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No ticket loop for day tickets anymore? Zipper direction?

post #1 of 23
Thread Starter 

Trivial little issues, but annoying nonetheless.  Why is it jacket makers are not putting ticket loops on jackets any more?  I've been to four shops and found no options other than zippers, often in stupid places.  I thought maybe something on the pants, but the loops on the pants are so far up that they won't be seen by those rabid bar code checkers.  My last jacket has a nice loop nearly under arm, but down low.  It worked well stayed out of the way and didn't flap.   I used to put them on my helmet too, but that is kind of impractical. 

I think I'm gonna like RFID's.

 

Thoughts?

 

And while I'm at it, anyone know why pocket zippers zip up?

post #2 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by billskis View Post


And while I'm at it, anyone know why pocket zippers zip up?

I prefer zip down too back in the day.  I've heard that they do them up now because if your pocket is only a little unzipped stuff still stays in it and doesn't fall out as easily.  I'm sure that it must actualy be cheaper to make them zip up instead of down for some odd reason though.  It seems 90% of decisions other than color are about cost these days.... Also why I think they have done away with ticket D-rings... cost.  Sure some day they will be able to scan the chip in the back of your neck to ensure you have paid, but today it has to be production cost driven..

 


 

post #3 of 23

Hmm, in the last 6 years I've skied one hill that didn't have either a SkiData or TeamAxess hands free system. Its become unthinkable not to have one or the other on this side of the pond. A zip pocket on the lower left arm is what you need cool.gif

 

Catch up, North America wink.gif

post #4 of 23

Are you sure there are no loops that are sewn inside a side pocket that can be left out when you zip it up? or one near the bottom hem? I have a few jackets that had/have that.

post #5 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post

Hmm, in the last 6 years I've skied one hill that didn't have either a SkiData or TeamAxess hands free system. Its become unthinkable not to have one or the other on this side of the pond. A zip pocket on the lower left arm is what you need cool.gif

 

Catch up, North America wink.gif


I don't even know what a SkiData or a TeamAxess system is.  But the only place I've skied that comes to mind off the top of my head where I didn't need my ticket out to be scanned was Stevens Pass.  And maybe Alta?

post #6 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post

Are you sure there are no loops that are sewn inside a side pocket that can be left out when you zip it up? or one near the bottom hem? I have a few jackets that had/have that.



Most of my older jackets have exactly that.  I'm not seeing them in the newer ones I've looked at, either and I do dig though the side pockets..

post #7 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by FujativeOCR View Post




I don't even know what a SkiData or a TeamAxess system is.  But the only place I've skied that comes to mind off the top of my head where I didn't need my ticket out to be scanned was Stevens Pass.  And maybe Alta?


Alta, Snowbird, Solitude, and I think Brighton all have it.

post #8 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Squawker View Post

 A zip pocket on the lower left arm is what you need cool.gif

 

Catch up, North America wink.gif



I don't get these zip pockets.  Are you talking about something transparent that they can scan?  I've seen pockets on sleeves in the stores, ostensibly for your ticket/pass, but unless it is RFID I don't see it working with a scanner.

post #9 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post

Are you sure there are no loops that are sewn inside a side pocket that can be left out when you zip it up? or one near the bottom hem? I have a few jackets that had/have that.



I checked it again (as did the saleswoman when I brought it back to inquire), absolutely not. I am going to put a key ring on the cinch cord on the side of the jacket and call it a day.  FWIW, it's a Marker jacket, but all the brands are that way.

post #10 of 23

Hmm. I have a 4 YO Marker jacket and it has one inside the left waist pocket. It also has a handy goggle wipe in the left breast pocket so they put some thought into it.

 

As for the passes, yes they are RFID and the lifts have automatic gates or turnstiles.

post #11 of 23
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post

Hmm. I have a 4 YO Marker jacket and it has one inside the left waist pocket. It also has a handy goggle wipe in the left breast pocket so they put some thought into it.

 

As for the passes, yes they are RFID and the lifts have automatic gates or turnstiles.



The wipe is there.  There is nothing in the pocket.   thanks for the recon anyways.

post #12 of 23

 



Quote:
Originally Posted by billskis View Post





I checked it again (as did the saleswoman when I brought it back to inquire), absolutely not. I am going to put a key ring on the cinch cord on the side of the jacket and call it a day.  FWIW, it's a Marker jacket, but all the brands are that way.


If you are referring to a steel split ring; I've been to some areas (*cough*Snowbasin*cough*) where they have an official escort you out of the gondy line, take you back to the ticket booth and use your credit card receipt to get a new ticket when they see a ticket on a split ring.

post #13 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by billskis View PostFWIW, it's a Marker jacket, but all the brands are that way.

Not true.  There is a loop built into the right leg pocket of my Patagonia Powder Bowl pants and one in the left arm pocket of my Patagonia Powder Bowl jacket.  And I just bought both of these this season.

post #14 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post

 




If you are referring to a steel split ring; I've been to some areas (*cough*Snowbasin*cough*) where they have an official escort you out of the gondy line, take you back to the ticket booth and use your credit card receipt to get a new ticket when they see a ticket on a split ring.


Wow.... just wow. Do they also make sure their season passes are surgically affixed to your body for the season?

post #15 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by billskis View Post





I don't get these zip pockets.  Are you talking about something transparent that they can scan?  I've seen pockets on sleeves in the stores, ostensibly for your ticket/pass, but unless it is RFID I don't see it working with a scanner.



Pretty much every European resort uses RFID cards (same size as a credit card); even the tiny resorts near my ex-girlfriend's hometown in Poland had them. 

 

Those who don't have a sleeve pocket on their jackets end up rubbing theirs chests up against the machine, trying to get the card close enough to be recognized, which is kind of funny to watch.

 

I'm guessing the reason you're seeing so many jackets with this design is that many of the companies are European or sell a lot of goods in Europe.

post #16 of 23

They will stop making jackets without the loops for tickets when people stop buying the jackets that don't have them.  If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem.

post #17 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by aschick View Post

 Do they also make sure their season passes are surgically affixed to your body for the season?


Dunno.     You will perceive that I have never bought a pass at the area(s) I am thinking of.   smile.gif

post #18 of 23
Thread Starter 

"Not true." You got me mtcyclist.  Ouch!

Well, I'm not in the Pantagonia price range; I've been looking at the 100-170 price range.

 

In terms of split-ring, I'll save my explicatives for elsewhere.  I can think of at least three ways to easily share tickets, if that's what they are worried about.  In the east there is only ONE area that I know of using RFID, and that is easily swappable. 

 

Ghost - In terms of "If you're not part of the solution, you are part of the problem." Tha's a nice way to button up a complex issue but doesn't always work.  Sometimes you follow the competition, especially when you are cutting costs - look at the airlines, look at computers.  Cost is low, but all the options are $$. 

 

Cerebral - With the US/Canada market at ~7.5M skiers/boarders compared to the remainder of the world of 63 million it seems you nailed it.  Also 800 mountains in the US vs. 4000 in Europe.  Granted, these numbers are dated.  Source: Sport and Adventure Tourism, 2002, Hudson.

post #19 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by billskis View Post

 

Cerebral - With the US/Canada market at ~7.5M skiers/boarders compared to the remainder of the world of 63 million it seems you nailed it.  Also 800 mountains in the US vs. 4000 in Europe.  Granted, these numbers are dated.  Source: Sport and Adventure Tourism, 2002, Hudson.

 

I was just shocked to find out that so many places in North America still don't use RFID. I stopped skiing around '96, so that was the last I saw of skiing in the US. My ex-girlfriend got me skiing again about 4 years ago (after I moved to the UK) with a trip to her hometown in Poland, where I first saw resorts using RFID. These places were so small, they didn't even need trail maps.

 

So, since these podunk, 2-lift, tiny mountains in Poland had RFID systems, I just assumed it had spread everywhere. All the places in the Alps I've been to since then also had them, and I almost never saw ski jackets that didn't have a pocket on the left arm, so I was really surprized to hear people still talking about lift tickets flapping around when skiing in the US.

post #20 of 23


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralVortex View Post

So, since these podunk, 2-lift, tiny mountains in Poland had RFID systems, I just assumed it had spread everywhere. All the places in the Alps I've been to since then also had them, and I almost never saw ski jackets that didn't have a pocket on the left arm, so I was really surprized to hear people still talking about lift tickets flapping around when skiing in the US.

 

Non-skiing Yurp has chronically invested in RFID (and smart cards); the non-skiing US spent buckets of money on bar codes and optical bar code readers so the reinvestment is slower than you'd think.       The Poles probably never had a bar code ticket system, and it's a lot easier to justify buying the latest and greatest if you don't have  almost-as-good that's already paid for.

 

Going by my own very limited empirical evidence of places where both systems existed side by side, there is a good chance optical bar code still allows faster scanning per ticket scanned, with fewer distance and alignment problems.

post #21 of 23

RFID means lest lifties. Meaning no traffic control, meaning shit show.

 

I used the RFID in Ischgl a couple of years ago. People are rude douchebags with no concern for their fellow snowriders.

post #22 of 23


Not going to discuss the types of passes or the various ways to scam the system (any system).  But as far as the quote below, I was always told by self proclaimed ski experts that the reason behind zip up pockets was that in a fall, they wouldn't be forced open.  Not sure I buy into that because a lot of my epic falls happen head over tips in deep pow.  Plus if you do fill your pockets with snow, then zip ups are hard to clear.  I did like the comment about partially open pockets not as prone to losing stuff...that actually makes some sense.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by billskis View Post

And while I'm at it, anyone know why pocket zippers zip up?



 

post #23 of 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by comprex View Post


 

 

Non-skiing Yurp has chronically invested in RFID (and smart cards); the non-skiing US spent buckets of money on bar codes and optical bar code readers so the reinvestment is slower than you'd think.       The Poles probably never had a bar code ticket system, and it's a lot easier to justify buying the latest and greatest if you don't have  almost-as-good that's already paid for.

 

Going by my own very limited empirical evidence of places where both systems existed side by side, there is a good chance optical bar code still allows faster scanning per ticket scanned, with fewer distance and alignment problems.



The last two offices I worked in before leaving the US both had RFID badges for the doors, and I know my brother and his wife also worked in buildings with the same type of system. I didn't get the impression they were uncommon.

 

I would have thought a barcode system would be more inconvenient. With RFID, you just hold your arm (or chest if you don't have an arm pocket) somewhere near the machine and it recognizes the pass. With a scanner, you have to remove the pass from your pocket or have it attached in a place that is exposed or visible so you can scan it. Removing it from a pocket is obviously inconvenient, and having it exposed increases the risk of surface damage or dirt/snow buildup that prevents the barcode from being read.

 

That's just me theorizing though. If resorts have already spent loads on barcode scanners, there's no need to spend more to get RFID. Personally though, I would have gone straight for the RFID, mainly because I don't trust people to be able to carry something securely while also having it in an exposed or visible location. I assume people are idiots, so I'd go with whatever is more idiot-proof.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

 People are rude douchebags with no concern for their fellow snowriders.


And how does that differ from their behavior on the slopes? Do you think the presence of a liftie would change their behavior in the lines/queues/disorganized mass of people? From what I've seen, people who are willing to act like an ass in front of dozens of other people would not be disuaded by the presence of an apathetic liftie who most likely wouldn't do anything more than give a disapproving look.

 

Maybe roping off separate lines for each spot on the chair would help, but I wouldn't get my hopes up.
 

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