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2012 Ski Logik Line: Craftsmanship, Beauty, and Performance - Page 2

post #31 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by allan o'neil View Post



Quote:
Originally Posted by iamddn View Post

I really like the geometry on the Ski-Logik skis (wide tips with a short turn radius), but as an East-coast skier who may see powder once every 5 years, my concern is ice-hold, and I am excited to see some of the new, stiffer models.  I just wish the was some way to demo because it is hard to buy based on looks...


As as east coaster, that is a statement i will never understand. OK...if you are going to have only one ski I would never suggest a wide ski...but powder once in 5 years? I guess it depends on your definition of powder and the function / benefits of a wider ski in less than epic conditions.


LOL...I know enough people online to know that there is plenty of pow to be had in the East. You just have to put in a little more effort.

post #32 of 48

To the naysayers..Are these the best "performing" skis? Well, depends on your definition of what "performance" is. These are NOT my Kastles and i am not expecting that type of performance out of them but I could see a Ski Logik in my quiver for special days. 

post #33 of 48

if the weight is low and the power is medium, the ratio will be high, right? 

 

pro logic has nothing to do with rebound and power as a race ski (or lotus) might, I'd bet on that. I'd say we're talking cheap new Hyundai model with shiny red irridescent paint working out the performance kinks.... for a decade or more.

 

I do own several skis that match your Kaestles, so why would I or anyone expecting top performance from a ski have an interest in something less. what is the niche of a crappy performing ski? groomer days that have lousy weather that you're not expecting to have much fun or excitement. yes, that's exactly when something like that  comes out.  I'm really missing something here. a ski that doesn't measure up that has a special use.....hmmmth_dunno-1[1].gif

post #34 of 48

 


Quote:
Originally Posted by ecimmortal View Post

LOL...I know enough people online to know that there is plenty of pow to be had in the East. You just have to put in a little more effort.

Well, let's have full disclosure here: A "little more effort" is code for hiking to some trees. Well, fine, but trees that have not had the benefit of a recent storm in the east, with our thaw and refreeze cycles, can be mostly effort and not much reward. Also, you may not be the only skier who's had this bright idea, or knows about secret stashes, and back here square mileage is limited. It ain't BC. So how often will those trees actually get real powder that is there a day later? 

 

If you define powder requiring a 100+ ski as say anything over 6 inches in 24 hours, we don't get more than 4-6 days of those a season, and by lunch, the only pow that's left is in the woods. Where, since we have nice wet pow, it settles quickly. So your fatty better have some beef to it. Now if you have to drive a ways, after you make a living somewhere else, typically called "city," then the odds you'll catch any serious pow are down to 2/7 (weekend) x 6/120 (serious powder days out of a 4 month season). That works out to 1.4% If you extend your pow opportunities to include say three days after a 6" snowfall, and assume no thaw (good luck on that one), then you've improved your odds to 2/7 x 18/120, or a bit over 4%. Whoopee.

 

Even if you live right next to the mountain, and use your fatty for every three day window around every 6" "dump," you'll have use for your fatty about 15% of the season. Which is not bad, probably worth it if you can afford a second ski, but not precisely like living in Little Cottonwood Canyon. For most of us, the most useful "soft snow" ski is something like a S3 or One or Bridge or Prophet 100 that can blast crud and settled muck, edge, and still have some chops for the woods when they have more typical conditions, a few inches of fresh over a lot of settled snow that's bumped and cut. Not clear the topic of this thread has those qualities, but never skied them so...

 

Point being that we tend not to be realistic about the life circumstances of most posters here (and for the record, I can ski several days of a given week other than weekends, so not sour grape-ing it), and we tend to overestimate all the great pow because we love rare things so much. (We also fall in lust with skis we've never used and don't really need, but that's another thread, to be led by a clinical psychologist.)

post #35 of 48
Thread Starter 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Noodler View Post

     Quote:

Originally Posted by nolo View Post

Who said that they cost a lot? I believe they're comparable to others in their class.

 

To the naysayers: If you don't want the ski, don't buy it. Why you feel the need to harsh the buzz of those who admire the ski, I don't understand.th_dunno-1[1].gif


Because this is an Internet forum for discussing ski gear.  It's not a cheer leading clinic to pat each other on the back.  Epic members come here for the hard truth that they can barely get anywhere else.  Let's not go down the road where we start filtering and moderating out the real deal opinions on the gear.

Point taken, Noodler. This forum is not my usual haunt. There was a good buzz about these skis at SIA and obviously I was quite taken with their looks. I didn't do the ski test so can't comment on their performance, but its website states:

 

"Realskiers.com, which accepts no advertising revenues, awarded Ski Logik its coveted Overall Ski of the Year award, placing Ski Logik in first place in performance out of 286 skis reviewed." It's not clear which model they're talking about. 

 

David and Mariella Mazzarella have offered to create an EpicSki for us. Do you think we'll have many entries in that contest?

post #36 of 48

Ski Logik's art director Mariella discusses how she designs the topsheets.

 

http://www.skinet.com/ski/content/ski-logik

post #37 of 48

I love my Ski Logiks----they are just fine in powder (maybe not as great as some powder-specific skis) but they rock in the conditions I ski 90 percent of the time: packed powder, trees, bowls).

 

I'm liking them alot. Goddesses with ULLR motif.

 

ski logiks.jpg

post #38 of 48

Well I finally got to ski my Ski Logik Howitzers (186cm) in the conditions I bought them for....well almost. It snowed about 32 inches in the last 4 days here in southern Quebec, but by the time I got to the hill it was pretty well tracked out. So some packed powder on the easier runs, soft bumps every where else. I spent most of my time skiing knee to hip high soft piled up bumps in steep tight trees.

 

I am not a great reviewer, but I am a pretty decent skier. The Howitzers were just a breeze to ski. Absolutely mindless on the packed powder (not groomed) and stable too. Extremely nimble in the trees (not heavy at all) and just plowed through the big pile of snow that were everywhere.

 

Unfortunately I did not get to ski them in any fresh powder, but  cannot see how they would fail there given their other attributes.

 

On another note, there are always some rocks and buried rocks in the glades and I hit a bunch and while of course my edges need tuning, barely a scratch on the bases.

 

Highly recommended !

post #39 of 48

I believe many who post here really want to see Ski Logic succeed. The SL business model seems based on making a ski that does 2 things:  First, making a topsheet that appeals to those who appreciate the wood in-lay look, and, Second, to appeal to those skiers who occasionally do powder  and  packed powder via making a ski to facilitate those conditions differentiated by unique dimensions. Many who post on Epic fit that business model. I don't believe they seek to capture the Noodler's and Tetonpowderjunkie's in the first year of performance. Getting the Real Skiers "Ski of the Year" award is a bonus.

 

Reading the reviews, there is little "WOW" factor such as that generated by Kastle last year. Nice skis, not great. Much more comments about how good they look, a very subjective area. A friend who bought the Chariots based on Real Skiers reviews has skied them twice in conditions for which they were designed and he really likes them. While he is not a higher skill skier, they have provided value for his purchase. He's smiling. He lent me his skis for 3000 verticle feet of demo in the east on a day with 5 inches of new snow. A very quick, non-expert review, would be they were a fun ski for cruising. Did not seem to like getting on higher edge angles and once I got past his and just let them do their thing with minimal input, they worked much better. Would I like to take them out for a day in the west in conditions for which they were designed, you bet I would, but, there are 3 or 4 other skies I can say the same thing about.

 

Ultimately, skiers need to buy them and they have a lot of competition.

post #40 of 48

P.S. to LOGIK LOVE;

 

I also have Kaestles MX88 and have skied Pocket Rockets in powder for years----and I love my Logiks way more especially in soft conditions.  They are beefy enough to plow through packed/tracked, bumpy powder and dust on crust in Honeycomb--yet float on powder.  To me, they are hero skis in steep, soft snow, but less than perfect conditions.  IMHO, with 2 feet of new pow, any powder ski is great--cuz they float---but Logiks make me smile in the powder and keep the thrill going when the pow gets tracked out. 

post #41 of 48


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by Living Proof View Post

I believe many who post here really want to see Ski Logic succeed. The SL business model seems based on making a ski that does 2 things:  First, making a topsheet that appeals to those who appreciate the wood in-lay look, and, Second, to appeal to those skiers who occasionally do powder  and  packed powder via making a ski to facilitate those conditions differentiated by unique dimensions. Many who post on Epic fit that business model. I don't believe they seek to capture the Noodler's and Tetonpowderjunkie's in the first year of performance. Getting the Real Skiers "Ski of the Year" award is a bonus.

 

Reading the reviews, there is little "WOW" factor such as that generated by Kastle last year. Nice skis, not great. Much more comments about how good they look, a very subjective area. A friend who bought the Chariots based on Real Skiers reviews has skied them twice in conditions for which they were designed and he really likes them. While he is not a higher skill skier, they have provided value for his purchase. He's smiling. He lent me his skis for 3000 verticle feet of demo in the east on a day with 5 inches of new snow. A very quick, non-expert review, would be they were a fun ski for cruising. Did not seem to like getting on higher edge angles and once I got past his and just let them do their thing with minimal input, they worked much better. Would I like to take them out for a day in the west in conditions for which they were designed, you bet I would, but, there are 3 or 4 other skies I can say the same thing about.

 

Ultimately, skiers need to buy them and they have a lot of competition.


Many ski manufacturers go to extreme lengths to design graphics for their skis that some people love and others hate. Ski Logik chose a rather original route that few seem to dislike. Will that encourage consumers to buy a ski that is otherwise just so so...I doubt it.

 

I do however totally disagree with your characterization of the skis as " a fun ski for cruising".  I have not skied the Chariots but I do know a young very aggressive skier who owns them and loves them. I will simply say that he is better than 95% of the skiers I have ever seen. He does not cruise, he flies! I cannot ski at his level, but I do not cruise either. My preferred terrain are steep, tight eastern glades that are always bumpy. I get out after every snow storm. As mentioned in my previous post I own the Howitzers and in my opinion, I couldn't ask for better in those conditions. Are there better skis out there? Probably. Does that really matter? No, because they are damn good.

 

Again, I cannot speak to the Chariots, but as far skiing at high edge angles (and gripping on icy steeps) my son who is certainly a better skier than I, and generates very high edge angles, was amazed by their edge grip.

 

Just my 2 cents.

post #42 of 48
Quote:
Originally Posted by nolo View Post

Point taken, Noodler. This forum is not my usual haunt. There was a good buzz about these skis at SIA and obviously I was quite taken with their looks. I didn't do the ski test so can't comment on their performance, but its website states:

 

"Realskiers.com, which accepts no advertising revenues, awarded Ski Logik its coveted Overall Ski of the Year award, placing Ski Logik in first place in performance out of 286 skis reviewed." It's not clear which model they're talking about. 

 

David and Mariella Mazzarella have offered to create an EpicSki for us. Do you think we'll have many entries in that contest?


Comment on Real Skiers: IMO useful place for new skiers to intermediates, fairly sensible about skis that will work for same demographic. But scarcely objective about some brands, although I can't tell whether it's from very small enthusiatic test samples (their scores for Stocklis can get silly high, as they did for the original SS's) or HH contingent's adoration of 1) narrower carvers and 2) Anything made by Head. 

 

You may also have noticed that they give lower scores to fatter skis, regardless of how highly regarded they are elsewhere, apparently because in their minds, fat skis simply cannot do the things a midfat does as well, even if it's be relaxing or slide turns (notice they don't score categories like float). So when they give Ski Logik a "Ski of the Year" award, I'm thinking first that either it really does do everything a superb midfat can do, but also floats (possible) or they're kinda naive about the whole indie scene. I notice that they tend to include one popular "real" indie a season (this year Armada, I think maybe 4-FRNT a while ago), but mainly for that slot favor several upper niche botiques (Anton, Sterling, and now Ski Logik) that make exotics. Then I get curious why they haven't tested any of Ski Logik's more popular competitors, like Folsom or Wagner that make fully custom skis to your specs, including your own topsheet art, or Prior, that makes set designs but you can supply topsheet art, to some very popular indies like PM Gear or Moment or Movement that have big followings regionally and spend a lot of effort at cutting edge design and tech. Some of these indie brands do decently at the Olympics, incidentally, so maybe not just my deviant take on their performance. 

 

Then I'd like to know a lot more about who actually tested it (sample size, location in the country, skis carried by the shop in the likely case the tester owns/runs a shop) before I go assume they are The Second Coming. More likely they're nice skis that don't place a lot of demands on the skier, and have inlay that may or may not appeal. BTW, you want serious inlay by serious artists? Go check out some drawing room tables at Versailles or some 18th C. Japanese lacquer boxes. But hey, if my best drawing of a face still looks about like it did at age 6, then someone who can get a nose, mouth, and eyes in approximately the right place must make it worthwhile to pay extra, huh? Works for Rossi, as long as the faces have big eyes...

 

duck.gif

post #43 of 48

The review by RS is a monkey wrench in the fine machineryrolleyes.gif of ski evaluation.

I think all you gain using reviews  by a reviewing business is the loss of accountability, as in: who is testing? After all, when a testers cred is the only substance of a review, wouldn't you want to know who it is and how they are qualified to make a judgement?

 

Therefore, a review by an amateur tester who is a known awesome skier is much more valuable than some unknown on RealSkier, IMO. We have high cred reviewers available to us already.

 

Out of that idea, I have to say, I personally, IMO, thought RealSkier was not real and not credible. S. Jim and Phil, TC and Dawg, and many others have far more insight and info to offer.

post #44 of 48

I find the limitations of Real Skiers to be there too. RS has qualified shop skiers do their testing then quantifies the results for their ratings. If you look as the ski scores over the past few seasons, the highest scoring skis were never "Ski of the year" winners, I just don't understand the methods. 

post #45 of 48

Ski of the year may  be some advertising concept (more than an engineering contest) like a ski that changed things, or a ski that made everyone smile, or a ski that put it all together, or a ski that looked very different. kinda like car of the year, an award that seems to get passed around, very political, more for bringing attention to the industry as a whole and passing favors around. For cars, if the objective value of the car was the only consideration, I expect that the same few car brands would win for about 30 years.

 

Ski of the Year: (post yours)

S-7, Rossignol produced this revolutionary ski without flaws the first year out, making rocker a household word, and then putting the skis on a large population of skiers in just two seasons, and blowing the mind of most of those skiers.

(can prologic really compete with the value and impact of the S7 just on the basis of marquetry in the top sheet? I think NOT)

 

So you know where I'm coming from, often being harsh and critical: if a ski maker has something new to announce about a ski they are releasing, they should be scared sh&%$less to introduce it here to us, a not gullible crowd, full of: "ooooooo, that's pretty...., and it turns?"

 

post #46 of 48

Those in glass houses should not throw stones.  I have seen Peter Kealty and some of his contacts at industry trade fairs for many years now.  BTW, they rip.  They are probably a little more technical (that is, bent toward PSIA and race types) more than most that post here.  Actually, I find the Real Skiers reviews to be much more useful and objective, than say, SKI Magazine or some of the other online reviews. Sometimes, I think that reviews on epicski, though interesting at times, really are only a snapshot of a few skis, rather than that of in context of the whole industry picture.  Sometimes the posts on this Forum are bizarre at best, and there are a few of the regulars that are real "wingnuts", that do nothing but whine.  IMO, it is important to check a lot of sources before you develop an general idea about a piece of equipment, and they demo it yourself to confirm your thoughts.  Any review is just an idea of a tester or group of testers thoughts, that are designed to give you an idea about the product, it isn't neccesarily gospel.  Are any of us going to agree with every review that we read?  Of course not!  We all have our personal preferences and biases about what we are looking for in skis.

 

For what its worth.  I looked at the Ski Logik stuff at SIA this year, it is beautiful, and even though it's made in China, I am really excited to ski it at the upcoming on snow events.  I am rooting for them to ski very well.  If so, great.  If not, best of luck to them, and hope that they improve in the future.

post #47 of 48


 

Quote:
Originally Posted by coolhand View Post

Those in glass houses should not throw stones.  I have seen Peter Kealty and some of his contacts at industry trade fairs for many years now.  BTW, they rip.  They are probably a little more technical (that is, bent toward PSIA and race types) more than most that post here.  Actually, I find the Real Skiers reviews to be much more useful and objective, than say, SKI Magazine or some of the other online reviews. Sometimes, I think that reviews on epicski, though interesting at times, really are only a snapshot of a few skis, rather than that of in context of the whole industry picture.  Sometimes the posts on this Forum are bizarre at best, and there are a few of the regulars that are real "wingnuts", that do nothing but whine.  IMO, it is important to check a lot of sources before you develop an general idea about a piece of equipment, and they demo it yourself to confirm your thoughts.  Any review is just an idea of a tester or group of testers thoughts, that are designed to give you an idea about the product, it isn't neccesarily gospel.  Are any of us going to agree with every review that we read?  Of course not!  We all have our personal preferences and biases about what we are looking for in skis.

 

For what its worth.  I looked at the Ski Logik stuff at SIA this year, it is beautiful, and even though it's made in China, I am really excited to ski it at the upcoming on snow events.  I am rooting for them to ski very well.  If so, great.  If not, best of luck to them, and hope that they improve in the future.

 

There were many thoughts that came to mind as I read this post. Instead, I decided to keep it simple:

 

BRAVO!

 

P.S. Try the Howitzers. Great fun!

post #48 of 48

 

http://powdermagazin.de/#/6

On the Powderball skis, they have used the logo of the Rabbit On The Roof skis (from Chamonix).

On their website they claim they can produce every ski imaginable. I wonder if I can order a pair of Rossignols and a pair of Dynastars?

What they are doing during the long China summers? Made in China Louis Vuitton bags?

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