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Problems Atomic bindings (Neox 12)

post #1 of 22
Thread Starter 

One

 

_DSC1507.jpg

 

Two

 

_DSC1508.jpg

 

Oops. What happened here?

 

_DSC1509.jpg

 

The setting is DIN 11.5

Had them checked by an Atomic specialist shop, that verified they were correct set up. The Atomic rep I spoke to on the phone last year said he doesn't care for such an old binding.

post #2 of 22



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post

 The Atomic rep I spoke to on the phone last year said he doesn't care for such an old binding.



 confused.gif

post #3 of 22

Carl,

You have to accept the performance limits of all your ski material!

 

First

You must check not only DIN scale setting ( 11.5 ????? ) but also rear tension setting screw!

 

Second

There are some "moves" which will cause any binding to release! Any hard knocks, with rocks, boots, other skis will release bindings!

 

Respectfully,

VIST

post #4 of 22
Thread Starter 

@Vistman Of course the preload is correct set. I was even to a atomic specialist shop last year to verify I had adjusted them correctly.

Yes hard knocks, but they shouldn't be able to just pull away from the feet like in the third image? DIN max setting is 12, the binding are on 11.5.

 

@NE1 I don't understand...

 

post #5 of 22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl R View Post

 

@NE1 I don't understand...

 



 I would't consider Neox models to be so old they would be under-functioning.

post #6 of 22
Thread Starter 

@NE1 Totally agree..

 

 

Here's another picture. I'm a bit dissapointed in their performance.

 

_DSC1510.jpg

post #7 of 22

Things to consider...

Condition of the boots. They are old (15 years?). Are they worn beyond standards set by DIN?

Snow under boot when stepped in to the binding at that incident? Any build-up over 2mm over DIN norm can result in a ski release.

 

Is this a regular occurence, or a one time thing? I haven't had an issue with Neox bindings and have pushed them far.

 

post #8 of 22
Thread Starter 

Boots in very good conditons. Old as dirt yes, but I haven't found any that could replace them. No snow under, it was a very cold day.

Yes, they release as they please. I just need to kick down the heel and they release.

They do hold when I run SL gates with the skis and when I'm just out arcing, but it's annoying when I do a random jump because if I'm ever so slightly unbalanced when I land I have only one ski left on my feet.

post #9 of 22
Thread Starter 

Btw, I dont have any problems with any of my other bindings including ESS 1018, Rossignol 120 Race, Elan ER 17.0 and Marker Titanium 1200.

post #10 of 22

Check the boots in the skis to see if the heel hold down is solid.

Sometimes the 614's don't hold the heel firmly if the boot is on the low end of the DIN spec and worn.

The problem with these heels is the boot sole only contacts two narrow areas of the brake assembly and a bit of wear here can be a problem.

http://www.epicski.com/forum/thread/92981/atomic-614-binding-problem

post #11 of 22

I'd like to see some pictures of the boot in the binding. Need some close-ups of the toe and heel from front, top and side. Also need a pic of the center connection.

 

Dakine, did you ever figure out your issue? because I know exactly what the problem is.

post #12 of 22

  Another thing is the torque when doing a grab. Maybe you should swap them out for the 6/14? I have mine set at 12 and have never had a pre release in 3 years grabbing and stomping. That would freak me out for sure if I had that problem. Very dangerous!!! 

 

 BTW how was your landing after that?eek.gif

post #13 of 22

Betaracer,

 

The issue was twofold.

First, when I took the pics I had the bindings slid back to the "speed" position which makes it look like there is an abnormal gap between the brake assembly and the heel.

We all forgot that these things can be moved fore and aft but the brake doesn't move.

Second, my boots are canted, plated and shaved.

Even though the heel is within DIN specs, I could never get a solid hold down..

The area the heel contacts the binding on the 614's is  a small strip of soft plastic on either side of the boot area.

I shimmed this area up about 1mm and all is well without the heel rest I made.

I'm still using the heel rest though because it gives such a positive holddown.

 

I've gone through all of my skis to make sure the binding is holding the boot without allowing it to rock side to side.

I have some Volkls with the Marker integrated track assembly.

The track assembly is pretty sloppy allowing the boot cuff to move about 1 cm side to side with the ski clamped down.

A couple of long screws through the heel assy and into the ski fixed that at the expense of easy adjustability.

 

I just got a pair of Fischers with the Tyrolia Flowflex system.

These seem pretty good out of the box.

These have a fairly large u shaped contact area that the boot heel rests on and clamp well.

 

I wouldn't worry about this stuff on my daily drivers but I'm critical about race stuff.

 

Some binding systems have gotten to easy adjustability at the expense of boot/ski rigidity.

One of my large friends tore the plastic heel track right off an Marker/AC-50 and seriously broke an ankle.

Now I know why real racers buy flat skis and use aftermarket stuff like VIST.

post #14 of 22

Dakine,

 

The whole situation arises from the fact that you have an adult male sized boot on a junior/women's setup. The women's/junior plate was made to allow a smaller boot to have all the fore/aft movement the VAR system allows. Before the shorter plate, this was not possible. One thing that was not changed was the boot sole range markings on the plate. The numbers written on what you have are wrong. with upper limits of 295mm in the middle holes. Even though there are bootsole mid markings on the plate, it is based on a 304mm boot sole length (size 26 Mondo) for the adult male plate. Atomic race skis are typically setup using the toe line, hence the single mounting location on the newer models and offer a range of 294-314mm. Anything larger or smaller will require using the VAR to either slide the binding forward or rearward to get the proper position for optiaml ski performance. The women's/junior setup is based on the same principal, only using a 20mm smaller sole (size 24 Mondo) as the starting point. In order to make use of the skis properly, the longer plate should be used.

 

 

There is another thread somewhere here with the same situation, maybe in the tuning section.

post #15 of 22

That makes sense, thanks.

Mismarked plates!

They are womens skis.

The hold down problem is still a bit of a mystery.

My boots do meet the DIN spec so...?

The bindings are now set in the next to foremost VAR position and the skis work great.

Ignorance can be bliss.

 

Sorry for the thread hijack.

post #16 of 22
Thread Starter 

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by whipper View Post

  Another thing is the torque when doing a grab. Maybe you should swap them out for the 6/14? I have mine set at 12 and have never had a pre release in 3 years grabbing and stomping. That would freak me out for sure if I had that problem. Very dangerous!!! 

 

 BTW how was your landing after that?eek.gif


The landing was no problem. I landed on boot and ski with the loose ski in between.

Thanks for asking. :)

 

Since I don't trust theese bindings I never jump especially high with them.

post #17 of 22

 

Is anyone else thinking that the vertical toe height is off?

post #18 of 22
Thread Starter 

Here's some pictures. I don't know if they are good enough to see if there's any problem.

 

Toepieces with boot.

DSCF4583.JPG

 

Heelpieces with boot

DSCF4585.JPG

Boot fronts

DSCF4587.JPG

Binding

DSCF4588.JPG

 

Let me know if another angle would be better.

post #19 of 22

A shot from behind so the forward pressure screw is visible with the boot in the binding. It seems that if you can pull the ski off in the air, it should be able to release sitting on the floor too.

post #20 of 22
Thread Starter 

Here's the requested images:

 

:DSCF4592.JPGDSCF4591.JPGDSCF4593.JPG

 

I'm currently uploading a video demoing the problem but it seems to take a while, so I'll add the link when I'm back from the slopes.

post #21 of 22
Thread Starter 

Here's a video so you can see what's happening.

I'm sorry about the hand being in the way of the rear adjustment screw but now you have photos of it above.

 


Edited by Carl R - 3/7/11 at 2:36pm
post #22 of 22

Looking at the pictures, you should have a little more forward pressure. The screw should be flush to the inner surface, or 1.5mm further in than where it is now. If you still have issues, have the bindings tested for release to confirm the 11.5 DIN setting is actually 11.5. If the numbers do not relate, then see if the bindings can be warrantied. If they are, you might need a higher DIN range.

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