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Stockli rotor 106, scot Schmidt 2011, kastle 108

post #1 of 21
Thread Starter 
I would appreciate any comments regarding These skis for powder usage. I have the vxl which is fantastic, but am looking for a deep day ride.

I'm 6 2, 230, intermediate advanced skier on the west coast (bc).

The new kastle mx 108 sounds compelling as well....how does it's characteristics compare?

Thanks in advance.

.
post #2 of 21

Welcome to Epic. I don't see any of these as either a dedicated powder ride, or necessarily an optimal choice for an intermediate-advanced. Own several Kastles and coupla Stocklis, they're wonderful, but will be demanding too, and ones you cite are really are big mountain skis that eat up chopped pow, variable or settled snow. Of the three the Rotor 106 will be the most maneuverable, closest to what you'd enjoy. Other two are gonna ask for bigger speeds and more wide open spaces to shine. Especially the SS. 

 

As an alternative, I'd suggest first reading Dawgcatching's reviews on 100+ skis. He's in the NW, appreciates the kind of snow you see, does a good job summarizing strengths and weaknesses. 

post #3 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks for the input. I have read several of Dawgs excellent reviews and frankly consider them must reads before considering a new ski. Just hadn't seen any mention of these two stocklis, which are hard to come by here, and virtually impossible to demo. I can usually make an informed decision based on description alone.

I'll check his comments out again.
post #4 of 21

If you want to join Real Skiers, they have reviews of all. Given that they don't cotton to wider skis, their ratings of the Rotor 106 are amazing, and the 108 got some Ski of the Year there last year. Not sure if that means small sample of reviewers or truly great skis. Not so hot on the SS's. I can assume why. 

post #5 of 21

I have ridden all 3 of the skis you mentioned.  They're all great skis, but I vote the same as beyond - none of the above.  I also have put a lot of time in on my VXLs so I can relate to what you probably like in a ski construction/feel-wise.

 

There are probably much better options for you, but we need to know more about the type of skiing you like to do on deeper days (short turns, long turns, trees, cliff dropping, etc.).  What do you want the deep days ski to be for you?

post #6 of 21
Thread Starter 
The vxl is perfect for 80% of what we get in whistler. I had the ac 4 before and they rocked but ultimately I found them extremely demanding, hard and unforgiving. The vxl was to address that and give me better powder control. The vxl for me anyway is damp, extremely fast, accelerates, can be flicked around, carve and surf. It is forgiving and merely expects confidence, even when you think you are in a tough spot relax and trust yourself on these and you are good. But they are not ideal in two circumstances, really hard icy conditions and really deep bowl type skiing. I can manage both, but I think that there are better options.

For the icy days, I'll be looking at the laser sx. For deeper days ( often during march) I would like something delivers speed and turns, but that if I need or want to, hit the groomers or tracked out stuff I can.

What I want is a ski that offers many of the vxl benefits with a bit more surf, and some better turning.....although my technique probably needs some work too.

I am looking for a ski that compliments my weight, strength and athletic ability and helps me elevate my skillset and enjoyment. Hence the three choices I tossed into the ring.
post #7 of 21

I can only offer advice for the skis I know (and have ridden):

 

1. DPS Wailer 112RP

2. Blizzard Bonafide or Cochise

3. Stockli Stormrider 95 or 110

 

And yeah, 4 of those 5 skis are 2012 models.  IMO they're worth waiting for.

post #8 of 21

I've never skied the vxl's, but I have skied the Scot Schmidts. I liked the Scot Schmidts, but based upon what you said, I think that you're better off considering the DPS Wailer 112RPs or something like the Praxis Protests, both of which I've skied-- I own the Protests.

post #9 of 21

I Love the schmidts. They are my favorite big mountain "blast thru chop" ski. And, they ski great on groomers too. The new 101mm schmidt is even better than the older 89mm because it has a softer tip. It actually carves very well on groomed if you like to ski fast.

 

BUT, I would not choose them as my powder ski. If you were skiing all over a big mountain they would be a good choice. But if you are looking for a deep snow powder ski then they are not even close.

 

I'm going to try the praxis protest. I understand they ski powder almost as well as the praxis powders but not a bad on the groomed stuff going back to the lift. More comments from those who ski it would be great. Zman, could you tell us more?

 

I'm 6'2" and 260lbs. So I'm similar in size to you. Dawgcatching gives great reviews but remember (as I do) he is a lot smaller and lighter than us. If you read any of his reviews you may want to ask him how a particular ski would do at your size. He is a nice guy and always answers questions.

 

On a day when you're not skiing powder, you may want to try out the schmidt just for the fun of it. It is not a forgiving as the VLX but you may like it.

 

Johnny 


Edited by johnnysdg - 2/13/11 at 4:00pm
post #10 of 21

Skied my son's Praxis Protest and had a chance to  speak to Kevin (owner - designer) about them. He said he makes his skis bomber, to hold up to anything. This makes it great for the big dudes riding them hard. I loved this ski and would own a pair in a second. The hybrid does work, you can get them back to the chair. They are burley and agile and at 130mm great float which you control simply by pushing with your feet which brings you up. What a combination. Good lookin' too. Little kid (like 6 years old max) saw them on a powder day and said to my kid: "nice skis". No comments on my wonderful boards from the younger skiers (5 to 7 group) at Tahoe, cause it's Tahoe.

 

Stockli would prob have an identity crisis making a soft ski. The SS is a valued ski at Squaw among strong, charging skiers, as it will never let you down and goes reeealy fast, and the good powder is no prob anyhow.

post #11 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks J.

I do consider the weight factor important as you stress in your comment. I'm built like a linebacker, and most ski shop guys are more like tour de France riders....so I take their comments into consideration with how I may affect a skis behavior. I also appreciate the candidness of all the commentors here, especially the Clydesdales (like you and me) in assessing the characteristics of various skis.

I think Scot Schmidt has had a significant influence on the 80 plus part of the stockli line. The vxl's sound like a smaller Schmidt pro.

It is ironic that yesterday whistler had an epic powderish day, but with the alpine closed due to high winds,we stuck to mid mountain: first it was soft, then heavy, then soft and chopped up towards the later day. The vxl's were very good in the heavy but excelled in the chop and powder which was not too deep. Storm rider could not have been more appropriate name for the skis yesterday.
post #12 of 21

I played LB so I hear you!

 

 I've heard the vxl called the toned down schmidt. If you are skiing BC all the time then you should give the SS a try. Its the ultimate big mountain ski.

 

I bent my stockli XL skis but don't think I could bend a schmidt.

 

Can anyone comment on the new stockli pro? Isn't that supposed to be their powder ski?

 

 

Noodler - not to hijack the thread........but what is the stormrider 95 and 110?

 

 

 

post #13 of 21

Real Skiers = peer reviews, shop employees. greatrolleyes.gif don't waste your time. SJ or Dawg  or Whiteroom are knowledgeable reviewers. Who's interested in a peer review?  That has got to be the lamest site I've ever seen. Don't agree with several posters on this, so there are several views on the issue. Just a heads up from my perspective. They say you need spend the 20 bucks only to get such and such, but I don't think you get squat without paying, or get squat even if you pay.

post #14 of 21
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnnysdg View Post

 

Can anyone comment on the new stockli pro? Isn't that supposed to be their powder ski?

 

Noodler - not to hijack the thread........but what is the stormrider 95 and 110?

 


For 2011 the Stormrider Pro was marketed as Stockli's "powder" ski, but for 2012 that crown will be moved to two new skis; the Stormrider 95 and 110 TT.

 

Stormrider 95: 128-95-117 available in 166 (17.6m), 174 (19.7m), 183 (22.2m), 192 (24.8m) - wood core and two sheets of titanal

Stormrider 110 TT: 136-110-124 available in 174 (23.6m), 183 (27.0m), 192 (30.4m) - wood core with two "extra light " sheets of titanal

 

These two new skis are rockered.  The 95 only has nose rocker while the 110 has tip and tail rocker (they call it a twin tip hence the TT in the moniker).  The rocker on the 95/110 is true rocker - not just early rise.  Both skis have the low profile type tips (like this season's Gotama).  Stockli doesn't publish their rocker numbers and I didn't have the time/tools to measure them, but the rocker is very "present" - it's not marketing rocker.  The rise starts fairly early in the tip.  The tail rocker on the 110 isn't radical though.

 

They skied just like you would expect a Stockli to feel.  Strong, smooth, and damp.  However, in 2D conditions I had a tough time getting the tips to fully engage when on edge in higher angles.  I did not have this issue on the new Blizzard models (Bonafide, Cochise, Bodacious).  At this point can't say whether my problem was due to Stockli not marrying the sidecut well with the rocker profile or if it was a binding mount position issue for me.  I have more forward mounts on all of my Stocklis so it could very well be that I wasn't in a good place on the demos for my skiing.

 

IIRC, the 95 had a flex pattern similar to the VXL and the 110 was a tad softer.  Luckily they have them in the 192 length for you big guys.  I'm only 5' 7" 175 lbs.  I skied the 183 length on both skis.  Personally I preferred the 95, but I also preferred the Blizzard Bonafide over the 95 during the demos.  I much preferred my DPS Wailer 112RP over the 110, but I've had a lot more time on the 112RP. 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more thoughts on these new skis from the other reviewers as the 2012 demo season progresses.

post #15 of 21

I love Stockli, but I'm still leaning toward the praxis protest for a powder ski. I think stockli may be a few years behind in that area. Frankly, I think they should just come out with some kick a$$ powder skis or just stick with their niche. Sounds like them are trying to just "a little bit pregnant". Or, they could be great now but I need a bit more info before I buy a pair.

 

Thanks

 

Johnny

post #16 of 21

I think you may be right.  It takes Stockli a little more time to flesh out new designs.  They definitely are behind the curve on pure powder tools, but it's nice to have the Stockli construction and feel on some newer type designs.  They'll get there...  eventually.

post #17 of 21

Hi Noodler,

 

I've been hoping to contact you, and I hope you see this post.

If someone knows him and could contact him to get a hold of me, I would appreciate it

 

Could you email me please  

matchless1@shaw.ca

 

Thanks

post #18 of 21

I haven't been on the 2012 Stocklis, but they look sweet.  I should try them out in a couple of weeks.

 

I haven't found anything that beats the MX108.  Cochise is right up there, but doesn't beat it. For a big-mountain, serious iron pow and mixed condition pow tool, nothing approaches the MX128.  I just was on it at a demo (with only 4-8 inches of new) and it blew every other big (115+) ski I tried away in the mixed stuff. All were good in the deep pow, but the skied-out crud toward the bottom it what separated the MX128 from the others; it was just tip and rip on that ski; if you are a good skier, you will be all over that ski, thinking that someone just took your old race sticks, doubled them up, made them forgiving and soft, yet still has the "feel" of a ski that likes to be driven, that likes to be loaded up then released, that likes edge angle, power, yet is slarvy and can be used to scrub speed by just pivoting the feet.  The 108 skis identically, just narrower, and so forgiving.  Test lengths were 188cm.  I didn't try the Bodacious (the 118 Blizzard) yet. 

 

For more resort-style mixed conditions, I would probably grab the 108.  The 128 would still work, but if it really starts to bump out, the 108 will feel superior at the end of the day.  You might want the 128 first thing, though!  Personally, the 128 is the "big ski" I have been looking for.

post #19 of 21
Thread Starter 
Thanks Dawg. I appreciate your input on those 2 skis.
I know they have the 128 in whistler, but not sure about demos in either the 128 or 108. The rep owns the demos and I understand that there may be some size limitations.... I will be looking for a 108 if possible. I generally have not demoed skis, but this new ski area appears to demand more careful consideration.
Which brings me to a size question: I use the 179 in the vxl's which is perfect in pretty much everything. Do you stick with the same length as you widen or add a little? And how much impact may a larger stronger skier have on a ski like this in 179ish vs say 185ish? (mx108)

I also look forward to your 2012 stockli reviews.

And a belated thanks to several thought provoking contributors to this thread.
post #20 of 21
Nit to hijack this thread, but.... So, Noodler- are you aiming for something like a 2-ski quiver with Bonafide for most days and a 112RP for soft and deep days? That's what I am starting to dream of for next year. There is probably overlap between those two skis but overlap is good fir resort skiing where conditions change throughout the day.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post


For 2011 the Stormrider Pro was marketed as Stockli's "powder" ski, but for 2012 that crown will be moved to two new skis; the Stormrider 95 and 110 TT.

 

Stormrider 95: 128-95-117 available in 166 (17.6m), 174 (19.7m), 183 (22.2m), 192 (24.8m) - wood core and two sheets of titanal

Stormrider 110 TT: 136-110-124 available in 174 (23.6m), 183 (27.0m), 192 (30.4m) - wood core with two "extra light " sheets of titanal

 

These two new skis are rockered.  The 95 only has nose rocker while the 110 has tip and tail rocker (they call it a twin tip hence the TT in the moniker).  The rocker on the 95/110 is true rocker - not just early rise.  Both skis have the low profile type tips (like this season's Gotama).  Stockli doesn't publish their rocker numbers and I didn't have the time/tools to measure them, but the rocker is very "present" - it's not marketing rocker.  The rise starts fairly early in the tip.  The tail rocker on the 110 isn't radical though.

 

They skied just like you would expect a Stockli to feel.  Strong, smooth, and damp.  However, in 2D conditions I had a tough time getting the tips to fully engage when on edge in higher angles.  I did not have this issue on the new Blizzard models (Bonafide, Cochise, Bodacious).  At this point can't say whether my problem was due to Stockli not marrying the sidecut well with the rocker profile or if it was a binding mount position issue for me.  I have more forward mounts on all of my Stocklis so it could very well be that I wasn't in a good place on the demos for my skiing.

 

IIRC, the 95 had a flex pattern similar to the VXL and the 110 was a tad softer.  Luckily they have them in the 192 length for you big guys.  I'm only 5' 7" 175 lbs.  I skied the 183 length on both skis.  Personally I preferred the 95, but I also preferred the Blizzard Bonafide over the 95 during the demos.  I much preferred my DPS Wailer 112RP over the 110, but I've had a lot more time on the 112RP. 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing more thoughts on these new skis from the other reviewers as the 2012 demo season progresses.

post #21 of 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by alexzn View Post

Nit to hijack this thread, but.... So, Noodler- are you aiming for something like a 2-ski quiver with Bonafide for most days and a 112RP for soft and deep days? That's what I am starting to dream of for next year. There is probably overlap between those two skis but overlap is good fir resort skiing where conditions change throughout the day.
 

That's a good question.  The thing about the 112RP in Colorado is we just don't get big dumps regularly.  In anything less than 12" of new the 112RP planes up so easily for me that I can't even tell I'm skiing in deep snow.  That's where a ski like the Bonafide comes in for my quiver.  I'm going to use my ZAG Heli Gold as my early season ski for deeper days.  Then once we have sufficient coverage I would go with the Bone on a 6-12" day and the 112RP for any bigger dumps.

 

I still want some narrower skis in my quiver, but I believe that the Bone for many Western skiers can be their daily driver and then have another ski for truly deep days.  So basically I'm agreeing with you alexzn - more than likely you would be in a happy place with those two, but I guess it depends on the type of skiing you like to do.  I still need some short carvers in my arsenal.

 

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