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Tactics for Bumps - Page 4

post #91 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Anybody wonder how natural bumps would form if the vast majority of skiers avoided the zipper line instead of slamming it?   To me skiing erratic and chaotically formed bumps is way more challenging and fun than skiing pure seeded ones.  But for bumps to form at all lots of folks need to be turning in the same spots. 


From the looks of things, the only "real skiers" here are the ones who ski at Hemingway's Last Home -- and most especially the kids of those people.  Think of the children!

 

It's sad when someone's so insecure that he has to constantly brag on his kids on the Internet.  People's skiing speaks for itself.  There's no need to project an image on the Internet.  There's no need to show everyone "how great I am" by showing videos of "here's my kid, he's AWESOME!" 

 

If someone is a highly skilled skier, the people who matter from the perspective of who you'd want to impress --the other highly skilled skiers-- will know when they see that skier making turns. 

 

Bragging about being great, on the Internet, is a fool's game.  It proves nothing.  And in my view, using one's children's skiing to promote one's self as a hero, that's sad, and it puts undue pressure on the kid(s).  Let kids be kids.  Don't live vicariously through them.

 

post #92 of 132

Speaking about kids it's supposed to be about what's "fun" right?  Unless you're competing for judges scores, fastest time, and other things that result in REAL money what else really matters besides how much fun you're having?th_dunno-1[1].gif

post #93 of 132

Hi Nail,

 your skiing and the other videos is quite different and people can decide which they like.

 

But your video on Holiday certainly does NOT look the yellow or the red line painted over the moguls - 

it wanders much more left and right (mostly right, but that may be camera angle)

 

I understand you dont like "slamming the rut"   But i think you skiing shows a mix of "stuffing the tips" (left side)

and slamming the rut (right side)

 

I dont have a dog in this fight, but your words and your skiing dont exactly line up.  Just look where the snow flies

nail.tif

post #94 of 132

 

Quote:
Griz wrote:
I find it amusing that you guys assume you know my skiing level, skill, ability.  That's very amusing.  Your posts denigrating me tell me more about your inabilities and limitations, and insecurities, than they accurately predict my lack of skill or tactics.

 

Go on, assume I'm a skill-less, e-skier troll.  I'm sure that helps you feel like Bump Gods.  You can have your zipperline/high zipperline deity status.  I'm not interested -- not because I can't, but because it's not fun to me.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here Griz, but since you showed up on this thread and graced us all with your presence, you haven't contributed to the technical discussion at all and have really only stated biased views and opinions on techniques and tactics that you cant' match or perform and define as  "boring" because you are either uninterested or simply don't consider fun. 

 

The you carry on with some type of completely off topic parental or personal counseling rant on how a person should live their life and gain the respect of others???

 

Somehow this series of posts is supposed to grant you irrevocable respect? 

 

IMO, talk is cheap, as I've repeatedly been told, everyone can easily navigate the technical line, but no one can show themselves or others actually doing it.

 

Since you're obviously not a skill-less e-skier troll and you've mastered navigating the technical line to the point of boredom, earn some respect and post some video backing up your claims/abilities, I'm sure it would be fun and certainly not "boring".

 

It seems to me, the people that are afraid or unwilling to back up their statements/opinions with video are the individuals that are suffering from insecurities, inabilities and limitations.  I've got plenty of video posted, how about you?

 

 

 

 

 

 

post #95 of 132

Nail,

 

Check out this video of my Buddy Luke, who is a solid skier.  Are any of his turns or tactic SVMM-like (he ain't Joey Cordeau, so no style point comments!)?  He'd say he varies turn shape, and tactics...does any of his turn fit the mold?  I ask, because if it's close, I'm going to have him show me how to ski the technical line.

 

http://www.vimeo.com/10309789

 

Oh, please excuse my inane narration during-I was being silly on purpose.

 

 

I'm sorry this is short-it wasn't meant for MA.

 

 

Liam

post #96 of 132

 

Quote:
Doc wrote:

Hi Nail,

 your skiing and the other videos is quite different and people can decide which they like.

 

But your video on Holiday certainly does NOT look the yellow or the red line painted over the moguls - 

it wanders much more left and right (mostly right, but that may be camera angle)

 

I understand you dont like "slamming the rut"   But i think you skiing shows a mix of "stuffing the tips" (left side)

and slamming the rut (right side)

 

Hey Doc, 

 

I don't see myself slamming sideways into the rut, but agree in this section, my left turn is usually stuffing the tips, followed by a right backside turn.  I'm very comfortable turning either left or right into the mogl face, I don't have a preference and don't think about it.  The backside turn is very smooth and sometimes my look like the tails bounce off the rut below, but usually hooks up and finishes before I get that low.

 

Both the red and yellow line represent the technical line or skiing over the tops.   The yellow line is usually a combination of turning into the mogul face (stuffing the tips) linked with a turn down the backside.  This is the focus and intent of SVMM.  It is quite rare this can be done consistently in natural terrain as it is random, the Holiday video is no exception as the terrain is very asymmetrical, there are no zipperlines longer than 3 or 4 turns.  In order to ski a perfect yellow line, a perfect zipperline is required, because I'm only shifting approx. 3' laterally from it.  I think my intent and focus is clear in the Holiday video, I'm clearly turning into the mogul face whenever I can and definitely not tracing the bottom of the zipperline.

 

I talked about the sequence @ :41 and :55 in a previous post, I flew right over the next mogul below me, it certainly wasn't boring let me tell you, regardless of the the "Griz" says. LOL

 

Regarding the pic from 1:55, I think it would help if the backside turn before it was posted, so here it is.

 

Nail151.jpg

 

Clearly a sweet backside turn followed by stuffing the tips into the bump/knob below at 1:55.

 

 

Quote:
Doc wrote:
I dont have a dog in this fight, but your words and your skiing dont exactly line up.

 

I think the pics line up with the words quite well, throughout most of the video also.  It's not a perfect world Doc, the yellow illustrated line clearly represents the technical line in a picture that is fairly symmetrical for 6 moguls, usually natural terrain is no where near as symmetrical as the bumps or line in the illustration though.  Look at how high I go off/over the bump @1:55 and I clearly turned into it.  I agree, I did not go straight over it, but look at what is below that thing.  I wouldn't consider the bump @ 1:55 anywhere near typically shaped or formed.

 

The key with SVMM is that transitioning broken lines is seamless, we try to maintain a cadence with our turns, we never have to wait or hesitate between turns, we certainly don't pivot our skis sideways and slide statically down to the bottom of the rut.  So if a rut is in my line, I may have to turn with it (deflect) or turn into it and I may have to link 3 or 4 zipperline turns or higher up off the shoulder before the zipperline will ends or shifts or I can climb out of it. 

 

 

 

post #97 of 132


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post

CVJ,

 

I know you're a ripping skier--and I love the videos Nail has posted of you (and your classic stuff from the 80's, too).

 

But I got to say, I can't follow any of your posts.  Seriously, they are harder to translate than the posts by that Chinese guy Norman (who uses the google translator!).

 

I only bring this up because I am interested in the ideas and methods of leading skiers (like yourself).  I don't care about spelling or grammar, but if you would maybe re-read your posts once before hitting submit to make sure someone who doesn't know you will understand what your saying it would be greatly appreciated.

 

 

When there are so many ? to answer you may need to go back to see which ?'s are being answered to get what is said. Sorry for rambling but a lot of ? that go all over board. Not on this site every day to check what is being discussed either I coach kids 6 days a week and they get it.

 

No one IMO stays on any given subject long enough to get much out of it.  Others to me talk Russian and I don't understand were the come from and say nothing about skiing technique and say the same thing over and over. Then it is how much fun one is having is all that matters. Stay on task and talk skiing technique would help everyone enjoy this thread more.

 

Your video does show some of what we are saying however the skier needs more downhill ski to start the turn and pressure between the ski and snow so the ski can come across the fall line faster, and release the edges quicker at the end of the turn which is also the beginning of the next turn. As getting high in the C or above the fall line happens in the previous turn. Hope this is understandable.

 

Would it be OK with you if I hit submit know. Yes have a lot of different ideas about how to get there. Sorry for not being so easy to understand.

 

Griz no one said anyone sucked but you. This thread is bump skiing tactics is it not.

 

 


 

 


Edited by cvj - 3/9/11 at 5:22pm
post #98 of 132

 

Quote:
Liam wrote:

 

Check out this video of my Buddy Luke, who is a solid skier.  Are any of his turns or tactic SVMM-like (he ain't Joey Cordeau, so no style point comments!)?  He'd say he varies turn shape, and tactics...does any of his turn fit the mold?  I ask, because if it's close, I'm going to have him show me how to ski the technical line.

 

If I were you, I'd definitely try to tag up with him.  Get some more video BTW.

 

You friend is certainly trying to stay out of the rut and work his own line, this is good.   It appears that he is meandering and crossing the mogul at close to 90 deg. and can do this at slower speeds.  He's working on a lot of good things here, hands down the fall line, linking turns and usually turning as soon as he goes over a bump.  I like how he pulls his skis back near the end of the video as he floated over the mogul and pressured his tips.  The last few turns were different from the top section as he was more in the fall line.   He's close to working on SVMM, but not fall line enough IMO, I think he is held back by a weak QCT as most skiers are. 

 

I think if Luke concentrated on developing a quicker, more powerful QCT, he would be able to start turning into the mogul face  with a lot more speed and aggression, as opposed to across the bump further down.  Have you suggested to him to read this thread, I think he could glean some info.  Especially watching the CVJ/SVMM video and Joey's QCT video, the view from the backside could open doors for him.   If you ski with him this weekend, tell him to turn into the mogul face and get the feel, maybe start on something low angle and bumped up.  Start by standing on top of a bump sideways and drop down and turn into the mogul face, then a backside turn, then stuff the tips again.  Try to get 3 turns linked, it'll will quickly build to 5.  GL

post #99 of 132


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Liam View Post

Nail,

 

Ok-that's an instructive video.  Most of your approach is tactical-using a short, rotated/edged carve that runs over the higher portions (not necessarily the top) of a bump down the front and up the backside of the next mogul as much as possible.  LOoks like a good soft snowy day!

 

John Clendenin in his Clendenin Method website (and book) promotes a very similar approach, tactically, of skiing 'up the bump' for speed control.   He used to have a few great videos right on his website of him, one of his instructors, and Scott Brooksbank skiing up and over bumps...but now they are only available on his DVD (for $ and not free).  Anyway, his tactics were very similar (but, no offense, looked smooth as silk)--are you guys familar with Brooksbank and Clendenin's approach?

 

They do a lot more of 'bumps for older folks' now--but the few videos of them free skiing (and not merely guiding a much less talented client around an Aspen bump run) show a pretty smooth, technical over the top approach (not every time, but often).

1st statement rotated edge carve call it what you want it is a SL turn or QCT on the groomed. Now where do you think a skier could make this same turn in the mogul  field on the Yellow line or find the big white spots on top of the mogul where no one skis. Then it is always a soft snowy day.
 

Not even close to what the QCT is. Boomers shopping for turns all over the run from this to that side not linking any turns in the fall line. The video is unorganized and does the same thing  one subject to the next like the boomers do go from one side of the run to the other side of the run.


Edited by cvj - 3/9/11 at 5:45pm
post #100 of 132

 

 

Quote:
TPJ wrote:
Of course I forgot that you think you are extending into the front side of the bump, even though all of your crappy videos show the opposite.  Extending into the front of the bump is Bassackwards and we covered that stuff many weeks ago.  Remember ex-centric/concentric muscular contraction?

 

You still don't get it,  I actively close my hips, extend my knees and close my ankles as I finish my turn into the mogul face.  Whether my knee closes due to compression is what I would call, passive absorption, it simply "happens" with no conscious effort or direction.  Got it? 

 

I could really care less how you do it, because after reading your posts, I can see you have no idea what you are talking about as far as skiing the technical line or over the tops.  The QCT is the KEY to unlocking fall line natural terrain skiing and you want me to "give it a rest already"?  Are you out of your mind?  Give it a rest already?  I tell you what, instead of trying to incoherently attempting to describe how to ski the technical line, why don't you "Man UP" and just post some video so we can all see "how it's done".  Since my videos are so crappy in your opinion, let's take a look how you execute a QCT and how smoothly you navigate the technical line, all you've got to do is post some video. 

 

 

Quote:
TPJ wrote:
As far as passive absorption goes....  I suppose that the shock absorbers on a car are passive absorbers.  I like to relate flexion/extension of the lower body to the shock absorbers on a car, but I really think that looking ahead and actively anticipating lifting the feet and more importantly actively pushing them back down works better for human beings than staying "loose" and trying let it happen passively.

 

Really, that is interesting.  I relate active flexion/extension of the lower body, I'm assuming hips/knees/ankles,  as movements that gain edge pressure and generate round turns, any "shock absorption" is passively gained with no conscious thought needed when skiing natural terrain.

 

On video, I really want to see how you "look ahead and actively anticipate lifting the feet and more importantly actively pushing them back down".   I've got to see this, what exactly are you lifting your feet over?  The mogul face, the bottom of the zipperline?  There is NO lifting the feet over anything when skiing the technical line.  I have no idea what you are talking about.  Most skier's however lift their skis/tails and pivot over the bottom of the rut as has been discussed here at length.  Your descriptions sound as if you "think" you are skiing over the tops, when in reality, you are in the zipperline.  Lifting your feet and pushing them back down have nothing to do with executing QCT's or skiing over the tops.  You've got to put up some video to clarify this and display your skills, I'm sure everyone could learn something from the videos.

Quote:
TPJ wrote:
I think many peoples, including mine, tails lift off the snow more than they need to because the retraction move over the top of the bump is overemphasized or timed inaccurately.

I think most skiers tails come off the snow because they are hopping/lifting their feet and pivot turning at the bottom of the zipperline.

 

My tails come off the snow because I'm traveling weightlessly almost straight down the fall line during the float phase of the next turn.  Now, how does the skier regain shovel edge contact and pressure during the float phase to get the the shovel edges hooked up early in the High C?   Hint TPJ:  I'm not opening/extending my knees...like you are when "dropping down the backside".

 

Quote:
TPJ wrote:
When I say "dropping the backside, I mean actively extending the legs and moving the CM out in front as the skier completes their turn down the back of the bump.

 

I think you've got the cart in front of the horse.  You haven't even initiated the new turn and you are already completing the turn down the back of the bump?   Video???

post #101 of 132

 

Quote:
Liam wrote:
John Clendenin in his Clendenin Method website (and book) promotes a very similar approach, tactically, of skiing 'up the bump' for speed control.   He used to have a few great videos right on his website of him, one of his instructors, and Scott Brooksbank skiing up and over bumps...but now they are only available on his DVD (for $ and not free).  Anyway, his tactics were very similar (but, no offense, looked smooth as silk)--are you guys familar with Brooksbank and Clendenin's approach?

 

Quote:
CVJ wrote:
Not even close to what the QCT is. Boomers shopping for turns all over the run from this to that side not linking any turns in the fall line. The video is unorganized and does the same thing  one subject to the next like the boomers do go from one side of the run to the other side of the run.

 

LOL, I had to take a look at the site.  Let's see, I forget already what the "Keys to the Kingdom" are.  I think "cascading" was one, maybe "drifting" or possibly "sliding".  I had to X the video when I heard something about a successful double knee replacement.  I didn't hear anything about "stuffing the tips" or "backside turn".  I have to agree with CVJ, not much in common with SVMM.

 

LOL...Boomers shopping for turns all over the run...LOL...but they are having FUN in Aspen mogul skiing!

 

 

post #102 of 132

yeah...older intermediate skiing folks with money for camps are his clientele so he is working a very different side of the street than SVMM.  And, he pulled his more demonstrative videos from his site (and put them in his for profit DVD).  He's certainly not into training the next generation of bump competitors like the SVMM gang are-

 

But he used to have some good bump videos of just him and a coach showing tactics and line choices-and skiing up the bump (and turning on the top) was prominently featured....oh, well-they are not up for free anymore.  

 

 

Here is an old on of him (back when it was called the 'Aspen Method') from youtube.  It's still kind of low key as it's mostly him leading lesser skilled clients through the bumps.  But some of the skiing later in the video (though mellower and controlled) seems to use a lot more of the mogul to turn than the rut, and he certainly isn't relying on rut based deflection.

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2037274657328789579#

 

 

I should add, I realize that JC is not promoting the QCT-or anything like it in his bump method.  But that's more of a 'technique' difference.  I'm merely comparing similar bump 'tactics, which, according to the title of the thread is what we're after here.

 

and, I just watched the video of CVJ you posted in another thread that has the reverse-backwards view of his line choice.  That's an excellent demonstration of what the SVMM guys are after. 

 

 


Edited by Liam - 3/10/11 at 6:25am
post #103 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

Hey Doc, 

 <snip>

  

The key with SVMM is that transitioning broken lines is seamless, we try to maintain a cadence with our turns, we never have to wait or hesitate between turns, we certainly don't pivot our skis sideways and slide statically down to the bottom of the rut.  So if a rut is in my line, I may have to turn with it (deflect) or turn into it and I may have to link 3 or 4 zipperline turns or higher up off the shoulder before the zipperline will ends or shifts or I can climb out of it. 

 

 

      I think this description of SVMM is pretty solid.  I also suspect that presented this way, as opposed to "QCT" and "Technical line" would lead to more    discussion, and less labeling, name calling and technique bashing.  

 

      Perhaps there are two levels:  

                 This technique as applied to mogul course, races, zipperline moguls, etc. A very narrow corridor, high speed and very little directional change

 

                 And then at a (high) recreational level, irregular moguls, more allowance for both line and rhythm changes.  To me "Nail on Holiday" fits here

                 

 

post #104 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailbender View Post

 

 

1) Correct me if I'm wrong here Griz, but since you showed up on this thread and graced us all with your presence, you haven't contributed to the technical discussion at all and have really only stated biased views and opinions on techniques and tactics that you cant' match or perform and define as  "boring" because you are either uninterested or simply don't consider fun. 

 

2) The you carry on with some type of completely off topic parental or personal counseling rant on how a person should live their life and gain the respect of others???

 

3) Somehow this series of posts is supposed to grant you irrevocable respect? 

 

4) IMO, talk is cheap, as I've repeatedly been told, everyone can easily navigate the technical line, but no one can show themselves or others actually doing it.

 

5) Since you're obviously not a skill-less e-skier troll and you've mastered navigating the technical line to the point of boredom, earn some respect and post some video backing up your claims/abilities, I'm sure it would be fun and certainly not "boring".

 

6) It seems to me, the people that are afraid or unwilling to back up their statements/opinions with video are the individuals that are suffering from insecurities, inabilities and limitations.  I've got plenty of video posted, how about you?


 

 

6) The thread is called "Tactics for Bumps."  Technique is only one part of tactics.  The other is how you approach the terrain, what line you choose.  I already said how I approach bumps, so I'm not engaging in anything misleading, out of place for this thread, or anything else that is distracting.  Apparently, however, you'd like to give the contrary impression by badgering me and insinuating that you are better than me and that I'm here only to disrupt.  I'll wager that's because you want to keep Showing Off by showing us how great your son is.  Your son's video footage doesn't show a single thing about you, your approach, or your posts.  It shows only that you are living vicariously through him.  And that's lousy parenting.  But apparently it works for you, on EpicSki.  Bully bully! 

 

5) I don't need to "prove" my line selection or skill management to you or anyone.  Look at (6) above.  I already shared my approach to bumps.  Read upthread if you can't remember it.

 

4) Yes, your talk is worth about nothing... to me.  I have said several times in this thread that I prefer a GS line in the bumps.  You continue to argue that YOUR WAY IS THE ONLY WAY.  Good for you on that creative flexibility angle, eh?

 

3) I am not seeking your respect.  Why would I want that?  Respect is earned, not demanded.  I have no interest in demanding your respect.  I have no interest in anyone who thinks Sun Valley is a great place to live and ski.  Plutocratic denigration of others is your game, not mine.

 

2) Oh how rich.  More war of words, to prove Internet Expertise!  Go on, Sun Valley Hero-through-his-Son.  Go on.

 

1) You are wrong.  Consider yourself corrected.

post #105 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

Speaking about kids it's supposed to be about what's "fun" right?  Unless you're competing for judges scores, fastest time, and other things that result in REAL money what else really matters besides how much fun you're having?th_dunno-1[1].gif



Apparently, those of us who have much more fun in a GS line or some other deviation from The Sun Valley Way to Ski Bumps are just deluding ourselves and we're not really having any fun at all.

 

 

post #106 of 132

 

Quote:
Liam wrote:

I should add, I realize that JC is not promoting the QCT-or anything like it in his bump method.  But that's more of a 'technique' difference.  I'm merely comparing similar bump 'tactics, which, according to the title of the thread is what we're after here.

 

and, I just watched the video of CVJ you posted in another thread that has the reverse-backwards view of his line choice.  That's an excellent demonstration of what the SVMM guys are after

 

I think one thing everyone on the thread will agree with is that mogul skiing/natural terrain skiing is demanding and the faster you go, the more demanding it is.  The tighter the fall line you attempt to hold, the more demanding it is.

 

When JC's clients sign up for a bump clinic, I'm sure they expect to ski bumps most of the time and I'm guessing that's what they do.  From what I see in the videos, they probably tour around different mogul runs, meandering and shopping for turns, once in awhile linking a few turns down the zipperline as they try to hold a tighter fall line.  The clients are happy because they are now able to venture down runs that were previously intimidating, this is a good thing for sure, because if you never ski mogul runs your mogul skiing will never improve. 

 

The problem with this teaching technique, which I think is fairly typical, is that the skiers progression quickly stagnates.  They focusing on getting down mogul runs in one piece, when they should be focusing on learning how to ski first.  They simply haven't spent nearly enough time to develop a solid QCT on the groomed to do much else besides trace the zipperline once any speed is maintained.  They get "stuck in the rut" as they enter fall line skiing and then start regressing by utilizing intermediate techniques they are comfortable with to gain speed control and direction change, pivots, twisting, skidding, rotating the shoulders, and hopping could be examples while leaving the carving techniques they've been working on back on the groomed behind them.

 

The CVJ/SVMM video is excellent, I assume you had already watched it closely.  I really like the rear view as it is the skier's view point and it clearly shows how we turn into/through/over the mogul face and link a backside turn.  You need to have a solid QCT to do this, work on it and definitely have you friend Luke watch it.  I doubt he's ever seen skiing like that and since it's where he's already trying to go, watching it would be an eye opener I think.

post #107 of 132

 

Quote:
Griz wrote:

It's sad when someone's so insecure that he has to constantly brag on his kids on the Internet.  People's skiing speaks for itself.  There's no need to project an image on the Internet.  There's no need to show everyone "how great I am" by showing videos of "here's my kid, he's AWESOME!"

 

Quote:
Griz wrote:
I'll wager that's because you want to keep Showing Off by showing us how great your son is.  Your son's video footage doesn't show a single thing about you, your approach, or your posts.  It shows only that you are living vicariously through him.  And that's lousy parenting.  But apparently it works for you, on EpicSki.  Bully bully!

 

Griz, I think you have some serious issues.

 

What is with this repeated claim and fixation I am CONSTANTLY bragging about my kids?  I don't see it,  I just don't understand how this adds up.  I've made close to 400 posts on Epic, basically all related to the QCT or mogul skiing and I have mentioned my boys in maybe 10 posts over a couple of years and some were on threads about teaching kids how to ski.

 

Your claim that my son's video is not related and doesn't show a single thing about me, my approach or information in my posts is ludicrous.  Mogul skiing and how to do it is what the videos are about.  The boys certainly understand what SVMM is and what a pivot turn looks like.

 

Just because you can't or don't care to hold a tight fall line in natural terrain, don't hold it against the kids or me, I've got nothing to do with how you ski and could care less.  Enough with the counseling already.

post #108 of 132

Nail and CVJ,

 

Should each mogul constitute one turn-I mean what is the tactical sequence-starting with the top of one mogul to the next-is the turn transition/ direction change always on the top of the mogul, then carve your skis around, into the trough, up the next mogul looking to complete the turn and transition again on the top?

 

I get the quick carved turn, but where do you want to be through each phase of the turn relative to moguls your going over?  

 

Also, CVJ, a couple of times you mention a 'rocking chair effect'-do you mean that as we descend from the top of one mogul we should move our balance aft on our skis (so our ski tips glide more easily up the next mogul) and then quickly rock forward/ get our balance fore as we crest that mogul?  Is that the additional dimension of the qct not present in groomed runs?

 

I ask because I'd like to practice try this approach this weekend.

 

Thanks,

 

Liam

post #109 of 132

Laim seems you are starting to understand. Skier compresses when they hit the upside of the mogul for turn 1 and extends over the backside for the next turn. Using the top of the mogul as the transition to the next turn.

 

The skier is aft on the upside of the mogul and moves forward or fore when extending on the backside.

 

sounds like you are getting the concept.

 

Griz this thing about the kids is more of how easy it is if some one actually knows basic ski theory. Get of the fun factor as that is a by product of good skiing and subjective to the individual. Then the respect thing think you should go to Mogul skiing .net where they are all about fun and respect not ski tech. LOL.

 


Edited by cvj - 3/12/11 at 2:15pm
post #110 of 132

Here is the finale cut of a tip for a powerful stance and pole plant. This is where it starts if the skier can't do this on the groomed, they will never do it in the bumps. This is the turn that skiers need to ski moguls or steep expert terrain. Now think about where in the mogul field this turn would work better. It is on the back side of the mogul where there is room to make the QCT.

 

post #111 of 132

 

Quote:
CVJ wrote:
This is where it starts if the skier can't do this on the groomed, they will never do it in the bumps.

 

Nice work showcasing the "tool of choice" for challenging natural terrain, the QCT.  I agree, the best way to learn how to hold a tight fall line is to develop the skill on the groomed first and then take the turn down the black diamonds.  No magic, no tricks, just solid skiing technique that even a cave man can do, with practice. 

 

 

Quote:
CVJ wrote:
Now think about where in the mogul field this turn would work better. It is on the back side of the mogul where there is room to make the QCT.

 

Not only is there room on the "Great White Space", the backside of the mogul, to complete the turn or turns,  the snow is usually softer and smoother than groomed.  Hooking up the shovels while floating straight down a mogul field and  then feeling the pressure build as the skis come across the fall line is a sensation no expert skier should miss IMO.

 

This is what I'm talk'n about.

 

QCTBacksideTurn.jpg

 

 

post #112 of 132

Would enjoy seeing more of the QCT video series. Thanks for posting that. Been skiing a long time and somewhere along the way in the effort to carve better Up & Forward got lost. Pressure the tips and the sidecut of the ski kicks in.and chances are you are in balance too by doing this. Same as it was in the 70"s!

 

Works now too, what a discovery, for me kind of Back to the Future.

 

 

post #113 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by roundturns View Post

Would enjoy seeing more of the QCT video series. Thanks for posting that. Been skiing a long time and somewhere along the way in the effort to carve better Up & Forward got lost. Pressure the tips and the sidecut of the ski kicks in.and chances are you are in balance too by doing this. Same as it was in the 70"s!

 

Works now too, what a discovery, for me kind of Back to the Future.

 

 



Check out the video Rick put up in the "Is knee angulation bad thread"

 

That's how QCT's should be done.

 

post #114 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lars View Post


Check out the video Rick put up in the "Is knee angulation bad thread"

 

That's how QCT's should be done.

 



AMEN!  icon14.gif  beercheer.gif

 

post #115 of 132

Same thing DA look at the moves they are making. Rick's just not as quick so lets see him do that in the moguls now. Both video's show the same turn and the same moves to make those turns. Rick's transition between the turns is longer or more across the fall line. When mogul skiing skiers need to stay in the fall line more and have the skis come across the fall line faster is what it is about.

 

Just another thread that is dead. Internet skiing is nuts 25 inches of pow see yea. SKI TIME SKI TIME I'll be the one covered in snow because my skis will be in the deep stuff not on top with my powder skis.

 


Edited by cvj - 3/21/11 at 6:39am
post #116 of 132

 

Quote:
Lars wrote:
Check out the video Rick put up in the "Is knee angulation bad thread"

 

That's how QCT's should be done.

 

No Lars, that's not how a QCT is done.  The skier's in Ricks videos don't hold a tight enough fall line as their bodies follow the skis back and forth  across it.  The skiing is very good and I really like the turns and yes they definitely generate angulation, they simply don't generate enough angulation quick enough to stay in the fall line.

 

Quote:
CVJ wrote:
When mogul skiing skiers need to stay in the fall line more and have the skis come across the fall line faster is what it is about.

 

Exactly CVJ, it's all about maintaining/holding a tight fall line by managing the pressures developed by generating angulation as the skis quickly return across the fall line.  The turns in Rick's video are typical short turns, the radius is to big and the arc length is to long to be used consistently in natural terrain.  There simply isn't enough room on the "Great White Space" to complete these turns down the technical line, they are to big.

 

DynamicShortTurn.jpg

 

 

Quote:
CVJ wrote:
Just another thread that is dead. Internet skiing is nuts 25 inches of pow see yea. SKI TIME SKI TIME I'll be the one covered in snow because my skis will be in the deep stuff not on top with my powder skis.

 

OMG!  Face shots, chest shots,  the South slopes didn't get skied yesterday and it's still dumping. yahoo.gif

 

Won't be stuffing the tips into piles today, they'll be more like hay bales, not the little rectangle ones either, more like the the HUGE round ones seen laying stacked next to the highway.  Forget the yellow line today, there won't be many backside turns, the RED LINE will rule and I may even skip a few moguls before stuffing the tips just to PEG the fun/speed meter.  Boofing....


Edited by Nailbender - 3/21/11 at 7:51am
post #117 of 132

Nail, I think you are absolutely correct.  The turns you need to make in order to ski the fall line quickly need to be shorter and quicker and more speed controlling.  I don't think anyone has or would disagree with you.  The issue is more about what you are calling them.  Your QCT's are not carved. Period.

Are they turns that require high edge angles, more angulation, etc. etc.  Certainly!  Are they turns you should have in your tool kit for going into moguls?  Certainly helps for sure!  Are they good skiing?  Given the intent, terrain and conditions - certainly!

Again, I don't think anyone is saying you don't have some good stuff going on out there.

It was interesting to see the video CVJ posted.  It had portions of the video you posted plus some extra footage.  What was interesting is that his video showed the least "carved" turns from your video! 

Without getting into the what is a carved turn debate (two thin lines in the snow), Ricks video depicts IMhO, carved turns (some better than others).

For me, they are also turns that I could not successfully do in a mogul field - I'd die quickly from going too fast.  Your turns allow me to survive.

post #118 of 132

Yes, the QCTs are not carved according to the classic late 90s definition where it refers to skiing on edge along the edges edge locked of a new shaped ski. The C in the QCT refers to evenly shaped, edge engaged, speed controlling turns of among others the SVMM guys. And yes, its important to undersand that you need to stay in the fall line. But that is not QCT exclusive. That is bump skiing exclusive. In praxis that is smile.gif.

post #119 of 132

 

Snowhawk they are carved if you look at the tracks made you would see your 2 lines in the snow. However there is a float phase were the skis feather into the carve. The 90's definition of carved has ruined a lot of good skiing. As on the powder day a lot of shitty tracks in the snow mostly traversed marks ski the fall line as powder skiing is like mogul skiing.

 

Float and sting or be heavy to turn and light in between turns. Today's skiers have no or little float.

post #120 of 132
Quote:
Originally Posted by cvj View Post

 

Snowhawk they are carved if you look at the tracks made you would see your 2 lines in the snow. However there is a float phase were the skis feather into the carve. The 90's definition of carved has ruined a lot of good skiing. As on the powder day a lot of shitty tracks in the snow mostly traversed marks ski the fall line as powder skiing is like mogul skiing.

 

Float and sting or be heavy to turn and light in between turns. Today's skiers have no or little float.



I don't think that's a true statement Joe.

 

There are many skiers who have been skiing bumps for many, many years as well as skiing in general who float like a butterfly, and sting like a bee.

 

They are just a rare breed, old school mostly. Kinda like you and me.

 

And, I don't care what kind of tracks I leave behind. It's the feeling I have at the time i'm making tracks that really counts. That's all it's ever been about.

 

How bout you?

 

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