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2012 Blizzard Cochise - Page 6

post #151 of 258

Finally got some time on my Cochise 185's yesterday and so far I'm extremely impressed (believe the hype).  They handle amazingly well on hard pack for a ski 108 underfoot, but what stood out was how quick and playful they were in powder with just enough rocker when you needed it.  Very responsive to subtle movements while also super stable.

post #152 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Artemat View Post

Guys, how would you compare those to 2011  Volkl Gotamas? 


Just to make sure we're taking about last years gotama right? The fully rockered one with no flat spot?

The first proto flipcore ski Blizzard built was actually the 193 Cochise. Since Arne's original idea in regards to flipcore was to have a normal camber ski just flipped upside down that origInal proto had a rocker profile very similar to that Gotama from the last few years, almost no flat spot under foot.... He liked it but said he had a hard time finding the balance point on the ski. They made him two more versions, each with a slightly large flat section under foot. The last version was basically the finished 193 Cochise. The 2011/2012 Gotama has quite a bit less rocker than the previous version but still has slightly more than a Cochise. Gotamas are wood/fiberglass construction where as Cochise is wood/metal construction. Cochise will be more damp, bust through crud better and, have more grip on harder snow. Gotama wil be lighter and maybe more "surfy" for lack of a better word. Both good skis with similar dimensions but will feel very different due to their constructions.
post #153 of 258
My 185's just showed up... LOVE the rocker / flat camber profile - it looks perfect for what I want it for, which is charging pow / crud / groomers at the resort. I have 183 Bent Chetlers and skied them last year as my pow ski, but while they're awesome in trees and float very very well, they don't feel burly enough for really charging through chop. Depending on how the Cochise perform, the BC's will likely get Dynafits and be relegated to really deep days and pow touring.



What is the consensus as far as mounting point? Someone (was it the OP?) said they were 1.5 cm back and liked it there, but has anyone played around with the mounting point and learned anything useful? I ski forward and aggressive and hate tip dive, so if going 1 cm back from recommended will help keep the tips at the surface without giving up too much quickness, then I might do that. On the other hand, maybe Blizzard did their research and the recommended point is perfect.



Any thoughts/experience?

Edit: 5'11", 185 lbs, 305 BSL, strong skier on the EC.
post #154 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by U.P. Racer View Post

Best ski I've ever skied on.

 

End of review.



^ Pretty much.  Just back from CO, pretty scratchy and was not even going to ski them but said "What the heck?"  Never got off them.  Not the best on the ice exposed after a couple thousand turns and side slips - but for reasonably soft groomers and cut up pow (got to a run season opening late) - pretty nice.  Most likely could have gone with the 193's but had skied a 185 Girish and like it so I went with the 185's.  No idea on how they ski in powder mounted on the line, but dont think they will be a problem - the Girish @ 185 had less tip rocker and seemed stiffer and I didnt bury the tips much.

 

They were perfectly stable up to the fastest I want to go, yet extremely easy to smear or pivot if needed.  Not bad in the bumps (did not make me avoid them like other skis have).  i would say that they like to be skied from the middle of the ski, If you put them on edge they seem to have plenty of energy coming out of carved turns.  I dont think I would ski them everyday in the East, but out West - no problem.  I doubt the P100's make it to the belly of a plane again. 

 

post #155 of 258

I alluded to this in my post above but didn't say it: the rocker feels more substantial than it looks when you view the profile - so tip diving shouldn't be a problem mounted on center.  Of course, how you ski powder is always going to be a factor.

post #156 of 258

About two hours ago I casually wandered into my local East Coast ski retailer and, what to my wondering eyes should appear, was a pair of 2012 Cochise in 177cm length. I snapped them off the rack and ran over to an employee I'm good buddies with. I exclaimed that I couldn't believe they still had them in stock in that length. He said they just came in two days ago. I was cashing out five minutes later.

 

Not that everyone hasn't seen a thousand pics of them yet, but here's three more, still in the shrink wrap: http://imgur.com/a/okXe1.

 

I'm SO stocked to try these out! No clue what bindings I'm going to mount on them yet.

post #157 of 258

I see you are in Buffalo....I'm in SW Ontario. What shop did you buy your new Cochise at?? Did they also have the Bonafide in stock?

What did you pay?

Thx

post #158 of 258

I bought two pairs of Cochises from Top Shelf in Fernie http://top-shelf.ca/  A couple of weeks ago they had some Cochises and maybe some Bonfides left. Worth a call and talk to Donny

Dave

post #159 of 258

Thanks Dave

 

I live in the east...ski mostly jay and several trips out west (fernie,snowbird).  Trying to decide betweeen the Cochise and Bonafide.  Which one of these skis would be better in the trees? Basically I'm looking for my second ski of a two ski quiver. MY 1st is a Head World Cup SL in a 170cm...I use this on the icey days east or west.  The ski I want to replace is a 88mm underfoot dynastar (completely dead). I want a significantly wider ski underfoot.  I'm 34, 5'11",155lbs advanced (used to coach in the Canadian Rockies). I want something good in the trees, can hold its own on harpack, great in crud, good in pow.  Is the difference in sidecut between the Bone and the Cochise a huge difference?Does the lower sidecut of the Cochise make it more sluggish in the trees?? Any feedback would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Mike

post #160 of 258

The Cochise is great in the trees in soft snow conditions, but on firmer snow it is quite a bit less nimble compared to the bonafide.

post #161 of 258

Larson's Ski and Sport in Wheat Ridge CO has a few pairs, looked like a 177, two 185s, and one or two 193s....

post #162 of 258

CastleDave Thanks for the reply. I thought by the name you must be out near Castle. I instructed for a few years at Sunshine. Lived in Canmore...then calgary. I have likely put in about 40 days at Fernie...love it. Have also skiied a day at Castle ...was amazing also. Hope to get out there at some point this winter.....also hopefully Utah again. Try to get down to JAt,VT every year also....had a couple great 2' pow days there last year..was "almost" like the west. Thanks for the Cochise input.

post #163 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Studesy View Post

I see you are in Buffalo....I'm in SW Ontario. What shop did you buy your new Cochise at?? Did they also have the Bonafide in stock?

What did you pay?

Thx



Snowind Sports (AKA Bud Heishman) has the Cochise in stock, 185 & 177.

He has a few Bonafides in stock too but not sure what sizes at the moment. 

 

 

post #164 of 258

Hey all, new to the forums, thanks for all the great advice and thoughts. Ordered a pair of cochise in the 185 length and look pivot 14's in the XXL brake size. Is this the proper brake width for the ski or would you recommend the 100 mm width and bend them a bit?

 

Thanks in advance

 

(cross post i think)

post #165 of 258

yes the XXL will be perfect, that's what's on mine... well, I went with the men's version, the FKS 180 (I jest), but the XXL is what you want on the Cochise.

post #166 of 258

thanks for the reply! 

 

can't wait to mount them up and ride them....just need it to snow. figure i'm using px12's on a 05-06 enforcer, din 8.5. pivot's should be a nice upgrade on a pair of cochise

post #167 of 258

The "man's version" was purely a joke. The Cochise rips, really fun ski and the Pivot 14 keeps the weight down compared to the 18 DIN pig.

post #168 of 258

no worries. plus i'm 155-160 lbs depending on how much beer went down recently....

post #169 of 258

Anyone ski the Dynastar legend pro rider 115 or 105 and the Cochise? Wonder how the Cochise stacked up in comparison? Though Skiing mag ranked the Cochise and the Bodacious Powder mag never even scored the Cochise just the bod? Also the Bodacious scored high in hard snow performance than the Cochise in the test score numbers? 3.66 Bod vs 3.18 for the Coch? The Bod also scored higher in versatility and over all?

 

  So anyone ski the Bod also or the big legends? Anyone comment on there likes or dislikes on hard so? Thats what makes or breaks a ski for me in these widths. If any of these does well carving the groomers after 3-5 days without new snow thats the clincher. They will obviously ski softer snow to powder great. Its just confusing reading the scores on hard snow and over all scores with the bod being higher in most categories. 6ft 225lbs expert. I will be able to try the cochise soon but not the others I spoke of. Thanks. BTW my quiver is two. EP pros for deep or at least 15cm+++ and Nordica Jetfuels for hard days to ice. The Jets can handel 10cm or less only because they sink to the hard pack beneath.

post #170 of 258

Dawgatching compared the Cochise and D 105 but not the D 115 if that helps 

http://www.epicski.com/t/106987/dawgcatchings-2012-reviews-pt-1-102-112mm-waist-skis

post #171 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipper View Post

Anyone ski the Dynastar legend pro rider 115 or 105 and the Cochise? Wonder how the Cochise stacked up in comparison? Though Skiing mag ranked the Cochise and the Bodacious Powder mag never even scored the Cochise just the bod? Also the Bodacious scored high in hard snow performance than the Cochise in the test score numbers? 3.66 Bod vs 3.18 for the Coch? The Bod also scored higher in versatility and over all?

 

  So anyone ski the Bod also or the big legends? Anyone comment on there likes or dislikes on hard so? Thats what makes or breaks a ski for me in these widths. If any of these does well carving the groomers after 3-5 days without new snow thats the clincher. They will obviously ski softer snow to powder great. Its just confusing reading the scores on hard snow and over all scores with the bod being higher in most categories. 6ft 225lbs expert. I will be able to try the cochise soon but not the others I spoke of. Thanks. BTW my quiver is two. EP pros for deep or at least 15cm+++ and Nordica Jetfuels for hard days to ice. The Jets can handel 10cm or less only because they sink to the hard pack beneath.

I wouldn't read too much into the Skiing Mag test results.  I have heard from more than one industry marketing guy that they operate kind of like Stereophile does when reviewing equipment: ad buy=good review, and an ad buy is required, more or less for coverage. Actually, I wouldn't even bother reading them; they don't tell you anything, like who the reviewer was, what their skill level is, where they skied it. You know, stuff that is actually relevant to making a purchasing decision.  Some guy looking for a great carver for his local Minnesota hill isn't going to be impressed with a ski test done at Mammoth.  Trouble is, there is almost no info on who/what/where.  

 

The Boadicous is a monster of a ski.  Great ski, but you need to show up.  It is stiffer than the 115 or the 105, more demanding, and needs juice just to get into the groove.  Never skied it on firm groomers; but it has a big feel, and probably is like a freight train, not a carver.  The Cochise is easier to ski than the 105 or 115: both have a more solid, pro freeski feel than the Cochise, which is much more playful (and why so many people like it.  It is easy to ski, even for intermediates).  The 105 and 115 are serious skis and push around lesser skiers, even lightweights like myself can find them to be a lot of work.  I really think that is the key to people loving that ski (and the Bonafide, to an extent): anyone can have a good time on it, yet it isn't a wimpy, lame ski.  There are a lot of skis that can be a lot of work for less-skilled skiers, especially in the big-mountain category, and rewarding to those skiers with high levels of skill and fitness.  People find the Cochise very accessable, and while there are better skis in terms of top-end performance, there aren't many that are better and just as easy to ski.  For example, the Katana I was skiing today was more stable and better at speed, but it can push you around, and is less forgiving at slower speeds and less tolerant of mistakes. 

 

 

post #172 of 258

Good info thanks Dawgcatcher!! Yes I do realize and notice the manufactures who subscribe to the mags have a bias toward who there largest contributor is that's for sure!!! In other mags also. I'm looking at the new and improved Goode also. I like that they use wood cores this year for the first time. More like the DPS only a little more traditional shaped. I just want a ski that has enough rebound to send me air borne from turn to turn on a firm groomer short radius then open them up and have enough edge to not worry about finding that edge before I die:] Then on days when we get a foot or less play finding first tracks till afternoon on busy resort days. Then bust crud and soft groomers the afternoon away with out having to swap skis at lunch time.

 

   Yesterday was a perfect example. I brought my EP pros at 127 waist with 916 steels and my Hotrod Jetfuels at 84 under foot. It was -5 and foot of fresh very busy!! I went were I knew most less than expert skiers wouldn't dare because its so steep. I was able to get first tracks there and second. I managed first tracks on one more run then the whole mountain started getting cut up really bad. By lunch you couldn't even make one turn into a patch left or right. All skiing over tracked out powder by mostly snowboards. They have a tendency to really cut deep into the snow and make skiing with my softer EP,s a little bouncy even on edge. Sooooo. At lunch i swapped out the fatties and pulled out the Jetfuels because they did some really great grooming just before open and it was soft and yummy!! I just ripped the face wide open the rest of the day at maybe even 50-60mph some times. Other times I did short radius trying to do them snappy enough to launch at the end of each turn to turn just for fun on steeps.

 

  I want a ski that will do this me being 6ft 225 athletic expert skier without having to swap out skis with only a foot or less. Over a foot Ill use the EP for sure. There fun fun fun in really deep!!

 

  The afternoon when the powder was busted up I would like to still play in that only do GS turns in it air born a little but not getting Bucked around!! AND still carve on those groomers in 3 or 4 days from now if it hasn't snowed. biggrin.gif Gee I just read this I'm not asking for much am I. I got these skis in mind.

 

  High Society-FK rocker

  DPS Wailer112

  Cochise

  Bodacious

  Lib tech 151-115-141

  Kastle FX104 or BMX108?

  Goode Rahu 116mm

  Goode Sorcerer at 106MM This one seems interesting to me at 30 radius and wood core same as the 116 wood cores Rahu??

  Katana

  Girish The problem with the girish i heard it had foam in the core? I don't like that idea 3 years from now.

   TST I tried and it sucked on groomers at speed. that tip was flapping so bad it was unreal!!Not made for going 50+mph on groomers.

 

   Its hard to find info on the Goode new skis since they went wood core this year and started making them in Utah? DPS has a following and guessing the new Goode ski very good also?

 

   Any thoughts on this mumbo jumbo?

  

   Cochise might do it all in the long length for my size? The FX 104 and MX 108 also apeal to me. But Goodes got my attention big time now. Next year Ill bet there in the lime light way more than before. The full carbon models were great for trekking but not so much for resort skiing like the wood core is.

post #173 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipper View Post

 

 

  Girish The problem with the girish i heard it had foam in the core? I don't like that idea 3 years from now.

   

  


^Dont think that is correct - you should try them out - they are really fine skis and Blister has a great review:

 

http://blistergearreview.com/

 

post #174 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipper View Post

  Girish The problem with the girish i heard it had foam in the core? I don't like that idea 3 years from now.

  

you heard wrong. I find it strange that you are suspicious of the Nordica durability but seem excited about Goode.

post #175 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by whipper View Post

Good info thanks Dawgcatcher!! Yes I do realize and notice the manufactures who subscribe to the mags have a bias toward who there largest contributor is that's for sure!!! In other mags also. I'm looking at the new and improved Goode also. I like that they use wood cores this year for the first time. More like the DPS only a little more traditional shaped. I just want a ski that has enough rebound to send me air borne from turn to turn on a firm groomer short radius then open them up and have enough edge to not worry about finding that edge before I die:] Then on days when we get a foot or less play finding first tracks till afternoon on busy resort days. Then bust crud and soft groomers the afternoon away with out having to swap skis at lunch time.

 

   Yesterday was a perfect example. I brought my EP pros at 127 waist with 916 steels and my Hotrod Jetfuels at 84 under foot. It was -5 and foot of fresh very busy!! I went were I knew most less than expert skiers wouldn't dare because its so steep. I was able to get first tracks there and second. I managed first tracks on one more run then the whole mountain started getting cut up really bad. By lunch you couldn't even make one turn into a patch left or right. All skiing over tracked out powder by mostly snowboards. They have a tendency to really cut deep into the snow and make skiing with my softer EP,s a little bouncy even on edge. Sooooo. At lunch i swapped out the fatties and pulled out the Jetfuels because they did some really great grooming just before open and it was soft and yummy!! I just ripped the face wide open the rest of the day at maybe even 50-60mph some times. Other times I did short radius trying to do them snappy enough to launch at the end of each turn to turn just for fun on steeps.

 

  I want a ski that will do this me being 6ft 225 athletic expert skier without having to swap out skis with only a foot or less. Over a foot Ill use the EP for sure. There fun fun fun in really deep!!

 

  The afternoon when the powder was busted up I would like to still play in that only do GS turns in it air born a little but not getting Bucked around!! AND still carve on those groomers in 3 or 4 days from now if it hasn't snowed. biggrin.gif Gee I just read this I'm not asking for much am I. I got these skis in mind.

 

  High Society-FK rocker

  DPS Wailer112

  Cochise

  Bodacious

  Lib tech 151-115-141

  Kastle FX104 or BMX108?

  Goode Rahu 116mm

  Goode Sorcerer at 106MM This one seems interesting to me at 30 radius and wood core same as the 116 wood cores Rahu??

  Katana

  Girish The problem with the girish i heard it had foam in the core? I don't like that idea 3 years from now.

   TST I tried and it sucked on groomers at speed. that tip was flapping so bad it was unreal!!Not made for going 50+mph on groomers.

 

   Its hard to find info on the Goode new skis since they went wood core this year and started making them in Utah? DPS has a following and guessing the new Goode ski very good also?

 

   Any thoughts on this mumbo jumbo?

  

   Cochise might do it all in the long length for my size? The FX 104 and MX 108 also apeal to me. But Goodes got my attention big time now. Next year Ill bet there in the lime light way more than before. The full carbon models were great for trekking but not so much for resort skiing like the wood core is.


Lots of good skis there.  I just skied the Katana, BMX108, Cochise, and a couple of others in fairly deep new snow conditions. All really good skis: difference in character more than performance.  I have skied the FX104 (last spring), it is probably the best hard snow ski on your list, of the ones I have tried at least.  I own a 94 and it holds better than anything I have tried in that waist width. 

 

post #176 of 258

Wow after reading this thread I have all I can do to resist ordering some of these.  I'm in the market for skis after renting for too long and these sound like a good fit.  I wonder if anybody can tell me if the 177s or 185's would be better?

 

I'm 5' 11" / 145lbs

a little rough sometimes in my technique but getting pretty comfortable on blacks

I ski in CO. I like the bowls and trees, but sometimes ski with friends who prefer the blue groomers.

 

I was looking at the Mantra, Lord, or Theory but these Cochise skis seems better.

 

post #177 of 258
I'm not an amazing skier like many of you are here...more or less your typical intermediate who's looking to buy better skiing with better equipment...haha (sort of!). Can't do bumps, can do SOME blacks but prefer to stick with blue groomers and at my tender age of 54, not going to be a superstar racer anytime soon....BUT, I REALLY want to be able to carve more and wondering whether or not this ski will help me become a better skier. I know many will simply tell me to take lessons, but I do that already. Just want to buy the best gear to help me get to the next level.

Soooo, my question is, do you think Cochise will a) help get me to the next level and b) is the ski also a decent choice for an intermediate skier.

If it helps any, my current ski is a K2 Charger with rocker technology...also not sure if there's a huge difference between the Cochise and the K2.
post #178 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by river-z View Post

Wow after reading this thread I have all I can do to resist ordering some of these.  I'm in the market for skis after renting for too long and these sound like a good fit.  I wonder if anybody can tell me if the 177s or 185's would be better?

 

I'm 5' 11" / 145lbs

a little rough sometimes in my technique but getting pretty comfortable on blacks

I ski in CO. I like the bowls and trees, but sometimes ski with friends who prefer the blue groomers.

 

I was looking at the Mantra, Lord, or Theory but these Cochise skis seems better.

 

Don't get carried away in the hype, you need to get a ski that is appropriate for your level of skiing and technique.  Mantra is too much ski for someone who is just getting comfortable on blacks.  A wide ski with flat camber and a decent amount of metal in it, like a Cochise would not be my first choice either.  Fatter skis demand good edge angles on anything but powder, and it sounds like it will be an additional burden and would hamper your progress.  I'd go for something softer and more moderate width (88-94)-ish (Legend 94?).   At 145 lb a 185 Cochise looks rather suicidal.     
 

 

post #179 of 258

If you like to be on blue groomers, you need a carver or a wide carver.   A ski like Cochise is meant to be taken off-trail, it may be competent enough on groomers (have not been on it, so can't tell), but they won't be its strong suit.  Skiing it on groomers is also going to be a waste of the ski potential.  If a ski is a ski of the year it does not mean that it is a ticket for everyone.  A friend who sticks to blue groomers just bought a Blizzard 8.7 and he is very happy with it (of course Tahoe conditions have been far from typical).  
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by swisstrader View Post

I'm not an amazing skier like many of you are here...more or less your typical intermediate who's looking to buy better skiing with better equipment...haha (sort of!). Can't do bumps, can do SOME blacks but prefer to stick with blue groomers and at my tender age of 54, not going to be a superstar racer anytime soon....BUT, I REALLY want to be able to carve more and wondering whether or not this ski will help me become a better skier. I know many will simply tell me to take lessons, but I do that already. Just want to buy the best gear to help me get to the next level.
Soooo, my question is, do you think Cochise will a) help get me to the next level and b) is the ski also a decent choice for an intermediate skier.
If it helps any, my current ski is a K2 Charger with rocker technology...also not sure if there's a huge difference between the Cochise and the K2.


 

post #180 of 258
Quote:
Originally Posted by dawgcatching View Post


Lots of good skis there.  I just skied the Katana, BMX108, Cochise, and a couple of others in fairly deep new snow conditions. ...

 



Bastard.  I mean, braggart.

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