Is the lift ticket pricing model killing the sport? - Page 4

Edgewood?
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dork of pow 

I often think of the golf analogy as well. I work at a Tahoe golf course that charges $250 high season for a round. Some things to consider. In Ski Resort areas, the golf course also only operate 6 mos out of the year. Coming from Boca you know that most Florida golf courses have to make their money during 6 mos out of the year as well (Do they still have cancer cards in the summer?) The main difference is that a Golf Course is limited to about 200 guests per day depending upon their tee time spacing. Heavenly can have upwards of 15,000 guests on a busy day.

 

Maybe the little guys will make a comeback with a new type of model like that of Shames Mountain or the Mountain Riders Alliance.

and yes, edgewood

Quote:

Originally Posted by Artemat 

Yeah, unfortunately skiing might become another one of those sports that belongs to a certain class of the society that can afford it . I remember my father and I stopping by the local ski shop to see what it will cost me (a poor hight school student) to get on skis.. How shocked we were Boots 300, skis 400, bindings 200 season pass 350..... ...No one told us that you can get this used equipment, as the matter of fact, there was no place that would sell it used here in Wenatchee.  Not until after I graduated from college I was able to afford skiing ( used boots, used skis, season pass on sale)......Fortunately there are still ways to ski cheap, but those are hidden to most of the beginners, what beginner sees first is the ticket price at the window, sticker price for new skis and a horribly hight lesson price. If you dig the webpage of Mission Ridge - you will find a "Beginner Pass" for 320 dollars they offer a season pass with  rentals for the year and 3 lessons included, but - YOU HAVE TO LOOK... Being a beginner I missed that deal 5 years ago. I would like to see resorts being more "Beginner" friendly where it is well marked and beginners are steered the right way.

 

That's one reason I started http://www.epicski.com/t/107349/what-does-your-local-mountain-do-to-encourage-new-skiers#post_1393302

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xela 

It could be that the pricing model is killing the sport in a different way.  Here is a post I made in a related thread.  The basic idea being that the big guys are putting the little guys out of business and it's the little guys who are the "entry level".

I recall an interview with Glen Plake a while back where he actually made mention of Sky Tavern (near Reno) and commented on little hills in the midwest.  He urged people to support these little places because they're feeders to the bigger places and they are the source of the seed of passion for skiing. 

In fact, I recall Glen Plake visiting our little 400 ft vert hill in Michigan when I was younger. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by dork of pow 

Maybe the little guys will make a comeback with a new type of model like that of Shames Mountain or the Mountain Riders Alliance.

 

 

and yes, edgewood

I would love to see the little guys make it.  In fact, I think I'm going to commit to skiing a couple of the small places each year and do my part, which has taken a back seat(no pun intended) since I moved to Tahoe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekchick 

I recall an interview with Glen Plake a while back where he actually made mention of Sky Tavern (near Reno) and commented on little hills in the midwest.  He urged people to support these little places because they're feeders to the bigger places and they are the source of the seed of passion for skiing. 

In fact, I recall Glen Plake visiting our little 400 ft vert hill in Michigan when I was younger. 

Glen Plake also visited Wilmot Wisconsin when I was a kid.  I believe it was part of a K2 tour america trip.  He was a cool dude (then and now).

I was very happy that Camelback (PA) offered the $199 weekday/after 3pm weekend pass.  Otherwise, I'd be doing a lot less skiing.  It was interesting that Camelback offered the pass, but Blue did not (they remained around $500 or so...a price too expensive when buying for myself and Smarty, Jr.). 

I was hoping for a price WAR.

But as far as the OP.  I'm pretty sure that if it was my (and son's) first time...and I paid $50 for a ticket (each), $50 for rentals (each), $50 for lessons (each), $50 gas, $50 food (and other stuff) = $400 (assuming I didn't need to buy any gloves, hats, pants, etc) and ended up cold, wet, and sore...I'm not sure I'd go back.

-Smarty

-Smarty 
 

When I lived in Michigan, I helped keep a ski program alive for a small(struggling) church school.  

Caberfae Peaks offered 10.00 lift tickets, 2.00 ski rental and 6.00 snowboard rental for the kids.  Parents who chaperoned were FREE!

There were several kids who learned to ski on this little hill and several families who skied together because of the generosity of Caberfae Peaks.

This is a young girl who's (German) grandfather drove a car load of kids for me/us.  He hadn't' skied since he lived in Germany, but decided to try it because it was free.  Now he takes his granddaughter skiing on a regular basis and has fallen in love with skiing again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekchick 

I recall an interview with Glen Plake a while back where he actually made mention of Sky Tavern (near Reno) and commented on little hills in the midwest.  He urged people to support these little places because they're feeders to the bigger places and they are the source of the seed of passion for skiing. 

In fact, I recall Glen Plake visiting our little 400 ft vert hill in Michigan when I was younger. 

I would love to see the little guys make it.  In fact, I think I'm going to commit to skiing a couple of the small places each year and do my part, which has taken a back seat(no pun intended) since I moved to Tahoe.

 

 

Donner Ski Ranch is the place to go. Family owned. They have a policy of staying open til the snow is gone. At the end of the year the owner will drive you to the backside in the back of his truck so you can access the lift there. At the top he's got a 30 pack waiting for everyone. Lift tickets (high season adult) are $45. Beginners lesson, lift ticket, and rentals; $66

ski date?
 

Really? Baker has no snowmaking, only grooms a small portion of the mountain, no high speed lifts and has one of the dumpiest lodges out there.

They also set a new record (again) for season passes and have made the cover of three skiing magazines so far this season. Maybe, for some, it IS about the skiing.

I really don't think locals care much about those amenities. The definition of a "locals mountain" is basically a ski area with minimal amenities, good skiing and affordable lift tickets. Fancy resorts are for tourists.

Speaking for myself, I rarely use the lodge for anything but taking a leak and I could care less about snowmaking or foof. I split most of my time between Snowbasin and Powder Mtn, which are at opposite ends of the spectrum in terms of lodges, dining, services. The lodges at Snowbasin are great, and I love grabbing a drink by the roaring fire or an occasional meal at the carving station, but the fancy lodges have exactly zero effect on where I'm riding for the day.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgcatching 
Then again, it is pretty well known that our society is becoming much more stratified (GINI coefficient has moved quite dramatically in the past 20 years) so we see the top getting richer, and everyone else treading water.  It could be that resorts are catering to the sliver at the top (which is the norm in many industries these days), and pricing the average customer out. Certainly, it seems that way at some areas.  Unfortunately, middle-class customers experience this 1st-class service on a trip, and expect their local hill to be similar, only with $40/day tickets.  I am not so sure that is a great business model in the long term.  Perhaps for a few resorts, but not for the majority.

My understanding is that Heavenly considers its customer base's income starts at $160,000/family and goes up from there. And I believe that is on the low end of Vail's portfolio.

I think there is a difference between wanting it to be like the mega resorts and at least keeping up with some changes. IE my local resort sunk five million dollars into a water park, but has yet to fix the only top to bottom lift that broke down two seasons ago. Then they raise the ski lift ticket prices to pay for the water park and a new bar in the lodge. That is why I don't ski there much anymore. A season pass there is more than one to a "major" resort.

Here in BC, most mountains are about 70-100/day (Grouse, Cypress, Seymour, Whistler)!!  Definitely getting really really expensive.

Think how much that $70/day is a bargin when you consider that Southeastern Indiana's 400 vertical feet is $45/day: http://www.perfectnorth.com/lift_tickets_and_rentals.php

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylrwnzl 

I think there is a difference between wanting it to be like the mega resorts and at least keeping up with some changes. IE my local resort sunk five million dollars into a water park, but has yet to fix the only top to bottom lift that broke down two seasons ago. Then they raise the ski lift ticket prices to pay for the water park and a new bar in the lodge. That is why I don't ski there much anymore. A season pass there is more than one to a "major" resort.

Oh you ski at Silver Mountain Idaho too???

Quote:

Originally Posted by FujativeOCR 

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylrwnzl 

I think there is a difference between wanting it to be like the mega resorts and at least keeping up with some changes. IE my local resort sunk five million dollars into a water park, but has yet to fix the only top to bottom lift that broke down two seasons ago. Then they raise the ski lift ticket prices to pay for the water park and a new bar in the lodge. That is why I don't ski there much anymore. A season pass there is more than one to a "major" resort.

Oh you ski at Silver Mountain Idaho too???

Nope, but apparently idiots in management grow in pairs.

Quote:

Originally Posted by tylrwnzl 

Nope, but apparently idiots in management grow in pairs.

 

LOLs

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trekchick 

I would love to see the little guys make it.  In fact, I think I'm going to commit to skiing a couple of the small places each year and do my part, which has taken a back seat(no pun intended) since I moved to Tahoe.

 

 

I teach at a small local hill (Granite Gorge in NH), they cater to the beginner, with after school programs and reasonable prices for the parents to join their kids for some skiing after the lessons. I could teach at one of the big resorts near by, but I enjoy the family atsmosphere of the local hill. I dont think many avid skiers would enjoy their day here, but that is not the market Granite Gorge is looking to serve.

They market to the beginner and the family... and they are doing quite well at it.  Not all resorts have to be Vail.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dork of pow 

Donner Ski Ranch is the place to go. Family owned. They have a policy of staying open til the snow is gone. At the end of the year the owner will drive you to the backside in the back of his truck so you can access the lift there. At the top he's got a 30 pack waiting for everyone. Lift tickets (high season adult) are $45. Beginners lesson, lift ticket, and rentals; $66

 

ski date?
 

 

You, me, dookey......have to take donkey or he'll get jealous. 

Dookey??? Ok, but if he tries to slip me the tongue again i will NOT be pleased.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dork of pow 

Dookey??? Ok, but if he tries to slip me the tongue again i will NOT be pleased.

I'll be sure to post the pics!

If ski areas must charge such high rates for skiing, then they should open one "free lift" to encourage people to learn to ski.  The free lift would increase the number of skiers and make it affordable for 1st timers to justify spending on rentals and lodging.  I'll bet that certain lodges and ski shops would help supplement the cost. 

I know that they used to do that here, but not sure they do it anymore.  I can't find anything about it on the website.  

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumpa 

If ski areas must charge such high rates for skiing, then they should open one "free lift" to encourage people to learn to ski.  The free lift would increase the number of skiers and make it affordable for 1st timers to justify spending on rentals and lodging.  I'll bet that certain lodges and ski shops would help supplement the cost. 

The Pitchfork lift (and magic carpets) are free at Copper for the most part- technically they offer a $10/day ticket (in prev years), but I have never seen them check for it.  

Most never evers would be best off sticking to magic carpet or the very flat lifts until they are sure they are ready to progress.   

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumpa 

If ski areas must charge such high rates for skiing, then they should open one "free lift" to encourage people to learn to ski.  The free lift would increase the number of skiers and make it affordable for 1st timers to justify spending on rentals and lodging.  I'll bet that certain lodges and ski shops would help supplement the cost. 

I do know of a ski area in NH that offered free beginner area lift (magic carpet) for kids

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stumpa 

If ski areas must charge such high rates for skiing, then they should open one "free lift" to encourage people to learn to ski.  The free lift would increase the number of skiers and make it affordable for 1st timers to justify spending on rentals and lodging.  I'll bet that certain lodges and ski shops would help supplement the cost. 

Bretton Woods has free skiing on their Learning Center Quad. Pretty decent sized bunny slopes (two accessible from the top of the lift) and a progression park.

alta offers some free lifts after 3 pm.

http://www.alta.com/pages/skifreeafter3.php