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Rocker demos: Some rocker works - and what doesn't - Page 2

post #31 of 38
Quote:

Originally Posted by karpiel View Post

 

I ski a JJ every day.


I guess if you don't have anything else to ski on, it beats not skiing at all. But I can think of many many different skis I'd rather be on for those days. Depending on the condition of the upper bowl terrain, its one of 724 Pros, old-school Gotamas (upper bowls choppy/beat with bad coverage) or im103s (upper bowls choppy/beat with good-enough coverage).

 

The 724 Pros (bases/edges beat to sh* by early-season Breck carnage) are being replaced this year by probably something like MX78s, Blizz Supersonics or Fischer Progressor 10s. Need to get out and demo to find exactly what I'm looking for, though. Basically a narrow frontside cross between high-speed GS carver and mogul ski.

post #32 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post


I guess if you don't have anything else to ski on, it beats not skiing at all. But I can think of many many different skis I'd rather be on for those days. Depending on the condition of the upper bowl terrain, its one of 724 Pros, old-school Gotamas (upper bowls choppy/beat with bad coverage) or im103s (upper bowls choppy/beat with good-enough coverage).

 

The 724 Pros (bases/edges beat to sh* by early-season Breck carnage) are being replaced this year by probably something like MX78s, Blizz Supersonics or Fischer Progressor 10s. Need to get out and demo to find exactly what I'm looking for, though. Basically a narrow frontside cross between high-speed GS carver and mogul ski.

 

I don't really want to start a discussion about what makes an everyday ski vs what doesn't, BUT, I have a pair of 177 724 Pros, 183 Mantras, and yet I still reach for my Katanas every day now.  I prefer the Katanas in steeps, crud and bumps.  Yes BUMPS.  The slarvy, smeary turns the Katanas pump out are easier in bumps and steeps than the more carvy Pros and Mantras.  

 

I don't think its at all outlandish that someone skis the JJ everyday.  At Snowbird virtually all the good skiers are on their wide, long skis everyday, and despite what marketing may have led you to believe, it isn't a powder day everyday at the Bird (I wish).  

 

It was probably about 2002 on this very site I remember arguing that the Volkl G41 with its 83mm waist was a fantastic every day ski and could do it all - and I remember getting told I was a complete idiot for skiing something that wide everyday :)
 

post #33 of 38

I went from a primarily narrow ski eastern skier, to a 184 Mantra as an everyday ski, east and west, now to a Rossi S3 in a 186.  Again, works where I want them too.  even with the rocker it can rip groomed slopes, but it is silly fun in trees, medium bumps, and can even let a gravity challenged fool like me land airs,  Most fun of m all my skis in mixed or variable conditions.

post #34 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post


I guess if you don't have anything else to ski on, it beats not skiing at all. But I can think of many many different skis I'd rather be on for those days. Depending on the condition of the upper bowl terrain, its one of 724 Pros, old-school Gotamas (upper bowls choppy/beat with bad coverage) or im103s (upper bowls choppy/beat with good-enough coverage).

 

The 724 Pros (bases/edges beat to sh* by early-season Breck carnage) are being replaced this year by probably something like MX78s, Blizz Supersonics or Fischer Progressor 10s. Need to get out and demo to find exactly what I'm looking for, though. Basically a narrow frontside cross between high-speed GS carver and mogul ski.

If you want a cross between a GS Carver and a Mogul ski I would strongly suggest the Fischer Motive 84. Of course I do not know just how fast you ski, but it is great in bumps and holds really well on hard snow out here in the east. I can't imagine needing anything narrower out west even when there has been no new snow in a while. I have found it to be very stable.
 

post #35 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Matter View Post

I don't really want to start a discussion about what makes an everyday ski vs what doesn't, BUT, I have a pair of 177 724 Pros, 183 Mantras, and yet I still reach for my Katanas every day now.  I prefer the Katanas in steeps, crud and bumps.

 

Matter, I don't think we're in disagreement. In your quiver, I'd also prefer the Katanas in steeps and crud. At ABasin/Breck/Loveland, where there aren't tons of tree stashes (for my BGs), I'm on the steeps and crud wearing my im103s or El Dictators (depends on if I want tip rocker for the day) in seek-and-destroy mode.

 

I bring the 724 Pros out when steeps and crud are just a refrozen mess, when the most fun runs are hardpack and bumps. In these conditions, something that is quicker edge-to-edge, with a narrow waist that can slither (zipper) through the hard bumps, and creates less torque on your ankles at high edge angles is a lot more fun. In these conditions, I'd much rather be on the 724 Pros than the Katanas, and, to a lesser extent, I'd much rather be on Katanas than JJs/S7s/BGs.

 

I see the 5-point sidecut skis as highly-maneuverable powder skis that don't have the drawbacks of R/R on traverses, chop, runouts and cat-tracks. They're not really a good everyday ski, nor are they really designed with that in mind (as you found out). In my opinion, they're a replacement for the R/R ski, for people that don't like the drawbacks of an R/R ski. For some ski areas, or skiing styles, the 5-point sidecut ski doesn't make sense, since you don't need/want the extra maneuverability.

 

Quiver expansion, for people living out west, should probably be:

Everyday wide/subtle rocker ski -> powder specialty ski (i.e. 5-point sidecut ski) -> hard snow carver and/or bump ski

 

This is essentially my quiver, but with the 'everyday wide ski' split into two skis: 183 im103s and 194 El Dictators, which I choose depending on soft snow depth (%chance of tip auger). I also have 183 old-school Gotamas, but those are powder rock skis for early/late season.

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by allan o'neil View Post

If you want a cross between a GS Carver and a Mogul ski I would strongly suggest the Fischer Motive 84. Of course I do not know just how fast you ski, but it is great in bumps and holds really well on hard snow out here in the east. I can't imagine needing anything narrower out west even when there has been no new snow in a while. I have found it to be very stable.


Thanks for your suggestion. I did look at that one (which lead me to the Progressor 10+), but I figured something a bit narrower and stiffer would probably hold up a bit better to my style of skiing on hardpack/bump days.

post #36 of 38
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post

 

 

I bring the 724 Pros out when steeps and crud are just a refrozen mess, when the most fun runs are hardpack and bumps. In these conditions, something that is quicker edge-to-edge, with a narrow waist that can slither (zipper) through the hard bumps, and creates less torque on your ankles at high edge angles is a lot more fun. In these conditions, I'd much rather be on the 724 Pros than the Katanas, and, to a lesser extent, I'd much rather be on Katanas than JJs/S7s/BGs.

 

I see the 5-point sidecut skis as highly-maneuverable powder skis that don't have the drawbacks of R/R on traverses, chop, runouts and cat-tracks. They're not really a good everyday ski, nor are they really designed with that in mind (as you found out). In my opinion, they're a replacement for the R/R ski, for people that don't like the drawbacks of an R/R ski. For some ski areas, or skiing styles, the 5-point sidecut ski doesn't make sense, since you don't need/want the extra maneuverability.

 

 


Well, I don't like the feel of the 724 Pros in bumps or steeps anymore.  I don't like how they release from turn to turn - all the newer skis are just easier and more forgiving in that department. 

 

For how I ski now, I would really take the S3 or Bridge over just about any traditional all mountain mid fat for an everyday western ski.  They're fine on hardpack for me and I like how these rockered designs feel in 3D terrain.  I've seen some people say these wider rockered skis are too much work on groomers.  Well, I feel like the groomer skis are too much work elsewhere around the mountain.  I'm less tired on my Katanas skiing bumps than I am on my Mantras or Pros. 

 

Rocker started as an aid for skiing powder and to a lesser extent crud.  However, I've realized it has some very interesting advantages for bumps and steeps too.  The "smear" turn or whatever you want to call it is basically indispensable in these conditions and having a ski that can do them on command is just a hell of a lot easier.  That's why I think most skiers will be on something like the Rossi S3 in the next few years.  It's plenty good on groomers for 98% of skiers and it will let all these average skiers get around more of the mountain.  

 

post #37 of 38

Yeah, sounds like we ski steeps/bumps differently.

 

On hard snow days, when open crud fields are frozen, I'm skiing steep groomers in large SG turns and skiing bumps ala zipperline, rather than smearing my way down the mountain. On soft snow days, I'm usually in tree stashes or the sidecountry with my BGs, save for a few days/runs on the normal slopes, when I'll be blasting through steep chop/crud in the same SG-style turns and launching over any bumps, as necessary (avoiding slopes with large moguls where you can't really do this without injury/crashing). This is pretty tiring, though, you're right. I can only do about 2-3 runs like this in a row, before I go back to stashes or groomers for a replenishing run or two.

 

Also, I just want to make sure you're not calling the S3 or the Bridge a 5-point sidecut ski. 5-point sidecut ski has 5 points instead of 3-points to their sidecut: noticable tip and tail taper as well as the sidecut underfoot. I would also call S3s and Bridges more of an everyday rocker ski for more relaxed skiing (whereas, I tend to be more aggressive/freeride, so the im103s suit me better).

post #38 of 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Lindahl View Post


I guess if you don't have anything else to ski on, it beats not skiing at all.

 

It sure does, my next pair will be head mojo 103's (37m turn radius, flat tail, camber)
 

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