EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Useing other peoples passes.
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Useing other peoples passes. - Page 3

post #61 of 88

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

OK, how about if I don't have a lift ticket but I only get on chairs that would otherwise go up empty or partially filled? Who am I harming? How am I stealing?

 

How about when I pull up next to two or three people who are about to board a quad and as I enter the loading zone they hang back because they don't want to share their smoke with me? I ride alone and the liftline becomes 5 seconds longer. Who's at fault? Who should go to jail? Who cares?


You're stealing because of the business model and the terms of use. Simple as that. The business model isn't "pay for a lift ride" and the P&L is not calculated based on how many skiers ride how many lifts. The business model is "sell passes (and other stuff) to cover costs and profit". It's actually a much riskier model and much less expensive for passionate skiers. In general, skiers who are really "into" skiing know how to get discounts, buy multi-day and season passes, and know how to get the most from each ski day. The "per lift ride" cost is very low for such skiers in comparison with those who go up for a 5-day vacation and pay full pop.

 

Force a change to the "per lift ride" model and ski areas effectively turn into toll roads. No thanks. Certainly wouldn't benefit most of the members of EpicSki!

 

You can't have it both ways. You can't simply consider the cost of hauling a skier up the mountain in the business model! There are lease fees, labor throughout the resort, maintenance of buildings and equipment, snowmaking, and more that all go into the P&L model and have to work in order for the resort to stay afloat. And ski resorts are not highly profitable businesses, but do ok (23.5% profit overall in 2008/09 according to NSGA: http://archive.constantcontact.com/fs047/1101981701899/archive/1103383938650.html, for comparison, Apple was 40.3% this past quarter). Their profits are highly volatile based on weather, fuel costs, and other variables.

post #62 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

OK, how about if I don't have a lift ticket but I only get on chairs that would otherwise go up empty or partially filled? Who am I harming? How am I stealing?

 

How about when I pull up next to two or three people who are about to board a quad and as I enter the loading zone they hang back because they don't want to share their smoke with me? I ride alone and the liftline becomes 5 seconds longer. Who's at fault? Who should go to jail? Who cares?

My business model is similar to ski resorts in that most of our costs are fixed costs, so I can appreciate their pricing strategies. Most of our costs being fixed costs means our costs are the same or close to the same whether or not we have two customers or 2000 customers. The variable costs (the additional costs per customer) are very low -- i.e. you're not costing the resort very much by riding a lift. This actually makes pricing somewhat complex because resort owners have to estimate how many lift ticket purchasers they are going to have in a given season and make sure the price they charge each person is going to cover their large fixed costs along with their small variable costs. Essentially, all lift ticket purchasers are sharing the costs--particularly the high fixed costs--of running a resort. When you don't pay to ride the chair you're not really screwing the resort as much as you are screwing the rest of us who paid our share because our share had to be bigger to pay for those of you who are using the lift without paying your share.
 

post #63 of 88

Quote:

Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

OK, how about if I don't have a lift ticket but I only get on chairs that would otherwise go up empty or partially filled? Who am I harming? How am I stealing?

 

How about when I pull up next to two or three people who are about to board a quad and as I enter the loading zone they hang back because they don't want to share their smoke with me? I ride alone and the liftline becomes 5 seconds longer. Who's at fault? Who should go to jail? Who cares?

 

Okay, my $0.02.  If you, personally, have some kind of arrangment with the resort that you can ride an empty chair, then more power to you.  IMO, it doesn't make a lick of difference to anyone's enjoyment of the slopes.  However, if that's the policy of the resort, then every Joe Blow who doesn't want to pay for a lift ticket will show up, hoping to ride the empties, and clog the lift line, adding hundreds more skiers per day, crowding the runs, using more energy, increasing the incremental costs of the resort, more traffic up the canyons.  Not to mention the fact that nobody will buy lift tickets because everyone will just wait and ride the empties....I mean, why bother dropping $50 when you can get a few free rides?  I'm sure there are individuals who have a sweetheart arrangement with various resorts.  I wish I was one of them, but I'm not, so I drop a few bucks for my season pass. 

post #64 of 88

Don't forget the value I bring to the ski area just by being there. People get a great deal of pleasure merely watching me ski and are much more likely to return to a given ski hill if they've seen me skiing there.

 

Really, they should pay me appearance money.

post #65 of 88

"How much do you charge to not show up?"

 

"Oh you couldn't afford us."

 

 

Marx Brothers

post #66 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Don't forget the value I bring to the ski area just by being there. People get a great deal of pleasure merely watching me ski and are much more likely to return to a given ski hill if they've seen me skiing there.

 

Really, they should pay me appearance money.



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

"How much do you charge to not show up?"

 

"Oh you couldn't afford us."

 

 

Marx Brothers

ROTF.gif
 

post #67 of 88

Don't the resorts on leased land have some sort of capacity guidelines as part of their leases?

post #68 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

"How much do you charge to not show up?"

 

"Oh you couldn't afford us."

 

 

Marx Brothers


(I figured this was a joke thread and my posts in it shouldn't be taken too seriously.)

 

You may recall, I skied without a lift ticket the day I skied with you, Steve. It was kinda crowded when I went to get a lift ticket, so I decided to acquire gear for myself and my companion first and I forgot to go back for my lift ticket. Wachusett always gives me a free one anyway, so I guess I saved them some operational costs by not bothering them about it. I'm glad I didn't go to jail for that! Apparently they don't check lift tickets if you look like you're old enough to know better.

 

The only other time I stole a lift ride was at Blue Knob last year after a long early morning XC ski that happened to take me to the bottom of the resort. I would have skied back up, but I was kinda tired and the chair looked so inviting... I bought a lift ticket as soon as I got back to the top.

post #69 of 88

Hmm, was I skiing on an expired day pass when we went night skiing last year? Oops!  If so, it was an oversight, not intentional.
 

Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Don't forget the value I bring to the ski area just by being there. People get a great deal of pleasure merely watching me ski and are much more likely to return to a given ski hill if they've seen me skiing there.

 

Really, they should pay me appearance money.



 

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiMangoJazz View Post

"How much do you charge to not show up?"

 

"Oh you couldn't afford us."

 

 

Marx Brothers

ROTF.gif
 

post #70 of 88

I really like the flex tickets.   Some places in Japan charge by the run.  That would be a better deal on really crowded days..

post #71 of 88


 

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

I really like the flex tickets.   Some places in Japan charge by the run.  That would be a better deal on really crowded days..

 

 

That would be bad for most of us... including you once your kids are old enough to ski a full day.

I'm sure the pricing model would be based on a "typical" number of runs per day -- not the ski bell to bell, skip lunch, race for last chair number of runs.
 

post #72 of 88
Thread Starter 

TRod you sure are taking alot ofm heat on this one hahahhaha. You can share my scotch a BK

post #73 of 88

     Quote:

Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

I really like the flex tickets.   Some places in Japan charge by the run.  That would be a better deal on really crowded days..


Years ago both Stowe & MRG sold single ride coupon books that could be used anytime. I don't remember exactly but I think there were about 10 single ride coupons in a book. Somedays we use a coupon to ride the Big Spruce chair at Stowe & ski over to Madonna (now Smugs) & buy a ticket to ski there all day & then return to Stowe at the end of the day. Yes you can ski from one area to the other. Saved a lot of driving time but is cost prohibitive to do now. Other times if you just wanted to make a run or two they were cost effective as opposed to purchasing a day ticket.

 

Personally I would never try to rip off a ski area by not purchasing a ticket to ski.

post #74 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Boot View Post

TRod you sure are taking alot of heat on this one hahahhaha. You can share my scotch a BK

 

It's all your fault for starting this thread! To tell the truth, I do not condone theft of services and only did it by mistake a few times as noted above. Although my job requires me to run red lights, go wrong way on one way streets, split lanes, hang onto the sides of buses, etc. etc., I'm not a scofflaw, honestly! 

 

While I'm confessing my sins... about those "Property of USPS'' mail tubs I used to carry stuff to BK last year, a client had put a bunch of books in them that friday and I had no option but to take them home with me for the weekend after delivering the contents to Congress. So I used them that weekend but I returned them to the Post Office the following week. 

 

Request permission to enter this photographic evidence in my defense.

IMG_0224.jpg
 

 

Old Boot wrote "You can share my scotch at BK"

 

I don't know if I will be able to attend, but I hope I can make it. 

post #75 of 88

i know im a bit late here, but as a skier, and a former perpetrator (if that is the right word...) i'd like to add my opinion

 

2 years ago, i did a season in banff, and since moved to calgary. ive had a sunshine season pass for the last 3 years, including that first year when i was living in banff... a lot of my friends left in february / march of that year, and left me their season pass when they went back to their home countries. they werent coming back, so didnt care whether their pass got confiscated or whatever. anyways, some of my friends here in calgary used their pass on several occasions that season.

 

late in the season, i had a friend who came to visit from australia, who had never seen snow before. we were old enough and smart enough to know better, but definitely cheap enough to think this was a good idea. he was brown, the guy on the pass was white... for anybody unfamiliar with sunshine, a gondola takes you up to the lifts, so you only need to show your pass once in the day, when you get on the gondola. we went twice, the first time, on a saturday, they either didnt notice or were too busy to do anything about it. the second time, it was a thursday, with about 50 people in the whole resort. my friend walked straight out of the rental shop, carrying his skis in both arms, got his pass scanned and headed up onto the gondola with me... they let us on, and then ski patrol picked us up at the top and asked to see our passes

 

obviously we didnt fight it, it was pretty bloody obvious. we apologized multiple times, and were both genuinely ashamed of what we did... and to be honest, I am still ashamed of it. they made us buy a day ticket, whch i paid for, and let us off. it was clear my friend had never skied before, so i guess they werent too harsh on him. the one thing they said which stuck with me was the allegation of "theft of service". I had never thought about it like that before, but its true.

 

Anyways, since that incident (and despite it), I think I've done a lot to help that resort... I am a 3 year season pass holder, and will continue to be as long as i live in calgary. and most weekends i ski there im skiing with someone who is paying.

 

so thats my story. and why i wont be using anybody elses season pass, or letting anybody else use mine

 

post #76 of 88

You'll still support Sunshine in light of this:

 

12 ski patrollers call in sick @ Sunshine Village to protest unfair firings

 

?

 

It's likely the patrollers who helped you have been fired!

post #77 of 88

thats a different topic... no im not very happy with that, obviously

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by ssh View Post

You'll still support Sunshine in light of this:

 

12 ski patrollers call in sick @ Sunshine Village to protest unfair firings

 

?

 

It's likely the patrollers who helped you have been fired!

post #78 of 88

Here's what Vail thinks:

 

Vail Sign.jpg

post #79 of 88

Vail sucks.

post #80 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by crgildart View Post

I really like the flex tickets.   Some places in Japan charge by the run.  That would be a better deal on really crowded days..



Solitude does that. You can't buy single runs, but the Ride Axess card lets you buy 10, 20, 30 and then roll them over whenever you want to use them. Not sure if it's good from season to season, but a nice option for half days, busy days or just getting a run or two in without a season pass.

post #81 of 88

 

Quote:
Originally Posted by telerod15 View Post

Vail sucks.


Thieves suck.

post #82 of 88

Yo mommas business model.

post #83 of 88

What gives mass corporate conglomerates the right to charge me to be in a National Forest?! And if your response is, "a lease" then where is my payment for leasing them our forest?

post #84 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFU View Post
 

What gives mass corporate conglomerates the right to charge me to be in a National Forest?! And if your response is, "a lease" then where is my payment for leasing them our forest?

 

You know, I forgot to pay my taxes.  Can I get your address since apparently you're collecting all payments on behalf of the government?

 

Excellent old thread bump troll, btw.  Kudos!

post #85 of 88

What's with all the necro posting recently?

post #86 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFU View Post
 

What gives mass corporate conglomerates the right to charge me to be in a National Forest?! And if your response is, "a lease" then where is my payment for leasing them our forest?

 

You know, in a sense I agree with you, but not in the sense of any discussion of this thread.

 

It is MY national forest. I get cross with the idea that access to my national forest is restricted in the sense of uphill travel closures.  I don't think the guy at Jackson that got arrested for skinning up was in the wrong- private closures of public land gets my hackles up, even though I recognize I am pissing into the wind by grumping about it.

 

 

But even I am not enough of a jackass to fail to recognize that the "charge" associated with skiing is to ride the millions and millions of dollars worth of uphill conveyances.

post #87 of 88

As to the original arguments in this 2011 post, I think Vail sucks in many ways, but doesn't suck as badly as people that want to rationalize fraud with a really transparent "stick it to the man" argument.

 

If you don't like Vail and don't like their business model, don't ski there. Support better ski areas, and don't rip any of them off.  if you don't want to pay to ski, the backcountry is calling. If you don't want slide risk, look into the uphill travel rules at your local hills (Sunlight ski area has a great one that has no problems with uphill travel during operating hours).

 

As to the original brilliant idea of-

Quote:
should we keep track and post season pass holders that are the injured no can ski season pass holders.

 

The answer is NO. NO YOU SHOULDN"T.

 

This sounds a lot like starting with an idea that is fraud, and ramping it up into "conspiracy to commit" as well as getting into losses that make it a felony (over $500- or 4  Vail skier visits).  If that wasn't bad enough, if any part of such happened on this board, then there would be written evidence of the conspiracy to commit fraud.

 

This could be one of the dumbest ideas I have ever heard on this board, and the heartcarvers guy was here.

post #88 of 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by anachronism View Post
 

 

It is MY national forest. I get cross with the idea that access to my national forest is restricted in the sense of uphill travel closures.  I don't think the guy at Jackson that got arrested for skinning up was in the wrong- private closures of public land gets my hackles up, even though I recognize I am pissing into the wind by grumping about it.

 

 

I always think arguments about public land are little funny because no one ever complains about the fact that the government is also the one that determines what is and is not public land. Who gave them the authority to determine that the hill you live on is your private land but the one next to it is open to everyone?

 

It's the same authority that gives them the right to determine who can lease the land. A better term for it is government owned land, public just means that it isn't owned by any one person the government still has the right to determine who has access.      

New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:
  Return Home
  Back to Forum: General Skiing Discussion
EpicSki › The Barking Bear Forums › On the Snow (Skiing Forums) › General Skiing Discussion › Useing other peoples passes.