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skidding

post #1 of 12
Thread Starter 

 

 

I am a new member, I tried using "skidmarks" as my online name but it's taken.  I'm trying to learn edging and I'm experiencing washing out,(SKIDDING) I don't know if I'm forcing the tails, and not being patient enough threw the turn, or if my weight is too far forward,  I can't seem to bend the shovels and arc the turns, I just skid thru the turns, everything I'm trying is not working. My skis washout more on steeper runs. Any input would be appreciated. 

post #2 of 12

You don't want to bend the shovels, you want to bend the whole ski from the center (or from where your feet are),  so if you are trying to pressure just the fronts as you edge the skis, you will be making the tails skid.

 

Go to some gentle terrain, stand so you can feel the entire length of the bottoms of your feet equally, keep your ankles slightly flexed so your shins are contacting the cuffs of the boots, flex slightly at the waist (without sticking out your backside) and gradually--g r a d u a l l y--increase edging of both skis as you move down the hill.  Do not twist, do not stomp onto the outside foot, but gradually roll the feet onto one set of edges and then back to the other set as you move down the slope.

post #3 of 12

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kneale Brownson View Post

You don't want to bend the shovels, you want to bend the whole ski from the center (or from where your feet are),  so if you are trying to pressure just the fronts as you edge the skis, you will be making the tails skid.

 

Go to some gentle terrain, stand so you can feel the entire length of the bottoms of your feet equally, keep your ankles slightly flexed so your shins are contacting the cuffs of the boots, flex slightly at the waist (without sticking out your backside) and gradually--g r a d u a l l y--increase edging of both skis as you move down the hill.  Do not twist, do not stomp onto the outside foot, but gradually roll the feet onto one set of edges and then back to the other set as you move down the slope.

 

...and by "set of edges," Kneale means either your right edges or left. Both skis on their right edges (to arc right) or both skis on the left edges (to arc left). Gentle, gentle, gentle. On terrain you could comfortably straight-run to the bottom. Don't try to turn. Just tip slightly, gently, ever so little. Try to go as straight as you can down the hill by only tipping. Don't even think about turning. El perfecto!

post #4 of 12

Try traversing across a run and just tipping your boots into the hill. If you are leaving pencil thin tracks in the snow, you are carving. If your tracks are any thicker than that, you are helping the skis turn uphill by turning your feet. Don't do that.

 

Once you can do that, try traversing on steeper line and carve faster across the hill. You will need to counter (face the hips and shoulder more down the hill) and angulate (lean the lower body into the hill while the upper body - above the waist - remains more upright) in order to stay in balance and stay in the carve. 

 

Once you can do that, you can start working on linking the carved traverses together. If you can finish a carved traverse slightly uphill, it's much easier to just roll the skis from one set of edges to the other to start the next turn.

 

Once you can do that, you can start finishing your turns more in the fall line.

 

Once you can do that, you are carving.

post #5 of 12

Some very experienced pros have already chimed in DD. Notice any common themes? IMO, the best of this advice involves a more balanced stance because it allows you to access tipping skills with much less effort. Thus making all of the suggested drills easier. Good stuff guys!

 

So how do you acheive a better stance? There's a lot of options but I like to start at a very basic level. Go to the beginner corral and try sidestepping up the hill and sideslipping right back down the hill. Try standing as tall as possible as you sidestep directly up the hill. Then slip directly down the exact same path you just created. I think you will discover a more centered stance will facilitate a much higher degree of accuracy in your movements and your new level of awareness will serve you well for the rest of your skiing career.

 

Rusty's drill is a great follow up to this and I'm confident you will find it much easier to leave behind whatever width track you choose.

 

Finally, the RRX drill Neal suggests allows you to apply these new skills in a drill that more closely resembles ski turns. When you can do that drill consistently well, continue to explore how far you hang onto the turns and before long you will be doing round arc to arc turns with no tail washing.

 

JASP

 

post #6 of 12

Many times skiers rotate their hips causing tails to skid.  Check your stance in that traverse and make sure your hips are on the same plane as your tips! and your nose is over your downhill toes!

post #7 of 12

Interesting observaton Bud. I am an intermediate and just skied with your friend jr4ster. I notice while i am following his suggestions, pretty subtle ones actually, i still have this situation on my "stronger" leg, i.e. right leg, so in left turns : I find as I flex, and weight is pretty genuinely on downhill leg, and as skis cross the fall line, the tail slides out, I have noticed with the flexing of the ankles, my toes on my downhill leg, i.e. right leg were coming "up" as the shin-to-boot-tongue was emphasized, am practising softening that, but your comment about "hip rotation", well, I think I am pretty strongly over my downhill ski, but I try to aim my upper body at the very least into the middle of next turn, and that is from the hip and above, so am wondering now if somehow that is adding to the "heel sliding out" issue, just wondering.

post #8 of 12

What comments did Jim give you?  I would trust he, being able to see you, would have a better handle on what is going on!  

 

Are your ski boots snug or can your forefoot move up and down?  Have you checked your dorsiflexion range and adjusted ramp and forward lean accordingly?  Have you checked your lateral canting?  Do you have equal range of motion in your hip rotators (ab and adduction)?  Just a few things to look at.

post #9 of 12

Awesome tips!

post #10 of 12

Jim suggested two subtle moves which I am incorporating into my skiing, less pushing forward and down on big toe of downhill leg, more gentle pressuring and pushing on entire side of foot, progressive vs aggressive, and also subtle pull-back of foot that is becoming lighter (i.e. old downhill leg) as transition to new downhill leg begins; seems to work, better edge control i found but the strong leg heel slideout, so tails kind of skid out does happen so am consciously trying to keep toes down, when flexing forward.

 

Your remark about hip rotation caught my eye, since I try pretty hard to make sure I am facing downhill, or at the very least middle of next turn at each point of turn..that requires swivelling upper body to face the danger so to speak..

 

the other items about boots, well, i have serious "leg" issues, bowed like a lifetime jockey frown.gif , and boot is at full cant (upper cuff adjustment) and have fillers on both insides of shins to push foot out further, at least 3/4" on right side and 1.5" on left side, have custom sole (surefoot though from 2009) and because of tendency to walk on outer edges of feet, also have lifters under sheath, so foot inclined inward. All these have definitely helped, with advice from instructor at Alta last year and bootfitter types thereafter there and in DV; and in SB, one of Jim's pals actually suggested tape on left outer edge on binding, experimenting with that now. This I'll say, funnily, Jim's progressive subtle move suggestions seem to go off now much nicer and smoother on weaker left leg.

 

Anyway, thanks, some of the foot technical jargon, am not that familiar but I think I understand ski technique quite well, just quite a ways from executing well !

post #11 of 12

DD, you've gotten some very good tips here.

 

I'd like to add one that is more a focus or philosophy than a movement or drill, because the drills you've been given will get you there.

 

H'yar 'tis:

 

Do less.

 

Stand centered on your feet almost as if you're standing in your street shoes. Feel your whole foot on the foot bed. Let your ankles and knees flex, to be sure, but still feel the whole bottom of your foot planted firmly (by your weight, not by pushing on it) in the footbed. Allow the skis to work, don't force them to do anything. This is central to what Kneale and Steve are telling you.

 

Stand on them. Don't push them, don't twist them, don't lean up the hill (and away from your skis), don't step from one ski to the other.

 

This is harder than it sounds. The survival part of your brain is saying, "Hey, we've got these big long sticks on our feet and these big clunky boots. We have to do stuff!" And most skiers do. They twist and lean and push, and they work pretty hard.

 

This, then, is the caveat to what you've been told so far. The drills will do the trick if you stand over your feet and allow rather than force. Even the sideslip is nearly effortless if you just stand on your skis and flatten them enough, rather than attempting to push them down the hill. And, if you are accurately balanced while not trying to force the skis' behavior, the tail washout will go away, and you'll be left with either a pure carve or just the amount of skid you want.

post #12 of 12
Thread Starter 

Thanks everyone for taking the time to post advice, I've been working on rolling the knees inward and trying to keep any rotary movement of my feet out of the turns, while keeping weight on the downhill ski,  I've had some success, but I guess this is an evolutionary skill and it will take some time to be better than Body Miller.

 

Again thanks,

 

DD

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