX binding appears to be a much better binding.

 

As far as what I expected from Dynastar...I'm not sure. I figure I've purchased a couple pairs of boots, three pairs of skis and 4 pairs of bindings over the last 3 years. I guess I was hoping for something more friendly. I offered to send video, pictures or anything that might help a diagnosis without me having to give up the bindings in the middle of ski season. It wasn't just that they didn't have a solution, but also that they didn't really appear to give a crap.

 

And like someone else commented - I'm buying their high end stuff and I guess I expected some sort of high end experience with service. But then, I've been in the service business myself and have high expectations.

 

chriso

post #9 of 11

To re-emphasize what I said above...you'll likely have a lot more success going through a dealer than dealing directly with Dynastar.  I would expect that you would receive better results, especially considering that you have purchased 9 of their items over the past 3 years.  As for the PX being better than the Pivot...not sure I'd agree with that.  What the tech told you about their slop being normal is wrong based on my experience and everything I've read or heard.  I know with mine locked in properly the boot has zero movement in the binding, and to release I need to use a lot of force on the pole, or else step down firmly with the other ski.  Mine are only set to a DIN of 8, but compared to my last Tyrolia bindings they feel like a 10-11.  Good Luck!

post #10 of 11

Sorry to hear you're having issues with your Pivots.  Your opinion as to Pivot v. PX differs from the vast majority of posters regarding their favorite bindings over the years.  I've not had the issues you're describing with my Pivot 14s, or any older iterations of turntables, such as the TT09. 

post #11 of 11
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chrisogg View Post

 

As far as what I expected from Dynastar...I'm not sure. I figure I've purchased a couple pairs of boots, three pairs of skis and 4 pairs of bindings over the last 3 years. I guess I was hoping for something more friendly. I offered to send video, pictures or anything that might help a diagnosis without me having to give up the bindings in the middle of ski season. It wasn't just that they didn't have a solution, but also that they didn't really appear to give a crap.

 

And like someone else commented - I'm buying their high end stuff and I guess I expected some sort of high end experience with service. But then, I've been in the service business myself and have high expectations.

 

chriso

It is looking like the adjustment was the problem, not a defective part... so if Dynastar sent you a new heel you would still have the same problem. Having a more lenient warranty policy would not have been any help to you. I understand your frustration, but parts need to be inspected to determine the problem before a reasonable solution can be found. This is where an experienced shop or technician can be a life-saver, and a great shop will work with you to keep you skiing during the warranty process without added costs to you.

 

 

I disagree that the Pivot/FKS is a better binding than the PX/Axial2, sure it's great when set correctly. The problem is, setting it correctly involves setting the jig, drilling the toe hole then sliding the jig forward about 5mm to drill the heel holes (this helps avoid boot-to-arm contact) then making sure the FP is correct... it's sort of ambiguous. Is the design inherently flawed? No, it's just a hassle that doesn't make for better ski performance, IMO. (I do ski on two pairs... 'cause they look cool).
 

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: Ski Gear Discussion