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Ski shop improperly mounted bindings on new S7s - Page 2

post #31 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post

  Folk may get al torqued about lousy service, but consider that you were pretty lucky to get the shop to agree to mount bindings on skis that they did not sell in the first place.  There are lots of shops that will not do that. 

 


Some shops will mount bindings purchased elsewhere, while other choose not to.  If a shop agrees to provide the service they ought to do it right.  Ski shops are being hurt by internet sales, but that is no excuse for a mistake like this.

 

One thought going forward for me... fill out the claim form in detail.  The last pair of skis that I had mounted the rep did it without a jig and with me standing right in front of him.


Edited by Paul Jones - 2/22/11 at 4:00pm
post #32 of 51

Funny this came up. I was getting some Intuitions molded yesterday and had a conversation about this with the tech. He said that they would absolutely replace the ski. His position was that they ruined your ski. It's clearly not unskiable, but your are now more limited if you want to move your bindings around, and resale is even lower.

 

K2skier since your PDX local. It's the Gresham shop.

 

In any case I have had good mounts done by another local shop that others have had bad experiences with. I refuse to sign anything until I have spoken with the actual tech doing the mounting. Especially on a boutique ski that I have waited months to get.

 

Regardless if I bought the ski from them I am still paying for a service that they offer. Not to mention I do lots of business with them on other retail items.  And it is not unreasonable of me to expect the job to be perfect.

post #33 of 51

I would expect shops who learn about this kind of problem to quit mounting other people's skis completely, utterly, ever, never again. there's absolutely no upside for them. imagine the scenario when the ski is purchased on the net. what a double low blow. techs out there, holes can be absolutely waterproofed when filled correctly, right? the only question really. a ski like that you prob won't resell; ski it for at least 200 days if you can, as it will not become outdated or need to be replaced by something wider or better. .

post #34 of 51


This is why I had little recourse myself, I bought (the warm?) skis for $25 then I got the bindings on sale at Jafco, so they only made the mounting fee.

 

The skis are not ruined, violated maybe, but not ruined.

 

Mine were just slightly off so the original hole that was plugged was redrilled with 40% of the new hole over the original hole, they still ski fine today 30+ years later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I would expect shops who learn about this kind of problem to quit mounting other people's skis completely, utterly, ever, never again. there's absolutely no upside for them. imagine the scenario when the ski is purchased on the net. what a double low blow. techs out there, holes can be absolutely waterproofed when filled correctly, right? the only question really. a ski like that you prob won't resell; ski it for at least 200 days if you can, as it will not become outdated or need to be replaced by something wider or better. .

post #35 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I would expect shops who learn about this kind of problem to quit mounting other people's skis completely, utterly, ever, never again. there's absolutely no upside for them. imagine the scenario when the ski is purchased on the net. what a double low blow. techs out there, holes can be absolutely waterproofed when filled correctly, right?


What if they buy the bindings from the shop?th_dunno-1[1].gif

 

I do my own mounts, got a dozen skis currently, all perfect for my taste.  But, I haven't paid over $200 for a pair of skis in as long as I can remember.  If I was to ever pay eek.gif$800 for a pair of skis I'd want them mounted by the people that sold them to me even if that meant shipping a set of my bindings to them.

 

If I owned a shop I wouldn't touch other shop's stuff unless the customer signed away any and all rights to complain about the work.

 

 

post #36 of 51

Dav, yes holes can be plugged and they will be perfectly water tight without any special skills, just plastic hole plugs press-fit into the hole and your good to go.

 

The OP did nothing wrong, the shop messed up, he didn't....

 

but

 

If you want to be extra careful here's what I would do if I wasn't doing it myself:

 

Take masking tape and put a strip along the left edge side of the ski (every tech places the skis into a vice with the left edge toward them, tips facing left) carefully measure both skis from tip to your desired mounting location (on both skis) then measure from tail to the desired mount location... make sure both skis are the same. Mark the point you want by making a thin line with a ball-point pen. Heck write any instructions you want on the tape, the tech will be looking straight down on it and will not miss it.

 

Never trust the manufacturer's lines, never trust instructions to be passed on correctly. Make it fool proof. Tape on the top sheet will NOT BE MISSED by the tech.

 

As far as "boot center" as a term, that could be confused as "center mount" in the telephone-game-passed-on-direction world of backshop goings-on.

post #37 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by habacomike View Post



The cleaner's business model is based solely on selling cleaning as a service.  The local ski shop's business model is based on selling ski equipment and providing after sales service.  Folk may get al torqued about lousy service, but consider that you were pretty lucky to get the shop to agree to mount bindings on skis that they did not sell in the first place.  There are lots of shops that will not do that.  The first mistake you made was not having Starthaus mount the bindings for you.  Then, if something went wrong, they could fix it because they had enough margin in the deal to do so.

 

That doesn't excuse the fact that the shop made a mistake and they should fix it.  But you ought to be reasonable in what you expect.  Expecting them to replace the skis with new ones is unreasonable, IMO.

 

Mike
 


I disagree.  He would have had better luck if they refused to accept the job in the first place.

post #38 of 51

Yeah I agree w/ Whiteroom.  Where I work we usually make the customer sign in sharpie next to a piece of tape on any ski that they don't want right at 0.  Even if they want it at 0 I'll sometimes have them mark the ski, just to make sure, especially if it's a ski we don't sell.

post #39 of 51

This same thing happened to me at the beginning of this season on my Kneissl Fly Stars.  I asked for 1 cm back from the Center of the Scale on the side of the ski (that's about 5 back from center).  I ended up with a Center Mount also.  All they did was remount them and not charge me for the mount.  They ski fine, but you can see the plugs from the old holes, which sucks.

post #40 of 51

Hey, I live in the Albany area. Would you mind sending me a message with the name of the shop and what the fix was? I'm just getting into skiing so I'm trying to feel out who is reputable around here and who is not. Thanks

post #41 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by davluri View Post

I would expect shops who learn about this kind of problem to quit mounting other people's skis completely, utterly, ever, never again. there's absolutely no upside for them. imagine the scenario when the ski is purchased on the net. what a double low blow. techs out there, holes can be absolutely waterproofed when filled correctly, right? the only question really. a ski like that you prob won't resell; ski it for at least 200 days if you can, as it will not become outdated or need to be replaced by something wider or better. .


 

No upside? $40-80 for 15 minutes of work? Not to mention all the people they charge same price to attach system bindings to a track? No upside in that if someone is in your store there is a decent chance they will spring for some doodad that you have a huge markup on? No upside in that if you do good work they will come in for tuning etc? All these places need to do is to emply half competent people who make sure to fill out all forms properly and check thrice drill once.

post #42 of 51

Hypothetical analogy.

You go to the dentist to have a small cavity filled for one hundred dollars.  The dentist doesn't pay attention and destroys your tooth causing you to need an extraction and a tooth implant.  I don't think that many people would find it fair to simply have your 100 dollars refunded.  (Assuming the destruction was solely the dentist's fault)

If a shop doesn't want to take responsibility for the work they should not take on the job.

post #43 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Hecht View Post

Hypothetical analogy.

You go to the dentist to have a small cavity filled for one hundred dollars.  The dentist doesn't pay attention and destroys your tooth causing you to need an extraction and a tooth implant.  I don't think that many people would find it fair to simply have your 100 dollars refunded.  (Assuming the destruction was solely the dentist's fault)

If a shop doesn't want to take responsibility for the work they should not take on the job.

Funny, after reading Whiteroom's post I was reminded of the shocking number or recent cases where doctors have amputated the nonono2.gifincorrect limb on a patient due to communication errors.  People actually recommend writing on yourself with a sharpie before surgery just to make sure.  A couple of years ago a teenager died right up the street at Duke hospital because the staff performed a heart transplant using organs with a completely different/incorrect blood typeeek.gif  If people with those level of educations and systems backing up systems are making huge and fatal errors think about the kid in the back of a ski shop that probably just came in from a 4:20 safety meeting out back before lining up the jig on your $800.00 skis.
 

post #44 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlbanyCO View Post

Hey, I live in the Albany area. Would you mind sending me a message with the name of the shop and what the fix was? I'm just getting into skiing so I'm trying to feel out who is reputable around here and who is not. Thanks



This shop is not in Albany.  It is a shop with a great reputation.  One of the most qualified technicians at the store did the work.  This was just a bad mistake.

 

I wonder if a liability limit could be placed on work orders like this one.  Establish a "cap", something like $200. and make it clear to the customer - put it in writing.

post #45 of 51
Quote:

Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

 

A couple of years ago a teenager died right up the street at Duke hospital because the staff performed a heart transplant using organs with a completely different/incorrect blood typeeek.gif 

 


 

...and then lawyers try to sue.  Where is tort reformrolleyes.gif

post #46 of 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul Jones View Post

I wonder if a liability limit could be placed on work orders like this one.  Establish a "cap", something like $200. and make it clear to the customer - put it in writing.


Maybe a good direction, but then the cap = "My mount is off by 1mm and I can feel it, you owe me $200 or I'll post your name on the internet!".

 

Why would a small shop wish to be working on egg shells all of the time with a continual threat of losing income, reputation and sleep over uber-expectations from customers with mobile broadband. Seems like this could easily disappear and everyone will need to mount their own skis or pay way more and wait longer for the service from a smaller base.

Good for my business, not convenient for the sport.......or worse, you will only have the choice to get bindings pre-mounted or part of a system.

 

A few random thoughts while I had a great time skiing yesterday on my $800 skis that were drilled incorrectly, plugged and re-drilled by myself with no problems or complaints over the past 500k vertical or so:

 

-How many of us make equally small mistakes in our daily lives or work and do not have the same tenfold or more expected repercussions or payback for them but put the hammer down on other imperfect humans?......or are going to step up and volunteer the tenfold or more payback for said mistake?

 

-Is the internet becoming the way to 'extort' services or paybacks by threatening small and seasonal businesses?

 

-The simple waste of resources, time, energy, money and angst over insignificant issues relative to a recreational sport. This is not a major disaster in New Zealand or a life threatening illness, a country re-inventing itself, etc.

 

Where does being reasonable and not sweating the small stuff end for most people anymore?

post #47 of 51

Nicely put.  Lets just go skiing.

post #48 of 51

Alpinord, your post is ridiculous.  OP did not ruin the shops reputation by posting on the internet.  He kept the name out of the discussion.

 

Just because you have no problem with the error made on your skis doesn't mean that some screw ups aren't.  I threw out the figure of $200. as an example only.  I believe that a credible shop will "make good" on it's professional mistakes, and they do all time.  I think this shop needs to pay more attention to what is being requested.  Hell, the guy didn't even get ht and wt, WTF.  He was lax.  The shop needs to implement changes in the way job orders are accepted.

 

Alpinord said,

       "Why would a small shop wish to be working on egg shells all of the time with a continual threat of losing income, reputation and sleep over uber-expectations from customers with mobile broadband """".   

 

Uber-expectations - to get the binding mounted properly?  A good shop does it right.

 

I am not suggesting that the shop be required to buy new skis, but they ought to be held accountable and the shop should step up.

 

...and how is mobile broadband part of this problem?

post #49 of 51

It was a post regarding mounting mistakes IN GENERAL and the propensity for some to expect disproportionate compensation....and will trash a business on the internet if not happy. Mounting mistakes seem to be a convenient lightning rod at times. Continue that drum beat and the service goes away and costs will rise.

 

I'm not disagreeing that this one was a major screw up and needs to be made right. If it's new skis to make everyone happy, then it's new skis. I'd hate for these things to turn into bigger issues than they ought to be IN GENERAL. With this economy, and a seasonal business, some are hanging by a thread and doing what they can with costs and talent. Be tolerant.

 

Regarding the liability cap. Again, maybe a good idea for both sides so it's in black and white and 'forces the discussion' of what the tech is expected to do. Some limits of liability relative to acceptable and measurable (not subjective) tolerances should be included, I guess.

 

.......or learn to drill some holes and mount them yourself.

post #50 of 51

What did the shop end up doing for you?

post #51 of 51
Deep the butthurt runs in this thread... Go ski.
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