Why buy a rockered ski? No reason to

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

So, I found out today what a rockered ski is, I had to search online and came up with the 'rockered ski guide'

 

It said this 

"Why is rocker so awesome? What does it do for you?

- Rocker offers increased float in the powder! – With rocker, your tips will float up in powder and crud.  The feel is smooth and just like when you surf, wakeboard or waterski, rocker helps you to stay on top of the snow.  On skis, no need to do all that ridiculous bouncing and leaning back to keep your tips up in the powder. On a snowboard, your tip sits up higher out of the snow so you can avoid those face plants over your nose."

 

If you're trying to sell a new ski, please try and know what the hell you're talking about. You should not be 'leaning back' no matter what sort of ski you are on. I don't ski on top of powder, I like to get deep in it, I want it spraying over my head. The people who wrote the above comment obviously don't know how to ski powder on normal skis as they indicate that they lean back to keep their tips up.

 

I understand how shaped skis have changed skiing, but there comes a point at which a certain amount of skill needs to be attained to explore the mountain more without changing the equipment. Rockered skis have gone too far.

 

I've never seen a rockered ski in europe, and my skiing friends both here and back in NZ have never heard of them before either. Maybe this design does help in powder, espeically if it keeps your tips up while being incorrectly balanced. But then you're not going to progress in your skiing as this lazy ass way of skiing powder looks like it lets your get away with bad technique or lack of skills.

 

Disgusting.

your sir are discounting something with out trying it. Rockered skis actually let you ski more FORWARD in powder than non rockered skis and simply put you can not skis tight soft snow places as well on non rockered skis as you can on rockered skis.

alot of the lines in this video would not be possible at the speeds they are at with out a rockered fat ski.

why dont you try something before you sit their and discount it and say its 'disgusting"

Ok, I'll try my best not to sound rude here.

First, based on your other posts, I am guessing you ski in smaller resorts in western Switzerland. So, I get the impression that you might be a bit disconnected from the rest of the skiing world. (Maybe I'm wrong, but that's the impression I get.)

When I first went to Verbier 4 years ago, I saw a significant number of people on fat boards on their way up to Mont Fort. I'm willing to bet at least a few of them have since switched to skis with at least a bit of rocker. (In fact, I bet you could easily find pictures of people skiing Mont Fort on rockered skis over on the TGR forums.)

Two years ago in the Monterosa area, I had an off-piste guide who was riding a pair of K2 Coombas, which had the early-rise (mini-rocker) tips.

A month ago in St. Anton, I saw four guys up close with rockered or early-rise skis (Atomice Bent Chetlers, Line SFB, K2 Kung Fujas and Obsethed) in one day, and I think I spotted a pair of Hellbents on a guy some distance away, but I'm not completely certain.

So, although you haven't seen them where you ski, there are people in Europe who are riding rockers.

Secondly, I'm sure you enjoy doing slow, repetitive, symmetrical powder turns with your skis sinking to the bottom like everyone else who skis off-piste on carvers, but there are some people who find that a bit boring. Some of us enjoy a wider and/or rockered ski that gives us more options ("surfy" turns, backwards turns, easy cruising on flatter/run-out sections without getting bogged down, etc.). Although we have the ability to do repetitive, symmetrical turns on narrow skis, we find the additional options to be more fun.

I learned to ski powder in tight trees on straight skis. I've also skied powder on a pair of stiff, chin-high carvers. Now anytime I think I can find some decent snow, I ride a 115-mm non-rockered twintip with early taper tips and symmetric flex. I could still ski powder on an old-school pair of straight skis if I had to, but I guarantee you it wouldn't be as much fun.

It's the same as if you asked a surfer if he'd rather be in the water than riding on top of it. Don't knock it until you've tried it.

Never seen one in Europe?  Even Stockli has now entered the 21st century (2011-2012).  Seriously, most skiers who hit the slopes only 10 days a year don't "need" a rockered ski since it is statistically unlikely that they will be in anything but a few inches of powder.  But rockers do have a big advantage in deeper powder and the most cruddy snow, and with some rockered skis there isn't too much of a disadvantage (some think almost not at all) in anything else. Surely the industry will go too far--and perhaps already has-- with rocker and then the pendulum will swing back.  But that is also true of what happened with technological advances with golf equipment (bigger iron heads vs. blades; light iron shafts vs. heavier shafts for feel, etc.), bike equipment, etc.  Eventually a middle ground is found for most users of the equipment, and the niche-specific equipment is still there for those who desire it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

Oh, and as for skiing smaller resorts, verbier and portes du soleil are my main stomping grounds, so they're not too small.

Sorry, from other threads I got the impression you only skied some of the smaller places in CH.

Still, I find it hard to believe you haven't seen anyone in Verbier or elsewhere on rockered skis. I've seen them in just about every place I've been in Europe in the last 4 years: Espace Killy (both times), Monterosa, St. Anton (both times), and I saw them in a shop or two in Verbier, though I didn't see anyone on a pair while I was there. The only place I didn't see them was in Arosa.

Perhaps you saw them from distance and didn't realize it, not having spotted the rocker or recognized the graphics. Some of the ones I spotted were based purely on recognizing the top sheets from distance.

As for the point of your original post, I get it: you don't need rocker to ski powder. Then again, you could also say you don't need a sports car to go for a drive, you don't need suspension on a mountain bike to make it down the hill, and you don't need fins for scuba diving. But, these things add enjoyment for some people; that's the point. We're not out there as part of some contest to prove who's the best skier; we're out there to have fun.

Besides, if we were really hard core, we'd all be skiing off-piste on snowblades. And before you laugh, let me just say that I honestly saw a guy in St. Anton last month doing exactly that. That takes skill (and balls).

Again, before you go slagging them off, why don't you give them a try? You don't have to go completely overboard with superfat, reverse-sidecut, reverse-camber skis. Try something like the Line Blend (100 mm), K2 Kung Fujas (102 mm), Atomic Access (100 mm) or anything else with a reasonable width and a bit of rocker. Maybe even try the Nordica The Zero, just for a bit of freestyle fun.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

So, I found out today what a rockered ski is, I had to search online and came up with the 'rockered ski guide'

 

It said this 

"Why is rocker so awesome? What does it do for you?

- Rocker offers increased float in the powder! – With rocker, your tips will float up in powder and crud.  The feel is smooth and just like when you surf, wakeboard or waterski, rocker helps you to stay on top of the snow.  On skis, no need to do all that ridiculous bouncing and leaning back to keep your tips up in the powder. On a snowboard, your tip sits up higher out of the snow so you can avoid those face plants over your nose."

 

If you're trying to sell a new ski, please try and know what the hell you're talking about. You should not be 'leaning back' no matter what sort of ski you are on. I don't ski on top of powder, I like to get deep in it, I want it spraying over my head. The people who wrote the above comment obviously don't know how to ski powder on normal skis as they indicate that they lean back to keep their tips up.

 

I understand how shaped skis have changed skiing, but there comes a point at which a certain amount of skill needs to be attained to explore the mountain more without changing the equipment. Rockered skis have gone too far.

 

I've never seen a rockered ski in europe, and my skiing friends both here and back in NZ have never heard of them before either. Maybe this design does help in powder, espeically if it keeps your tips up while being incorrectly balanced. But then you're not going to progress in your skiing as this lazy ass way of skiing powder looks like it lets your get away with bad technique or lack of skills.

 

Disgusting.

Your welcome to your opinions. And many of the other retrogrouch luddites on this particular forum will agree with you. They are living in the stone ages too.

FWIW I see more and more older generation skiers on fat rockered pow boards every day ripping it up with a big smile on their face.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

I've never even heard of rockered skis until reading on this website. I've spoken to some friends who still teach and they didn't know either.

Oh, and it's not a competition, I know they may increase enjoyment, but at what point do you say enough is enough. From the advert I read, these skis are great for people with bad habits. I bet the guy skiing in that clip could ski that line just as well on a regular shaped ski.

I can't watch the video because it's blocked on my work PC, so I can't comment.

You know enough is enough when you go further and get nothing from it. If no one buys them, then you've gone too far.

So far, the people I've seen on rockered skis seemed to have been enjoying them, and I'm seeing more and more as time goes on. I also get asked more and more frequently about my skis. So, I guess we haven't reached that point yet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

I've never even heard of rockered skis until reading on this website. I've spoken to some friends who still teach and they didn't know either.

Oh, and it's not a competition, I know they may increase enjoyment, but at what point do you say enough is enough. From the advert I read, these skis are great for people with bad habits. I bet the guy skiing in that clip could ski that line just as well on a regular shaped ski.

First of all I have a hard time believing that you have never heard of rockered  skis until today. Sorry, just not buying that you haven't heard of them or seen rockered skis, if you are out skiing on a regular basis or have picked up a magazine in the last 5 years. 

Saying that these skis are just great for people with bad habits is a rash generalization and basically uniformed. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ske-Bum 

First of all I have a hard time believing that you have never heard of rockered  skis until today. Sorry, just not buying that you haven't heard of them or seen rockered skis, if you are out skiing on a regular basis or have picked up a magazine in the last 5 years. 

 

Saying that these skis are just great for people with bad habits is a rash generalization and basically uniformed. 

To be fair, they're not nearly as prominent in Europe as they are elsewhere. Even the biggest resorts will only have a handful of people riding them.

That said, you can still see them around if you know where to look.
 

Why buy any ski they aren't necessary

I'm gonna try me some rockers before I get too old and get confined to a rocker. New is not necessarily bad or lazy. Hey, you think they stink then don't use them. Condemning others for their choice is your problem not theirs. Jus sayin.....live and let ski.

Quote:

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

I've never even heard of rockered skis until reading on this website. I've spoken to some friends who still teach and they didn't know either.

Oh, and it's not a competition, I know they may increase enjoyment, but at what point do you say enough is enough. From the advert I read, these skis are great for people with bad habits. I bet the guy skiing in that clip could ski that line just as well on a regular shaped ski.

What you're saying is just ignorant. The guy in the clip wasn't really skiing deep powder, and what he did I could ski on a 65mm waist with no trouble. However, there is a reason people ski AK on 110mm+ waists with rockered tips. The reason being that in deep powder, you can charge harder by mounting farther forward. Essentially the more rocker you have, the less you can focus on floating and the more you can focus about charging and carving through the powder. Rocker is certainly not necessary for resort skiing; I still ski non rockered skis for all but my backcountry hikes. Even then its not "necessary", its just something that contributes to my enjoyment when skiing 3 feet of snow.

Rocker is certainly overhyped right now; you see a lot of people on resorts with skis like the Obsethed or Chopstick etc., but that's their call, not yours. If it contributes to their enjoyment of the sport, that's none of your concern, and you should keep doing things the way you like to. That's the nice thing about skiing; there's thousands of different skis and boots and bindings, and its up to you to arrange them in a way that you find pleasurable. 

Quote: <crap snipped>

Originally Posted by skiingaround 

Disgusting.

Hmmmm.... what's that smell?

Metal edges give you better edge grip on hard snow? Plastic boots give you more control of your skis? These new bindings will release and the skis will come off in a hard fall? All these things are clearly for people who don't have any skill and shouldn't be allowed on the hill. Disgusting.

His friends in NZ all live in caves and only come out one day a year.

Add to the list of "No Reason to.."

Metal edges

Plastic boots

Release bindings

Oh,, and that other fad...shape skis. 

First of all,

Anyone who doubts the degree of difficulty in Bushwhacker's video is nuts-That was as good a representation of high-end Northern Vermont tight tree skiing (replete with jagged ankle high rocks, thickets, low branches and blocks of ice) as you'll see.  And that is a tight, fast line being shown-if he says rockers make that possible, it's an argument I'd have to take seriously.

Like they say on that forum I'm sure your a fan of...If you have some video that rivals BWPA's in similar terrain (on your narrow carving skis or not) feel free to put it up.  'Till then, I find Bushwhackers video pretty convincing that there may just possibly be something to these 'rockers'.

Secondly, 'disgusting'???  That's a strange and visceral reaction to stranger's choice in equipment--I wonder about someone who gets deeply upset and needs to launch a public diatribe because someone likes a different ski than them.  Weird.

On the topic-I'm interested in the third generation shapes coming out now-trying to really stretch the versatilty of the rocker/ camber profile of mid fat skis (I like the look and design of next year's Rossignol Experience line--especially the 88).

FWIW-non of the skis I presently own are rockered-my powder ski is an Icelantic Nomad SFT-a fattish Twin with soft flex--works really well-but in tight, steep trees with crust/crud snow, I get the feeling a little rocker might make some sense.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam 

First of all,

 

Anyone who doubts the degree of difficulty in Bushwhacker's video is nuts-That was as good a representation of high-end Northern Vermont tight tree skiing (replete with jagged ankle high rocks, thickets, low branches and blocks of ice) as you'll see.  And that is a tight, fast line being shown-if he says rockers make that possible, it's an argument I'd have to take seriously.

 

Like they say on that forum I'm sure your a fan of...If you have some video that rivals BWPA's in similar terrain (on your narrow carving skis or not) feel free to put it up.  'Till then, I find Bushwhackers video pretty convincing that there may just possibly be something to these 'rockers'.

 

Secondly, 'disgusting'???  That's a strange and visceral reaction to stranger's choice in equipment--I wonder about someone who gets deeply upset and needs to launch a public diatribe because someone likes a different ski than them.  Weird.

 

On the topic-I'm interested in the third generation shapes coming out now-trying to really stretch the versatilty of the rocker/ camber profile of mid fat skis (I like the look and design of next year's Rossignol Experience line--especially the 88).

 

FWIW-non of the skis I presently own are rockered-my powder ski is an Icelantic Nomad SFT-a fattish Twin with soft flex--works really well-but in tight, steep trees with crust/crud snow, I get the feeling a little rocker might make some sense.

 

One thing I have noticed. There is a segment of the skiing community that seems to spend more time being angry at others than actually enjoying their day at the mountain.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by CerebralVortex 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ske-Bum 

First of all I have a hard time believing that you have never heard of rockered  skis until today. Sorry, just not buying that you haven't heard of them or seen rockered skis, if you are out skiing on a regular basis or have picked up a magazine in the last 5 years. 

 

Saying that these skis are just great for people with bad habits is a rash generalization and basically uniformed. 

To be fair, they're not nearly as prominent in Europe as they are elsewhere. Even the biggest resorts will only have a handful of people riding them.

 

That said, you can still see them around if you know where to look.
 

Yeah, but I'm sure they still have magazines or ski porn over there. I don't know what he is going to do when the skiers on the World Cup have rocker in their race skis that would destroy his argument that they are only for people who only have bad habits.

Granted I still see people who can't buy a turn "Ape draping" (Ape draping is a technical term for people who ski with their hands around their knees) a run. That would happen if they were on rockered or non rockered skis. 
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by Liam 

First of all,

 

Anyone who doubts the degree of difficulty in Bushwhacker's video is nuts-That was as good a representation of high-end Northern Vermont tight tree skiing (replete with jagged ankle high rocks, thickets, low branches and blocks of ice) as you'll see.  And that is a tight, fast line being shown-if he says rockers make that possible, it's an argument I'd have to take seriously.

 

Like they say on that forum I'm sure your a fan of...If you have some video that rivals BWPA's in similar terrain (on your narrow carving skis or not) feel free to put it up.  'Till then, I find Bushwhackers video pretty convincing that there may just possibly be something to these 'rockers'.

 

Certainly its not an intermediate line but it wasn't anything spectacular either. Deep snow is what gives rockers an edge and as I'm sure you know, Vermont is more famous for ice than its powder. I don't want to detract from the purpose of the video, but people were skiing lines like that on 220mm non-shaped skis. That doesn't make said lines easy, but that wasn't a good example of where rocker is hugely beneficial.
 

I can remember when carving skis came out.  The kids at the shop said you had to lean over like you were water skiing to use them.  The ski magazines didn't help with that perception with all of them showing a skier carving a turn with his/her upper body almost touching the snow.  I was perplexed at why you would want a ski that would put you in such a vulnerable position & put off trying them until some of the race instructors started skiing them correctly.  Sounds like the same sort of misinformation is being spread about rockers.

Wow, I can't believe we are having this discussion again.

As for BWPA's non-spectacular line, I'm the guy in the red jacket that keeps coming into view and I will say that that line gets skied a few days a year. The camera really does flatten things out! Maybe the reason it looks like there isn't that much snow is because the rockered skis do as advertised and help keep you up on top of that dense wind-affected (but still deep) snow. The first time I ever skied that line was on a pair of 198 Volkl P40 F1s. I can tell you for sure it was a hell of a lot more fun and less taxing on my S7s! That's kinda what I'm in it for - the fun. If you or anyone else finds rockered skis "disgusting", just look the other way when I go by. I hope you are having fun on your SuperShapes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

Wow, I can't believe we are having this discussion again.

 

As for BWPA's non-spectacular line, I'm the guy in the red jacket that keeps coming into view and I will say that that line gets skied a few days a year. The camera really does flatten things out! Maybe the reason it looks like there isn't that much snow is because the rockered skis do as advertised and help keep you up on top of that dense wind-affected (but still deep) snow. The first time I ever skied that line was on a pair of 198 Volkl P40 F1s. I can tell you for sure it was a hell of a lot more fun and less taxing on my S7s! That's kinda what I'm in it for - the fun. If you or anyone else finds rockered skis "disgusting", just look the other way when I go by. I hope you are having fun on your SuperShapes.

Certainly the camera does flatten things, but rocker doesn't keep you on the top, it keeps your tips from diving. Any fat ski can provide float, but non-rockered skis require a tad more finesse (this is not a positive for some and others prefer to work, personal choice). Personally I prefer to spend my time in deep snow enjoying the ride and not focusing on keeping my tips from diving to the bottom, so when it gets deep I hop on some Chopsticks and ride the snow.

Like I said earlier, its sort of funny and sad in its own right that you're disgusted by others ski choice. Skiing is about being dynamic and having fun; you ski what you want and have a blast. If others want to ski rocker, that's fine with me. 

Quote:

Originally Posted by iKabrex 

rocker doesn't keep you on the top, it keeps your tips from diving.

I'm sorry, is there a difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

Wow, I can't believe we are having this discussion again.

I thought the same thing and then promptly typed and hit the 'Submit' button. I'm a little ashamed at how easily I jumped into this thread. I'll have more control next week when Tahoe gets some powder to distract me.
 

Quote:

Originally Posted by epic 

I'm sorry, is there a difference?

Yes there is a difference. You can float on top in a non-rockered ski and catch tips occasionally and a rockered ski helps prevent that. That is why they gave fat skis rocker. They had the float, but it was a lot of effort to keep your weight proper etc.